Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) -- 2018-19 Still The Champs Edition - Pt. 9

[PB12]

Let’s move honest here. You keep bringing up the 82 games thing. I don’t think there was a single player on the Capitals this season who played at a high level for 82 plus games. That’s just unsustainable for a human being to do. A lot of our top players took games off this year. It happens almost every season on just about every team.

Orlov should definitely not be the scapegoat after this season. Why you’re up in arms over a guy playing top minutes making $5 million is beyond me. Hell, guys on the 2nd pair have made more money per year than that recently. As others have stated it’s Niskanens age combined with his salary AND his decrease in play. It’s a lot less of a risk to move on from him than it would be Holtby, who is probably number two on the list of potential salary cap casualties.

Top minutes don't mean **** to me. What means more to me is what is done in those minutes. Which means taking care of the puck and and protecting goaltender. People make mistakes,they have their struggles. But Orlov needs to be more consistant. For Holtby and Samsonov in the future.

 

[PB12]

I guess what i'm tired is we keep lowering the bar for Orlov. At the end of the season there is always some sort of excuse. We need to raise the bar not lower. This guy should be a lot better than he is right now.

 

[Raikkonen]

Well, Ive been thinking about trading Nisky today... And if youre to trade him now the return will certainly be better.

 

[RandyHolt]

I expected more out of Orlov... but he has been doing heavy lifting, and may be slightly overpaid but whatevs.

He has the offensive talent... but why can't he rack up a few more points? Maybe he is stuck playing shutdown D, or does he lack offensive awareness, or what.

 

[PB12]

Well, Ive been thinking about trading Nisky today... And if youre to trade him now the return will certainly be better.

I'd trade Nisky for the right price.

 

[traparatus]

Cut the **** everyone! If 5.1M dollars isn't a lot for Orlov. Then 5.7M isn't alot for Nisky. You could make the case that this has been Nisky's only bad year under this contract, and everyone is acting like Max Kellerman. You guys act like Nisky's career is over. The guy is only 32. Its up there, but he isn't done. Why does everyone have a love affair for Orlov. Please tell me. It can't be his defense. It can't be his offense. Is it because of his age?! If thats the reason we got some serious issues on this forum.

Orlov transitions the puck effectively by either passing or skating. He is paid appropriately.

Concern about Niskanen's future stems from watching him get physically slower at a somewhat alarming rate over the course of the last 2+ seasons. I have no idea if that is a permanent change or it's something that he can improve on through surgery/training but I don't get your outrage at people been concerned about it.

Also, after seen how devastating Kempny's injury was to our defensive structure, I'm in no way ready to anoint any of our defensive prospects ready to fill Orlov's shoes. On the other hand, I can imagine Jensen been able to handle 20min a night on the 2nd pair. Still leaves us short a RD but at least it's a 3rd pair D.

 

[um]

Trading Niskanen makes a lot of sense if Connolly and Hagelin both leave (or even just Connolly) and the offers for Burakovsky are underwhelming... which is a pretty likely scenario.

I'd prefer to keep Niskanen, but we need offensive depth more than defensive depth.

 

[artilector]

I guess what i'm tired is we keep lowering the bar for Orlov. At the end of the season there is always some sort of excuse. We need to raise the bar not lower. This guy should be a lot better than he is right now.

I'm not sure I've seen a more ridiculous bias against a player on this board in recent times, congrats.

I just saw Niskanen, Orpik, and even Carlson struggle to keep up with a fast team in playoffs, but let's single out a guy that actually played pretty decent (by no means perfect, etc).

If we're calling Orlov's contract a problem, then by this measure we might need to replace the entire Caps defense --except Kempny, maybe Jensen, and cost-controlled guys.

Btw, as far as points, sure, Orlov looks like he should be able to get more with his moves, but his "contract-normalized" ES production (28 pts for 5M) is quite similar to Carlson's 37 pts for 8M. And consider that Orlov's partner was Niskanen, who had a tough year. Fwiw, in playoffs (small sample, ok), Orlov led all Caps D men with 3 pts at ES (Carlson had 1) -- in fact Orlov tied Kuz for 3rd most ES points behind Ovi and Backstrom (laugh or cry).

 

[Sam Spade]

Am I the only one who thought Orlov was one of our best dmen in the playoffs?

 

[PB12]

I'm not sure I've seen a more ridiculous bias against a player on this board in recent times, congrats.

I just saw Niskanen, Orpik, and even Carlson struggle to keep up with a fast team in playoffs, but let's single out a guy that actually played pretty decent (by no means perfect, etc).

If we're calling Orlov's contract a problem, then by this measure we might need to replace the entire Caps defense --except Kempny, maybe Jensen, and cost-controlled guys.

Btw, as far as points, sure, Orlov looks like he should be able to get more with his moves, but his "contract-normalized" ES production (28 pts for 5M) is quite similar to Carlson's 37 pts for 8M. And consider that Orlov's partner was Niskanen, who had a tough year. Fwiw, in playoffs (small sample, ok), Orlov led all Caps D men with 3 pts at ES (Carlson had 1) -- in fact Orlov tied Kuz for 3rd most ES points behind Ovi and Backstrom (laugh or cry).

Bias?! You want to talk about a bias?! How about this constant love affair with this guy who is taking up a decent chunk of Cap space. Yes i hope this playoff series starts something. You guys want to believe because you love this guy. Your calling me an idiot because i'm saying that this forum's binkie still needs to improve. I heard the same excuse last year as well. "Oh he was good last playoffs". What happens? He's back turning over pucks. I want to believe. I do. But the guy isn't a kid anymore. He is 28. He should be in the prime of his career right now. Its frustrating because he can be so much better.

 

[Bieronymus Trotz]

Having to fill Niskanen's minutes in the event he's traded seems daunting, but how much does his effectiveness need to decline for the team to be in that situation anyway (while still paying Niskanen $5.75 million)?

What's interesting is that GMBM said when asked the other day that he saw Jensen as a #4-5, which suggests he doesn't see Jensen as someone to fill Niskanen's current role.

 

[Raikkonen]

What's interesting is that GMBM said when asked the other day that he saw Jensen as a #4-5, which suggests he doesn't see Jensen as someone to fill Niskanen's current role.

Carlson is #1 + Kempny #4-5 playing as #2
Orlov is #3
Jensen is #4-5 again

Looks realistic?

Add some prospects of top-4 potential and it should work... But the depth is lessened

 

[artilector]

Bias?! You want to talk about a bias?! How about this constant love affair with this guy who is taking up a decent chunk of Cap space. Yes i hope this playoff series starts something. You guys want to believe because you love this guy. Your calling me an idiot because i'm saying that this forum's binkie still needs to improve. I heard the same excuse last year as well. "Oh he was good last playoffs". What happens? He's back turning over pucks. I want to believe. I do. But the guy isn't a kid anymore. He is 28. He should be in the prime of his career right now. Its frustrating because he can be so much better.

Who has a "love affair" with Orlov? I don't think there's anybody here that doesn't acknowledge that Orlov has faults, or that he's a "high event" defenseman. You are tilting at windmills.

Re: "he can be so much better", how the hell do you know? The conservative assumption would be that he is what he is at this point basically, take it or leave it. It's like you have this strange picture of everybody loving Orlov (not really) because of high potential (says who) that he is not realizing, while being paid exorbitant money (which he is not).

It's especially strange to try to single out Orlov to throw him under the bus after a playoff exit where he wasn't even close to being the problem, unlike plenty of other players.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I wonder if they trade Niskanen if Priskie would reconsider signing here? Not saying that's a reason to do it but just wondering out loud if that changes the unit economics for Priskie.

 

[PB12]

Who has a "love affair" with Orlov? I don't think there's anybody here that doesn't acknowledge that Orlov has faults, or that he's a "high event" defenseman. You are tilting at windmills.

Re: "he can be so much better", how the hell do you know? The conservative assumption would be that he is what he is at this point basically, take it or leave it. It's like you have this strange picture of everybody loving Orlov (not really) because of high potential (says who) that he is not realizing, while being paid exorbitant money (which he is not).

It's especially strange to try to single out Orlov to throw him under the bus after a playoff exit where he wasn't even close to being the problem, unlike plenty of other players.

Its amazing people are willing to ghrow out an 82 game season. The guy still makes peewee mistakes on defense. Again point to the playoffs all you want. People did that last year. The guy either needs to stop turning over the puck or put up more points and become a Green or Carlson type player.

 

[Calicaps]

Am I the only one who thought Orlov was one of our best dmen in the playoffs?

no.

Its amazing people are willing to ghrow out an 82 game season. The guy still makes peewee mistakes on defense. Again point to the playoffs all you want. People did that last year. The guy either needs to stop turning over the puck or put up more points and become a Green or Carlson type player.

the playoffs are what matter most to this franchise and this fanbase. the RS is about getting into the playoffs in decent position. nothing Orlov did compromised that. that the whole team played poorly for about 2/3 of the year should also matter in how you assess any individual. but beyond that, after the deadline, he was one of the best players on the team. ultimately, when the real games started, he outperformed most of his teammates. i'll take that for #3D anytime.

 

[Raikkonen]

Carlson didnt set the world on fire this time around and he even acknowledged it himself.

Orlov did good enough.

Did you see anything of game breaking from Niskanen, Orpik, Jensen or Djoos? Siege? Not really.

So Orlov is offensive minded top-4 dman who can hold the fort defensively. Fine. They dont grow on trees.

 

[Raikkonen]

Vrana agreed to go to Worlds as far as I read. Apparently he isnt injured much.

 

[Raikkonen]

Orlov-Carlson
Siege-Jensen
Kempny-Priskie

Looks weaker but could be potentially better. One day.

100% should give enough cap to bank before the deadline. Even enough for good middle-6 F from the market.

 

[txpd]

Orlov-Carlson
Siege-Jensen
Kempny-Priskie.

That is miss the playoffs good. Yikes.

I saw the MacLellan presser today. His 4-5 comment on Jensen and the way they use Kempny is what made me wonder if maybe its Orlov that might get moved.

There was a time that Orlov was a dynamic player even without the pp toi. This season he scored 3 games in only 2 games with the last coming on Jan 20th. Hell, Niskanen had 8 goals.

None of the Caps young D are able to handle Orlov's even strength assignments but that one thing is all they have to fill if he goes. Niskanen meanwhile is on pk1. Carlson is on pk2.

I think it pays to be open minded here. It might be Niskanen but I have a hard time believing that the Caps would part with both Niskanen and Orpik in the same off season without bringing back a legit top end pk defenseman.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'm not sure I've seen a more ridiculous bias against a player on this board in recent times, congrats.

I just saw Niskanen, Orpik, and even Carlson struggle to keep up with a fast team in playoffs, but let's single out a guy that actually played pretty decent (by no means perfect, etc).

If we're calling Orlov's contract a problem, then by this measure we might need to replace the entire Caps defense --except Kempny, maybe Jensen, and cost-controlled guys.

Btw, as far as points, sure, Orlov looks like he should be able to get more with his moves, but his "contract-normalized" ES production (28 pts for 5M) is quite similar to Carlson's 37 pts for 8M. And consider that Orlov's partner was Niskanen, who had a tough year. Fwiw, in playoffs (small sample, ok), Orlov led all Caps D men with 3 pts at ES (Carlson had 1) -- in fact Orlov tied Kuz for 3rd most ES points behind Ovi and Backstrom (laugh or cry).

I’d like to see more from Orlov. The last two years (regular season) have been flat and regression years IMO. Had a good playoffs last year as did many people.

His development has seemingly stalled. Maybe this is all we get, who knows?

 

[PB12]

Well we got our first piece of offseason SPECULATION. And there is a reason why i put speculation in all caps. Look who it is.

Another bad playoff defeat was pinned on this poor guy. Honestly, Jake Gardiner may not be the BEST D-man on the planet, but at times (and usually) he is definite top 4. The Oilers will be all over him...especially if Hunter and DJ Smith do turn out to be the guys. The Leafs will be left trying to replace him for less...won't be easy. The Blackhawks also will be keeping tabs...as will others (Montreal, Ottawa, NJ, Caps)

HockeyBuzz.com - Eklund - Offseason 2019 Rumor Preview Week Begins With UFA's; Mon's Buzz

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'd trade Nisky for the right price.

I’d trade almost anyone on the roster for the right price.

 

[Calicaps]

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