Post-Game Talk: Capitals @ Islanders- 4/5/14 5:00 PM Caps Win 4-3 (SO)

[Blades of Steel]

You guys more worried about Ovi getting 50 goals than us winning games is why this fan-base is a perfect fit for this organization (and also why we'll never win anything in the foreseeable future).

Hi, welcome to the show. In case you didn't know the capitals have less than a 3% chance of making the playoffs, not to mention they would get ***** in the first round by Pittsburgh or Boston. (No thanks) anyway, just because you see a few fans rooting for ya know, the team captain to hit 50 goals and not care if they win, doesn't change **** or the outcome of this season.

 

[Corby78]

You guys more worried about Ovi getting 50 goals than us winning games is why this fan-base is a perfect fit for this organization (and also why we'll never win anything in the foreseeable future).

No whats wrong, is the fact that a large portion of the fan base is a "rock the red" blind fan base, who are perfectly fine with squeaking into the playoffs and exiting in the first round every year. This organization has done nothing with the best talent ever to wear the sweater. This year, team wise, is over and we need change. Pretending were hunky doory is not the answer.

Me rooting for ovie to get 50 has nothing to do with any of that. I would be rooting for that if we had 120 points or 60

 

[Devil Dancer]

You guys more worried about Ovi getting 50 goals than us winning games is why this fan-base is a perfect fit for this organization (and also why we'll never win anything in the foreseeable future).

Right. It's all our fault.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

Right. It's all our fault.

Not fans fault, but I also don't put all the blame on GMGM and the Coaches either. The so-called generational talent that many posters speak of has played under Hanlon, Boudreau, Hunter and Oates with pretty much similar results. I think it's time to take a more objective look at the common denominator for the Caps under those four coaches.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Not fans fault, but I also don't put all the blame on GMGM and the Coaches either. The so-called generational talent that many posters speak of has played under Hanlon, Boudreau, Hunter and Oates with pretty much similar results. I think it's time to take a more objective look at the common denominator for the Caps under those four coaches.

Some responsibility is always on the players to execute the system, and some is always on the coaching staff to have a system that works. Some is on the GM to make sure the organization is aligned with the same vision from top to bottom, and that the coach has sufficient talent to work with.

In light of that, I don't really see how things have been "similar". The talent level of the team changed drastically from Hanlon to Boudreau, the philosophy changed drastically from Boudreau to Hunter, and Oates is a bad coach.

 

[FloridaCap]

You guys more worried about Ovi getting 50 goals than us winning games is why this fan-base is a perfect fit for this organization (and also why we'll never win anything in the foreseeable future).

Rooting for winning games kind of ended after we laid eggs against Nashville, Dallas, and New Jersey.

The season's over dude, hate to be the breaker of bad news.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

Some responsibility is always on the players to execute the system, and some is always on the coaching staff to have a system that works. Some is on the GM to make sure the organization is aligned with the same vision from top to bottom, and that the coach has sufficient talent to work with.

In light of that, I don't really see how things have been "similar". The talent level of the team changed drastically from Hanlon to Boudreau, the philosophy changed drastically from Boudreau to Hunter, and Oates is a bad coach.

Just some responsibility is on the players?

This so typical of many in this fan base. Ovechkin can do no wrong, it has to be the coaching, wait it has to be all four coaches.

At some point I expect us to learn that the reason Dale Hunter didn't want to continue with this team, is because of the prima donna attitude of some of the players and that management and ownership was going to side with those players aka the young guns no matter what (because they were the face of the organization and put fannies in the seats).

Hunter realized that it was not the same NHL that it was when he had played the game, at least when it came to the Washington Capitals.

If Alex Ovechkin had been drafted by the Boston Bruins they would have traded him by now. The Bruins traded Phil Kessel because of questions about his work ethic (heck Randy Carlyle even made some comments about it in 24/7), Tyler Seguin was traded because the Bruins didn't believe he worked hard enough. The Capitals organization on the other hand will overlook such things with their star players and keep riding that same pony no matter what the results are and the fans will believe it has to all do with the coaching not the player.

BTW, I don't know if Oates will ever be a good NHL coach but this is definitely not the right fit or time for him in Washington.

 

[swimmer77]

 

[Calicaps]

not fans fault, but i also don't put all the blame on gmgm and the coaches either. The so-called generational talent that many posters speak of has played under hanlon, boudreau, hunter and oates with pretty much similar results. i think it's time to take a more objective look at the common denominator for the caps under those four coaches.

gmgm?

 

[BiPolar Caps]

gmgm?

How can that be, if he was the architect that was responsible for bringing in "generational talent" as some here believe that are on this team.

 

[Calicaps]

How can that be, if he was the architect that was responsible for bringing in "generational talent" as some here believe that are on this team.

Are you seriously pretending Ovechkin didn't fall into McPhee's lap or that any other GM in the league wouldn't have picked Ovie if they'd had the chance. That wasn't exactly a stroke of genius on George's part.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Just some responsibility is on the players?

If you're talking about who's responsible for the team's success, yes, some responsibility is on the players. It takes multiple things to have a successful team.

A good system and coaching staff to implement it - is this the players' responsibility? Do you think an NHL team can succeed with a bad system?

Good players who are good fits for the system - is this the players' responsibility? Do you think an NHL team can succeed with bad players or players who don't fit the system?

Player execution and effort - This is the players' responsibility.

I don't see why it's crazy to say that "some" responsibility for success is on the players.

 

[terranraida]

How are the Blue Jackets going to blank the Islanders, but we take them to a shoot out? Oh that's right. They're a more complete team.

 

[txpd]

Are you seriously pretending Ovechkin didn't fall into McPhee's lap or that any other GM in the league wouldn't have picked Ovie if they'd had the chance. That wasn't exactly a stroke of genius on George's part.

it would have been more interesting had the caps drafted in their base position rather than win the lottery and drafted cam barker at 3

 

[BobRouse]

Are you seriously pretending Ovechkin didn't fall into McPhee's lap or that any other GM in the league wouldn't have picked Ovie if they'd had the chance. That wasn't exactly a stroke of genius on George's part.

Lets remember one thing...

That season GMGM and Ted made the decision to abandon ship early. They traded Kono 6 games into the season after a rough start and actively tried to trade everyone before the deadline (Grier was gone before and so was Jagr).

At the deadline they even traded Bondra who didn't want to go.

It was a conscious decision to tank and try to outtank the best tankers in the business (Pittsburgh)

Came down to the last game...loser takes all. Pens at Caps. Loser would be 1st and Winner would be 3rd.

Yeatts won it for the Caps sadly. The Penguins were just too strong of a tanking team.

While we did get "lucky" to get the #1 we would have never been in that position if GMGM hadn't gotten an early start on the tank. The effort was there for sure.

 

[g00n]

Lets remember one thing...

That season GMGM and Ted made the decision to abandon ship early. They traded Kono 6 games into the season after a rough start and actively tried to trade everyone before the deadline (Grier was gone before and so was Jagr).

At the deadline they even traded Bondra who didn't want to go.

It was a conscious decision to tank and try to outtank the best tankers in the business (Pittsburgh)

Came down to the last game...loser takes all. Pens at Caps. Loser would be 1st and Winner would be 3rd.

Yeatts won it for the Caps sadly. The Penguins were just too strong of a tanking team.

While we did get "lucky" to get the #1 we would have never been in that position if GMGM hadn't gotten an early start on the tank. The effort was there for sure.

Oh this is utter BS.

I don't think it was a tank, it was fear of the lockout combined with Kono getting sick fo the organization and asking out. Then the team just stunk because it was flawed in the way it was built. Remember, people actually LIKED the effort from the post-firesale team, even if the talent and results were not there. That team tried harder than the team before it, which was part of the problem. It's not like GMGM dismantled a functioning playoff team, he took apart his and Ted's own failed roster.

Giving GMGM credit for anything AT ALL in that situation other than getting value for the firesale is revisionist history. His and Ted's Jagr "experiment" and Cassidy "experiment" blew up in their faces and Ted, still bitter from low attendance in the previous playoffs ("the market has spoken") forced a sell-off prior to the lockout. Then GMGM got luckier than any GM in NHL history in the draft lottery.

Pure luck.

 

[BobRouse]

Oh this is utter BS.

I don't think it was a tank, it was fear of the lockout combined with Kono getting sick fo the organization and asking out. Then the team just stunk because it was flawed in the way it was built.

Giving GMGM credit for anything AT ALL in that situation other than getting value for the firesale is revisionist history. His and Ted's Jagr "experiment" and Cassidy "experiment" blew up in their faces and Ted, still bitter from low attendance in the previous playoffs ("the market has spoken") forced a sell-off prior to the lockout. Then GMGM got luckier than any GM in NHL history in the draft lottery.

Pure luck.

It absolutely was a tank!!!

Kolzig going down with a mysterious injury and them bringing up an ECHL goalie????

You kidding me???

They traded guys like Grier and Jagr well before the deadline if I remember correctly. It wasn't just Kono.

In the prior offseason they were trying to trade Jagr. They didn't resign Klee b/c they knew after the Easter game 6 attendance vs the Lightning the team wasn't going anywhere.

Boyd Gordon started the season centering Jagr FYI

The only reason they waited to trade Lang, Gonchar and Bondra was to maximize value and that we did (Flash, Laich, Shamo, 2 1sts and a 2nd).

I'm pretty sure Nylander was out most of the season with an injury suffered in preseason. We traded him for 2 2nds I think.

It was an obvious tank.

 

[g00n]

It absolutely was a tank!!!

Kolzig going down with a mysterious injury and them bringing up an ECHL goalie????

You kidding me???

They traded guys like Grier and Jagr well before the deadline if I remember correctly. It wasn't just Kono.

In the prior offseason they were trying to trade Jagr. They didn't resign Klee b/c they knew after the Easter game 6 attendance vs the Lightning the team wasn't going anywhere.

Boyd Gordon started the season centering Jagr FYI

The only reason they waited to trade Lang, Gonchar and Bondra was to maximize value and that we did (Flash, Laich, Shamo, 2 1sts and a 2nd).

I'm pretty sure Nylander was out most of the season with an injury suffered in preseason. We traded him for 2 2nds I think.

It was an obvious tank.

Dude, please. You're embarassing yourself.

 

[BobRouse]

Dude, please. You're embarassing yourself.

huh?

I'm even reading the book Red Rising and they all but suggest that is exactly what transpired.

They didn't try to address needs in the offseason and in fact tried to trade away assets.

They pressed the evacuate button well before the TDL.

They call up the ECHL goalie (NOT the AHL goalie) when Kolzig went "down"

 

[g00n]

huh?

I'm even reading the book Red Rising and they all but suggest that is exactly what transpired.

They didn't try to address needs in the offseason and in fact tried to trade away assets.

They pressed the evacuate button well before the TDL.

They call up the ECHL goalie (NOT the AHL goalie) when Kolzig went "down"

Just because they started selling off before the TDL doesn't mean it was a crafty tank MORE than it was the end result of GMGM and Ted's failure, Ted's bitterness over the playoff attendance, and hunkering down and dumping salary pre-lockout. The latter two are straight from Ted's mouth.

The needs they had that offseason are the same ones GMGM has failed to address every year since. Are you saying GMGM has been tanking EVERY year, then?

AFTER it became clear that the team had a shot at the #1 pick, it's very possible that GMGM made intentional moves to tank late in the season. Are you even reading this? But everything before that was damage control and prep for the lockout, and not some ingenious plot by GMGM to dismantle a successful and cost-effective team. I don't care what book you're reading and what its spin is, that's what happened.

And WTF does "all but suggest" mean?

 

[BobRouse]

Just because they started selling off before the TDL doesn't mean it was a crafty tank MORE than it was the end result of GMGM and Ted's failure, Ted's bitterness over the playoff attendance, and hunkering down and dumping salary pre-lockout. The latter two are straight from Ted's mouth.

The needs they had that offseason are the same ones GMGM has failed to address every year since. Are you saying GMGM has been tanking EVERY year, then?

AFTER it became clear that the team had a shot at the #1 pick, it's very possible that GMGM made intentional moves to tank late in the season. Are you even reading this? But everything before that was damage control and prep for the lockout, and not some ingenious plot by GMGM to dismantle a successful and cost-effective team. I don't care what book you're reading and what its spin is, that's what happened.

And WTF does "all but suggest" mean?

No one ever comes out and says "HEY! WE ARE TANKING!"

They just make moves to ensure that happens. Usually the moves are made for forward thinking reasons like getting younger, rebuilding, looming lockout etc.

If you trade your captain, then your alternate captain and then your highest paid player within the first few months of the season then you are tanking. "damage control" and "prep for the lockout" were their avenues to tank.

They flushed that season very early on knowing that they were not a playoff team and being FULLY aware of who was in that draft. They were actively shopping Jagr the entire offseason.

 

[g00n]

No one ever comes out and says "HEY! WE ARE TANKING!"

They just make moves to ensure that happens. Usually the moves are made for forward thinking reasons like getting younger, rebuilding, looming lockout etc.

If you trade your captain, then your alternate captain and then your highest paid player within the first few months of the season then you are tanking. "damage control" and "prep for the lockout" were their avenues to tank.

They flushed that season very early on knowing that they were not a playoff team and being FULLY aware of who was in that draft. They were actively shopping Jagr the entire offseason.

AFTER it became clear that the team had a shot at the #1 pick, it's very possible that GMGM made intentional moves to tank late in the season. Are you even reading this? But everything before that was damage control and prep for the lockout, and not some ingenious plot by GMGM to dismantle a successful and cost-effective team. I don't care what book you're reading and what its spin is, that's what happened.

You are trying to give credit to GMGM for something you have no evidence of despite plenty of other much more likely explanations that are also backed up by quotes all the way up to the owner.

And, you continue to just blast this spin no matter what anyone says to you.

 

[Hivemind]

How anyone can argue it wasn't a "tank job" is absurd revisionist history. They went full-on rebuild, trading away any player of worth and drafting very early in the draft repeatedly. Konowalchuk, Jagr, Bondra, Lang, Gonchar, Nylander, Carter, and Grier were all traded away in the same season. That puts just about every other fire sale we've seen to shame.

 

[Devil Dancer]

Sorry g00n, but you're on your own here. That was as clear a tank as there ever has been.

 

[BobRouse]

How anyone can argue it wasn't a "tank job" is absurd revisionist history. They went full-on rebuild, trading away any player of worth and drafting very early in the draft repeatedly. Konowalchuk, Jagr, Bondra, Lang, Gonchar, Nylander, Carter, and Grier were all traded away in the same season. That puts just about every other fire sale we've seen to shame.

Right ..if THAT wasn't a Tank then I'd like to see what one really looks like!!

You are trying to give credit to GMGM for something you have no evidence of despite plenty of other much more likely explanations that are also backed up by quotes all the way up to the owner.

And, you continue to just blast this spin no matter what anyone says to you.

Your hatred and frustration arising from GMGM is clouding your vision.

It was a clear a tank as there ever was.

No owner or GM is going to say "Hey guys...we are TANKING in order to get the best prospect since Mario Lemieux". They will say "After long consideration we feel its best to build for the future"

Its implied.

In your world no team has ever ever tanked b/c no owner or GM has come out and said they did so intentionally.