Post-Game Talk: Capitals @ Rangers - December 20

[DanielBrassard]

Tampa hasn't scored like they can but their possession numbers are still very good. Detroit has improved with a healthy Dats. And if the Rangers make some tweaks it's tough to completely dismiss them. But yeah the east isn't exactly a powerhouse.

 

[InwoodBlueNYC]

Hey check it out.


There is no narrative. Dan Girardi's value on the PK does not outweigh his horrible defense at even strength. He's garbage.

I don't listen to NY sports radio because they do not cover hockey. So I listen to Montreal and Toronto sports radio. And all the commentators up there, who follow hockey 24/7, like Girardi and think he's a pretty good defenseman.
I think he is on ice so many minutes, in situations where the forwards are not backchacking, and his partner is getting caught out going forward too often, that his numbers might look bad. But one on one, I believe Dan G is one of the best defenders in the league and a valuable asset.

 

[InwoodBlueNYC]

Girardi IS a problem on this team and I'll tell you why.

McDonagh-Girardi together on the top pairing has been one of the WORST pairings in the league this year -- they've allowed a ridiculously high amount of high danger scoring chances. Their corsi has been among the league-worst for D pairings as well (which is a basic concept--they are allowing more shot attempts against than the Rangers are taking... All the players on the ice, including Girardi, are part of this issue, but Girardi also has this issue with other skaters not just McDonagh).

Girardi isn't a useless pylon--but at his contract and his spot on this team as a #1 defenseman is, he BECOMES a major problem... his best asset is penalty killing, and his best position on this team is the 3rd pairing.

Staal is behind Yandle and McDonagh, which also puts him on the 3rd pairing.

Both of these guys TOGETHER on the same team, and even more so the SAME PAIRING is a major problem.

That's what we're trying to explain

McIlrath has been on fire with Yandle, and McDonagh has played better with ANY OTHER DEFENDER except Girardi... That essentially pushes Girardi out of the top 4.

McDonagh-Klein
Yandle-McIlrath

I really really am trying to understand this, but I cannot. I don't know if we are watching the same game or watching with tinted glasses....OK....maybe we should switch around the pairings...I dunno...I am frustrated as hell..and all we can do is write about it and discuss it but we cannot do anything. We just have to leave it all the AV & Company.

 

[Mordeth]

Regarding Girardi, the numbers say he is a bad defenseman. The eye test can both say hes bad and good. I think honestly its a mix. I don't think all the goals against while he is on the ice is his fault. Many times its McD who's up pinching when he shouldn't. Very often Girardi is on his own trying to prevent a goal on a breakaway, 2on1's or similar. And its quite unfair to judge him on those, when hes actually trying to be responsible.

This defense thing has gone on all year, its only Henriks "fault" that we aren were we are in terms of points and wins, considering how he stole a few matches. I would say him, Zucc and Lindberg, who all had good starts, they stole quite a few matches. The defense has been bad all year, and its not only the D's, its the forwards and the system too. So to blame all this on one or two players is simply wrong. And clearly Girardi wasnt the sole culprint, seeing as we are still letting in many many goals after he got injured. Sure, you could say hes a part of the problem, or a part of the solution, bit this is a team. One player is not gonna change that. Not even Tanner Glass will change that.

 

[InwoodBlueNYC]

https://6goaliedefense.wordpress.com/2015/12/21/nyr-game-day-review-dec-20th-2015/

Sorry this one's late. It's Christmas.

Thanks for this. Good article.

 

[Esa 10]

The problem right now is when 1 player makes a mistake the whole 5 man unit tends to break down. Unless Hank makes a great save, they're toast. And it's often the forwards. In man to man the D aren't required to be in high scoring areas.

Take the 1st goal yesterday. Everything starts with Etem's error. For some reason he leaned toward the other side of the ice that was covered by Glass already. Etem lost himself in the middle and allowed his point man to walk in on goal.

This led to Hayes leaving Williams and moving toward the approaching Caps' D. Hayes had to block the shot once he did that, but obviously failed.

Boyle was alone in front with 2 forwards. He had his original guy tied up, but Williams was free. Slight hesitation, Chorney takes the shot and Boyle can't stop Williams from tipping the puck past Henrik.

Summers was skating around the zone with some Cap, but it's technically what he's supposed to do in this system.

They depend on a lot of young forwards getting it right. A guy like Etem who's often out of the line-up. Defensemen whose heads don't seem to be always in the game.

Hopefully this team will get their defensive game together, but just because last year's group executed man to man doesn't mean this edition can do it well also.

 

[lilphildub]

And that's mean while it's just dandy that Girardis fanclub are doing the I told you so dance with him being hurt, right?

It looks like its one or two posters who are saying "told you so". Not sure where you're getting this fan club idea from. there's other posters saying Girardi is valuable and missed to the team but not with blind love for the guy. Unless the second anyone says "Girardi might have some value to this team" automatically inserts them in the fan club. If so then make me the dam president of the fan club.

I think Girardi would make the defense better in the lineup by him just simply replacing Summers

Where my fan club people at?!

 

[InwoodBlueNYC]

The problem right now is when 1 player makes a mistake the whole 5 man unit tends to break down. Unless Hank makes a great save, they're toast. And it's often the forwards. In man to man the D aren't required to be in high scoring areas.

Take the 1st goal yesterday. Everything starts with Etem's error. For some reason he leaned toward the other side of the ice that was covered by Glass already. Etem lost himself in the middle and allowed his point man to walk in on goal.

This led to Hayes leaving Williams and moving toward the approaching Caps' D. Hayes had to block the shot once he did that, but obviously failed.

Boyle was alone in front with 2 forwards. He had his original guy tied up, but Williams was free. Slight hesitation, Chorney takes the shot and Boyle can't stop Williams from tipping the puck past Henrik.

Summers was skating around the zone with some Cap, but it's technically what he's supposed to do in this system.

They depend on a lot of young forwards getting it right. A guy like Etem who's often out of the line-up. Defensemen whose heads don't seem to be always in the game.

Hopefully this team will get their defensive game together, but just because last year's group executed man to man doesn't mean this edition can do it well also.

Very good analysis. And it's pretty much what I have been saying (but you much more intelligently). That is that the problem is not entirely Girardi, or even Staal, or the D-pairings. It's a breakdown from the forwards not covering defensively, or tracking back, or getting caught, or just plain poor decision making.
And it's left to Hank to clean up the mess. Having Girardi and Klein back will make a major improvement, you will see.

 

[InwoodBlueNYC]

The problem right now is when 1 player makes a mistake the whole 5 man unit tends to break down. Unless Hank makes a great save, they're toast. And it's often the forwards. In man to man the D aren't required to be in high scoring areas.

Take the 1st goal yesterday. Everything starts with Etem's error. For some reason he leaned toward the other side of the ice that was covered by Glass already. Etem lost himself in the middle and allowed his point man to walk in on goal.

This led to Hayes leaving Williams and moving toward the approaching Caps' D. Hayes had to block the shot once he did that, but obviously failed.

Boyle was alone in front with 2 forwards. He had his original guy tied up, but Williams was free. Slight hesitation, Chorney takes the shot and Boyle can't stop Williams from tipping the puck past Henrik.

Summers was skating around the zone with some Cap, but it's technically what he's supposed to do in this system.

They depend on a lot of young forwards getting it right. A guy like Etem who's often out of the line-up. Defensemen whose heads don't seem to be always in the game.

Hopefully this team will get their defensive game together, but just because last year's group executed man to man doesn't mean this edition can do it well also.

It looks like its one or two posters who are saying "told you so". Not sure where you're getting this fan club idea from. there's other posters saying Girardi is valuable and missed to the team but no with blind love for the guy. Unless the second anyone says "Girardi might have some value to this team" automatically inserts them in the fan club. If so then make me the dam president of the fan club.

I think Girardi would make the defense better in the lineup by him just simply replacing Summers

Where my fan club people at?!

Here. I am here. OK, maybe not a full paid up card carrying member but I truly feel he is one of the better defensemen in the league and we are certainly much better off with him in the lineup than out.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

How is this turning into a Girardi thread when he isn't even playing?!?!! How about we talk about how crappy the rest of the team has been

There are no narratives

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

This game proves the flaw in advanced stats? Really? The fact that the two current teams that are the closest to becoming dynasties and have combined for 5 of the last 6 Cups are great at advanced stats does not prove the usefulness of them, this one game does? Really?

Nope!

Your confusing prove and support.

And then we get back to old headache of Reggie saying that perhaps the professionals have far stronger analytics than the fans, but that never goes anywhere.

 

[Holocene]

I keep waiting for the turning point game. I hope this was it.

 

[Machinehead]

It's ridiculous to say we're giving up goals because Girardi is out.

We had 31 games with Girardi in the lineup where we were bottom 5 in every defensive metric and Lundqvist just happened to be stopping 96% of the ES shots he was facing.

McDonagh-Klein
Yandle-McIlrath

That's an average top 4 and that's what needs to happen when Klein and Girardi are back. Hide Staal and Girardi on the 3rd pair for now.

 

[Chimpradamus]

It's ridiculous to say we're giving up goals because Girardi is out.

We had 31 games with Girardi in the lineup where we were bottom 5 in every defensive metric and Lundqvist just happened to be stopping 96% of the ES shots he was facing.

McDonagh-Klein
Yandle-McIlrath

That's an average top 4 and that's what needs to happen when Klein and Girardi are back. Hide Staal and Girardi on the 3rd pair for now.

The only problem would be that Staal and Girardi together would be the worst defensive pairing in hockey and $11m down the drain. That would be like squaring a turnover machine into some kind of nitro fueled turnover machine of mass destruction, where the footage of them two playing together would be shown by dictators in their interrogation camps to get prisoners talking.

You can hide one albatross on a team and maybe get away with it, but two? On defense? Not if you want to win hockey games.

 

[Ail]

Guys stop talking about Girardi, he didn't even play in this game. If he did they would have scored 6 goals not 7 and he would have been on the ice for at least 4, but only directly responsible for 3.

Stupid narratives! Even though Girardi's brother and dad started this entire conversation by taking shots at McIlrath (no narratives or agendas there, nope, totally reasonable), who has been the Rangers best defensemen for weeks, your bias is unnecessarily making Girardi a victim of unwarranted criticism. Shame on you!

 

[Problematique]

Hide Staal and Girardi on the 3rd pair for now.

That would have to be the highest paid 3rd pairing in history.

 

[Ola]

The only problem would be that Staal and Girardi together would be the worst defensive pairing in hockey and $11m down the drain. That would be like squaring a turnover machine into some kind of nitro fueled turnover machine of mass destruction, where the footage of them two playing together would be shown by dictators in their interrogation camps to get prisoners talking.

You can hide one albatross on a team and maybe get away with it, but two? On defense? Not if you want to win hockey games.

Or it wouldn't be.