Post-Game Talk: Capitals @ Oilers 10/22/14 9:30 PM Caps Lose 3-2

[Brian23]

like I said after the Florida game this is where we see if trotz can figure out how to get this group of offensive minded scoring players past a tight defensive team like Montreal back in the playoffs. That is what teams are doing to us again.

And he can't prove that in one game. As is always said, the regular season is almost nothing like the post season.

 

[txpd]

I am not seeing teams playing the montreal rope a dope this season. that is certainly not what Edmonton was doing. florida maybe.

I am not sure how you break the nhl trap. I think the established way to beat a trap team is not challenge the trap and dump the puck in. don't give the trap team the turnovers they need to establish offense and use your skill to score a goal.

 

[Halpysback*]

Seriously? 1st regulation loss in 6 games and that is the straw that broke the camel's back? How'd you possibly last this long...?

Against Deadmonton... it's the fact that this is the same crap as always. It's the same old caps management (with an internally promoted GM) that puts together teams that get flushed out before the ECF and hires coaches with zero feel for chemistry or roster composition. No point watching the team getting beat by cellar dwellars while having Jay Beagle twerk on the 2nd line for the next 3 years (the minimum Trotz is gonna get as long as he's at least somewhat average) as the organization does its best to ruin whatever prospects it didn't give away for players whom it then immediately proceeded to ruin. Every man has his limit. Tolliver, Liberati0n, DynamoAO, Gloves, Langway, you name it. So do I. Enough is enough.

 

[SimplySensational]

Besides the first couple games of Fehr being put on Gang Green, they've been awful.

Even the Florida game, they were the ones that kept getting stuck their own zone in the 3rd.

 

[strungout]

Bye!!

 

[Hivemind]

Halpy's been gone for a couple years now, anyway.

The "green line" magic was probably a product of circumstances. Teams are likely not rolling their lines against the Trotz Caps the way they were against the Oates Caps. That means different matchups for the "green line" and possibly the ability to shine in the microcosm of Oates' hair-brained schemes.

It's likely a matter of Chimmer and Ward just playing better, and someone fitting in at that center spot. Move Fehr back up to the top line, Beagle to the 4th line, and Kuz to center the 3rd. Work any other kinks out from there.

They were a rare case of a line that benefitted from Oates. Oates loved to cycle on the wall, and they were the one line that could do it well. Chimera and Ward haven't been as effective this year. Ward had a career year last year, and neither of them are spring chickens. People were putting the blame on Laich, but I think it's fairly obvious that those two are going to have bad games. Hopefully not as frequently as they have to begin this season, but they won't be what they were last year or under Boudreau, at least not every night.

What Edmonton was doing defensively certainly didn't help that line, either. They were collapsing low in the zone and bringing numbers to the strong side of the ice. They were trying to break up the cycle, at the expense of their coverage higher in the zone. The whole team needed to utilize the points last night, but it didn't really happen much.

I'm a little worried about Kuznetsov between them. Kuznetsov likes to make plays in transition and in open-ice. He likes to carry the puck and move around the offensive zone. I'm not sure if he's suited for the cycle game that makes 25/42 effective.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Plenty of room on the Semin bandwagon down in Carolina!

oh please please please.....

 

[Langway]

Huh. Those limits had more to do with self-control than anything team related.

They are what they are and Trotz isn't going to change everything overnight. I'd hope he improves their habits as time passes but we'll see. Johansson's game has improved, albeit still probably not enough to be considered a nugget. It's a little early to conclude he'll actively seek to do harm as past coaches have. Certainly there remains a degree of organizational entitlement and laziness that has to be pushed against.

Wilson's return will help some of the forward depth concerns but the mix will remain questionable either way. They have a way to go in gelling up front and translating their possession advantage into separation ability. Hopefully that advantage over time will lead to taking a clearer look at their structure, timing and decision-making and also evaluating these forwards more strenuously.

 

[Dream Big]

Since there is no other thread and GDT aren't started until the morning of the game I'll tag this on here. If a mod wants to start a game day thread early I guess it could be moved.


Team building in Calgary, Alberta, Canada

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos/snapshots-capscurling-10-23-14

 

[BobRouse]

Meh, I don't read much into those stats.

For crying out loud, the 'Skins offense and defense both are in the top 10 and we're one of the worst teams in the league.

I'm going by what I saw and I don't think we outplayed them by much. 3rd period, definitely. But we were also desperate because were were down by 1. They did a good job keeping the shots outside and they got the W.

First off tycoon I repsect what you saw. I saw it differently. We by far out chanced them and had several point blank chances. If a couple went in then most would be singing a different tune about the game.

Now as far as the Skins thing goes. You are right. Those stats are crud.

But SOG, Corsi, Fenwick have undisputably proven to be valuable and a carry a strong correlation to wins and losses in the NHL. Those NFL stats do not for various reasons.

There is a reason why NHL teams are hiring bloggers and analytics dudes left and right.

But there is plenty within their control that they still do not give proper attention. They don't crash the net enough and they don't really break down defenses much with sustained attacking outside of dishing back to the point men. Anyone can do that. Grinders can do that. The RDs are really good so there's some sense in it but the forwards on whole remain unimpressive from a habit standpoint. Their most effective 5-on-5 forward is a 19 year old rookie.

So, yes, tip your cap to Edmonton clogging lanes when they weren't being countered but there's plenty of things a team can control and strategize for when they have possession beyond merely having possession to begin with. That's Trotz's biggest obstacle at the moment. Team defense is largely fine--maybe even ahead of schedule--but if they're going to have the puck more they need to manage ways to be more dynamic with it. Some of that is on the players but on a fundamental level there are better habits that can be executed. Keep in mind they were ranked lower in 5-on-5 GF/60 than GA/60 last year so even with a thin blueline and Oates micromanaging Holtby the 5-on-5 offense managed to rank lower. An approach overlooking offensive fundamentals is a poor one and they've long relied way too much on individualism.

5-5 we are a very strong team this year. The stats and analytics prove that do they not? I thought you to be a believer in them.

And as far as crashing the net goes...I see us doing it. People said that same thing about the Montreal series and it was debunked by the shot charts provided by the Washington post. In fact ...I remember a certain goal in the 3rd period of Game 7 that was dissallowed b/c of crashing the net.

As TX stated...you crash the net too much and you clog up shooting lanes with your own players. Sure every team can use a prime Knuble or Holmstrom but those guys perfected the art and even then alot of times they cost their team goals b/c of their overzealousness.

I see us having the upper hand 5 on 5 this year. Over the course of 1 game it may not lead to a win but over the entire season and playoffs it bodes well.

Last year was last year. We are a different team with a different philosophy.

It's a riot to me to read. It's a long damned season. Last year it was sweating Wilson's development, this year it's Kuzy. So much worrying for nothing this early in the season.

I agree. Can't get too worked up over a single game over even a series of them. There will be hot and cold streaks for every team where they get the bounces or they don't.

People are still damaged by Oates.

 

[artilector]

Huh. Those limits had more to do with self-control than anything team related.

They are what they are and Trotz isn't going to change everything overnight. I'd hope he improves their habits as time passes but we'll see. Johansson's game has improved, albeit still probably not enough to be considered a nugget. It's a little early to conclude he'll actively seek to do harm as past coaches have. Certainly there remains a degree of organizational entitlement and laziness that has to be pushed against.

Wilson's return will help some of the forward depth concerns but the mix will remain questionable either way. They have a way to go in gelling up front and translating their possession advantage into separation ability. Hopefully that advantage over time will lead to taking a clearer look at their structure, timing and decision-making and also evaluating these forwards more strenuously.

Yeah, let's see what Trotz can do over a season.

There are a lot of things that look objectively better under him -- shots against, generally better zone exits, and reasonable personnel decisions.

Caps' struggles against quick, scrappy teams -- well, part of that is personnel, and the other part -- let's see what adjustments he makes.

 

[Ajax1995]

Against Deadmonton...

That Oilers team right before this game beat a Tampa team that most feel is a decent amount better than the Caps. They aren't that bad. And it took Scrivens being the best player on the ice to do it. It's hockey, it happens.

But if it is that bothersome then enjoy your hiatus.

 

[tycoonheart]

Edmonton is the Jacksonville of NHL. They're terrible.

 

[Capitlols]

? They pretty much outplayed them for 60 minutes

No they didn't. They played great in the 3rd, but struggled to do much offensively through the first two periods. All versus a horrific defense and terrible goalie.

One of the biggest issues the past few seasons is giving up a goal within seconds of scoring one. I'm hoping Trotz can address that lack of focus.

 

[Langway]

5-5 we are a very strong team this year. The stats and analytics prove that do they not? I thought you to be a believer in them.

I am but it's also only six games so we'll see. As far as the eye test goes, I'm not all that impressed by their baseline level of play. It's safe, it's more sound but it's still not all that hard to play against beyond shot suppression. It may be enough in the East but I question their timing and explosiveness beyond their defensive structure. How much that improves will be a big part in determining whether they're for real for not IMO. The only strong possession team they've played thus far as a measuring stick for the most part was Boston and it took a really strong first period from Holtby before they found their game and Boston sort of spaced out thereafter. Vancouver and Calgary should be decent tests, especially being on the road. (That Florida team, btw, is quietly top 10 in Fenwick Close thus far. The Caps are fourth but, again, I'd like to see them against some of the faster teams first.)

The main thing with this team over the years is timing and cohesion attacking with the puck. Controlling the pace rather than just blindly pushing it or pushing it in a perimeter fashion. It's the hockey sense, stupid. They haven't polished up their game on the puck since they became a powerhouse. Maybe they don't have the pieces to do that overall but the attempt matters. Emphasizing work ethic over everything else is as misplaced as any of the past approaches if there's not a layer of skill and team play demanded on top of it. I see that polish away from the puck (nothing absolutely new there in terms of priorities) but I don't yet see it with it. If they had displayed more of it in the past maybe I'd be less concerned about that coming with time but I think it has to be a real area of emphasis and a change of mentality/habits.

Their 5-on-5 GF/60 is also very promising but, again, it's early and I'd like to see the results against stronger/faster teams. Once Thanksgiving rolls around and after the Islanders back-to-back we should have a better idea of where they're at.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

Plenty of room on the Semin bandwagon down in Carolina!

Interesting ongoing thread about good ol Sasha on the Canes board.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

People are still damaged by Oates.

This may be true. We've got some really mentally fragile fans right now. I guess I can understand it. I've just been through this too many times with the Caps to let it get to me like that any more.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Interesting ongoing thread about good ol Sasha on the Canes board.

Oh...I need to check this out. Sharks in the water?

 

[ChibiPooky]

This may be true. We've got some really mentally fragile fans right now. I guess I can understand it. I've just been through this too many times with the Caps to let it get to me like that any more.

Watching my team lose four consecutive Super Bowls has pretty much numbed me to everything.

 

[BobRouse]

I am but it's also only six games so we'll see. As far as the eye test goes, I'm not all that impressed by their baseline level of play. It's safe, it's more sound but it's still not all that hard to play against beyond shot suppression. It may be enough in the East but I question their timing and explosiveness beyond their defensive structure. How much that improves will be a big part in determining whether they're for real for not IMO. The only strong possession team they've played thus far as a measuring stick for the most part was Boston and it took a really strong first period from Holtby before they found their game and Boston sort of spaced out thereafter. Vancouver and Calgary should be decent tests, especially being on the road. (That Florida team, btw, is quietly top 10 in Fenwick Close thus far. The Caps are fourth but, again, I'd like to see them against some of the faster teams first.)

The main thing with this team over the years is timing and cohesion attacking with the puck. Controlling the pace rather than just blindly pushing it or pushing it in a perimeter fashion. It's the hockey sense, stupid. They haven't polished up their game on the puck since they became a powerhouse. Maybe they don't have the pieces to do that overall but the attempt matters. Emphasizing work ethic over everything else is as misplaced as any of the past approaches if there's not a layer of skill and team play demanded on top of it. I see that polish away from the puck (nothing absolutely new there in terms of priorities) but I don't yet see it with it. If they had displayed more of it in the past maybe I'd be less concerned about that coming with time but I think it has to be a real area of emphasis and a change of mentality/habits.

Their 5-on-5 GF/60 is also very promising but, again, it's early and I'd like to see the results against stronger/faster teams. Once Thanksgiving rolls around and after the Islanders back-to-back we should have a better idea of where they're at.

The sample is small for sure. But that applies to all the teams we played as well since they are differnet from last year.

The Oilers, for example, had decent possession numbers going into the game the other night despite their reputation of suckitude.

I disagree about the "hard to play against" part and the Caps not being so however.

We haven't given up 30 shots yet and don't give away much overall in terms of ES play. Were there spells where we did look sloppy (3rd period vs Monty and FLA 1st period vs Boston, NJ, SJ)? Sure.

But we have to understand that there is an opposing team out there too and they are not just going to get dominated for 60 minutes. We also have been LIGHT YEARS more physical and gritty than last couple years.

I watched the Oilers alot in their heyday. They were the most dominant team over the last 30 years I've seen. Not even they controlled play for 60 minutes and sometimes they'd get dominated by inferior teams for long stretches. I've seen them get dominated for entire games now and then even. It happens.

Anyone expecting us to completely control play for 60 minutes against even the worst of teams is setting their expecations too high. There is alot more parity now than there was back then and even then it was rare.

My eyes tell me the Caps have improved based on what I've seen. Are they LA or Chicago? No. But we have bridged the gap considerably from the past regime.

And I never bought the "low hockey IQ or stupid" mantle. Go to every teams boards and after losses they say the exact same things about their teams....goalie sucks, offensive dman needs to be traded, team IQ is low, coach doesn't play the right players or have a semblance of a "system".....this is for every other fan base. They do the EXACT same things. Its just frustration and not clearly seeing that there is another team on the other side of closely matched hockey players trying to get the best of your team.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I thought Ovechkin was terrible. All of the good things he was doing for the first 4 games went away and he was floating and not back checking as much and taking long shifts. He's got bad habits and he showed a willingness to change them but in the past two game those efforts have faded.

I also think Fehr is a much better fit for the top line than Brouwer. And Mojo/Bura/Brouwer was a decent enough second line. I think you could consider putting Kuz on the third line because Wardo is pretty good defensively and he can pick up the slack. I also think that line needs a goal scoring spark, and Kuz could potentially bring that.

Anyone else notice everyone seemed to be trying to spring Kuzya? It never quite worked out but there seemed to be a concerted effort to do so. Given his shootout prowess and breakaway ability you can see why. Props to the game planning for trying to get that going, even if it didn't work out.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

Oh...I need to check this out. Sharks in the water?

Evidently, Tripp Tracey after he had that hug fest interview with Semin shortly after he had signed with the Canes has now soured on him along with some others there and thus it's generated a thread of its own.

 

[BobRouse]

I thought Ovechkin was terrible. All of the good things he was doing for the first 4 games went away and he was floating and not back checking as much and taking long shifts. He's got bad habits and he showed a willingness to change them but in the past two game those efforts have faded.

I also think Fehr is a much better fit for the top line than Brouwer. And Mojo/Bura/Brouwer was a decent enough second line. I think you could consider putting Kuz on the third line because Wardo is pretty good defensively and he can pick up the slack. I also think that line needs a goal scoring spark, and Kuz could potentially bring that.

Anyone else notice everyone seemed to be trying to spring Kuzya? It never quite worked out but there seemed to be a concerted effort to do so. Given his shootout prowess and breakaway ability you can see why. Props to the game planning for trying to get that going, even if it didn't work out.

We didn't see the same game then...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capitals-insider/wp/2014/10/23/postgame-in-one-goal-loss-to-edmonton-capitals-feel-like-we-let-one-get-away/

According to live tracking from hockeystats.ca, no Washington skater finished with a negative Corsi-for at even-strength, a measurement of shot attempts, blocked or unblocked. The top line of Ovechkin (76 percent), Troy Brouwer (78 percent) and Nicklas Backstrom (80 percent), who recorded his 500th career point on a first-period assist, led the way. Even players deployed heavily in the defensive zone succeeded in moving the puck and pestering goaltender Ben Scrivens (season-high 32 saves).

 

[Midnight Judges]

We didn't see the same game then...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capitals-insider/wp/2014/10/23/postgame-in-one-goal-loss-to-edmonton-capitals-feel-like-we-let-one-get-away/

According to live tracking from hockeystats.ca, no Washington skater finished with a negative Corsi-for at even-strength, a measurement of shot attempts, blocked or unblocked. The top line of Ovechkin (76 percent), Troy Brouwer (78 percent) and Nicklas Backstrom (80 percent), who recorded his 500th career point on a first-period assist, led the way. Even players deployed heavily in the defensive zone succeeded in moving the puck and pestering goaltender Ben Scrivens (season-high 32 saves).

Indeed the top line spent a good bit of time in the offensive zone, as did the entire team. I just didn't feel like they were threatening all that much. At one point they spent an entire shift dominating the puck in the offensive zone but they never really converted that into a quality chance.

 

[BobRouse]

Back when Schoenfeld took over the first season here we played the Pens in the playoffs (the only time we ever beat them in a series).

I believe it was game 4 that I watched with my girlfriend at the time and her dad.

The Caps were pretty much totally owned yet got pretty darn lucky due to random sliding blocks, diving clears and other desperation measures. We barely had any scoring chances since we were playing D the whole game but Joe Reekie threw a puck towards the net and flukily went in. He later sealed it with an even more flukey empty net goal.

We won. The papers talked about this gritty effort and awesome game we played.

Now if Reekie's first fluke doesn't go in then Pitt probably wins that game. The papers and voices would have all talked about how badly dominated we got.

A win or a loss changes the entire perception of how the game was played, how individual players played etc.

Objectively that game we got dominated but we got lucky and won. Did the Caps put up a gritty effort? Sure. You can't take that away from them. But 9 out of 10 times they lose that game.

The Oilers got lucky the other night. The Caps dominated and did alot of things right. We hit posts, the Oilers were flopping around all over the ice and getting pieces of the puck, the GWG deflected off Carlson and in, puck bounced over Ovie's stick leading to 2 on 1 goal that Holtby could have stopped etc.

I think people over react based on the scoreboard of a single regular season non conference game. We played very well. Dont always get the breaks.