Capitals improved despite Ovechkin's lower production

[daver]

What was so different between the 08/09 pens that won a cup, and the 09/10 team that was apparently a paper tiger as well since they went out in exactly the same way as WSH?

Terrible argument. A paper tiger is one that never proves themselves. Pens had proved themselves.

If you want to know the difference between the Pens and Caps, their star forwards could play solid 2-way hockey when needed.

OV's and Caps' style wasn't going to win and it wasn't sustainable.

 

[daver]

"it is interesting" to note that the so-called "unleashed" Ovie of several years ago, whom you described as playing with no regard for defensive positioning and as refusing to play a 200-foot game, was the centerpiece of our two best seasons in recent memory.

These alleged "selfish Ovie" teams took the Pens to seven games in the year the Penguins won the Cup (with Ovie collecting Hart, Pearson & Richard trophies along the way), and then followed it up by winning the Presidents Trophy the next season. Yes, Caps lost in the first round in 2010 against the Canadiens, in seven games, but it was the same Canadiens team which proceeded to knock out the Penguins in the next round. Was this defeat of the Penguins due to 87 "not playing a 200-foot-game," or to him playing with "no regard for defensive positioning?"

Ovie haters act as if the Caps were a proud Original Six franchise with years of near-misses until Ovie showed up and hi-jacked the franchise. The reality is the Caps have played 40 seasons with precious little to show for it, and the only times they even sniffed glory in recent memory was because of 8 busting his *** and scoring a boatload of goals.

Maybe they could have been better if he was the more well rounded player that he is now?

 

[mrv52]

Terrible argument. A paper tiger is one that never proves themselves. Pens had proved themselves.

If you want to know the difference between the Pens and Caps, their star forwards could play solid 2-way hockey when needed.

OV's and Caps' style wasn't going to win and it wasn't sustainable.

See here is where you expose yourself.

The Caps forwards CAN play a D game as is being witnessed right now. They were not asked to do it until now (with the exception of a short time under Hunter).

Also, please explain what you mean by "OV's and the Caps" style. Are they different? Why are you separating the two?

 

[Plural]

Maybe they could have been better if he was the more well rounded player that he is now?

Seriously? Had Ovechkin improved his defensive play magically his team would have improved? Wow. Aren't you a sharp tool. It's pretty obvious that if a player improves his abilities team benefits from that. You are however claiming that current Ovechkin is somehow better player than he was at the time of his offensive peak. Which is not only ridiculous, it is so clearly biased that it makes me laugh.

But you are trying to prove team with 30 game sample size with different coach and vastly different players to be better than president trophy winning team.

Are you really surprised that people see behind that oh so complex agenda?

 

[Blades of Steel]

Terrible argument. A paper tiger is one that never proves themselves. Pens had proved themselves.

If you want to know the difference between the Pens and Caps, their star forwards could play solid 2-way hockey when needed.

OV's and Caps' style wasn't going to win and it wasn't sustainable.

This is the exact reason some people have to enlarge font and bold it.

 

[eyetest is useless]

Well Trottier seemed to define paper tiger as "build (sic) for regular season only", and as evidence used the caps loss in the playoffs. So the pens using the same way mean that either that a) the pens were a paper tiger as well, or b) that using a single playoff series as evidence for pretty much anything is total ********. I'd lean towards b).

 

[Dr John Carlson]

I still have a hard time believing that a team who finished with the best record in the league and scored nearly 50 more goals than any other team never had a real chance at the Cup. That idea is brought up way too often on here.

 

[Plural]

I still have a hard time believing that a team who finished with the best record in the league and scored nearly 50 more goals than any other team never had a real chance at the Cup. That idea is brought up way too often on here.

It's just a narrative created to piss on Caps and especially Ovechkin. The fact that Caps didn't win a cup in the three year stretch where Ovechkin was at his peak, is a definite proof of him being just a selfish puck-hog with no regards to defensive play and his team. He only cared about goals/personal awards and he could not care less about his team and the playoffs.

Unlike Malkin, who was the epitome of team player as evident by his Cup and Conn Smythe. Or Crosby who captained his team to the Cup.

Apparently the OP is saying that Ovechkin now is better for his team than he was back in the days when Ovechkin was winning scoring titles and MVP's left and right. Apparently daver is good enough of judge of a player to realize this from 30 games to this season.

Or, maybe it's just not so well executed attempt to take a piss on Ovechkin and his abilities as a player at his best.

 

[daver]

It's just a narrative created to piss on Caps and especially Ovechkin. The fact that Caps didn't win a cup in the three year stretch where Ovechkin was at his peak, is a definite proof of him being just a selfish puck-hog with no regards to defensive play and his team. He only cared about goals/personal awards and he could not care less about his team and the playoffs.

Unlike Malkin, who was the epitome of team player as evident by his Cup and Conn Smythe. Or Crosby who captained his team to the Cup.

Apparently the OP is saying that Ovechkin now is better for his team than he was back in the days when Ovechkin was winning scoring titles and MVP's left and right. Apparently daver is good enough of judge of a player to realize this from 30 games to this season.

Or, maybe it's just not so well executed attempt to take a piss on Ovechkin and his abilities as a player at his best.

They got just as far in the 2011 playoffs playing a completely defensive style so there is more than a 30 game sample.

Have you not questioned whether OV should have been made captain because of his personality?

 

[Plural]

They got just as far in the 2011 playoffs playing a completely defensive style so there is more than a 30 game sample.

Have you not questioned whether OV should have been made captain because of his personality?

Bottom line is, Ovechkin currently is playing well within the system Caps have. He has always played the way his coach has wanted.

I don't remember if I have sometimes questioned OV playing captain. I'm sure I have. How is that at all relevant?

You are making claims that Ovechkin is currently better player in terms of his value to his team and you base it on the notion that high octane offensive Ovechkin didn't get the job done in the playoffs. How exactly is there any merit to the idea since the season has gone 30 or so games?

You can try to deny the reasons behind this thread. But there is only one reason for you to make these claims. As I've said before, it's not that big deal. We all have our favorite players and teams and we like to talk about them. We also have our least favorite teams and players and we like to talk about them also. The difference being, you try to mask it behind objectivity and false narratives.

 

[hockey4sale]

Terrible argument. A paper tiger is one that never proves themselves. Pens had proved themselves.

If you want to know the difference between the Pens and Caps, their star forwards could play solid 2-way hockey when needed.

OV's and Caps' style wasn't going to win and it wasn't sustainable.

In those years Caps D was probably one of the worst in the league, look at the lineup, in the backend they had Milan Jurcina, Tom Poti, Shaone Morrisonn, Jeff Schultz, Tyler Sloan, John Erskine, Brian Pothier...

these guys belong to the beer league not NHL, and where are these guys now? they are not in the league anymore, moron GM who assembled these guys is the one who should be blamed not Ovechkin, this is why Caps didn't win anything and wasted Ovie's prime..

the fact that Caps took much better all around team like Pittsburg to game 7 speaks to Ovie's strength not weakness, in his prime Ovie was better player than Crosby and Malkin combined, but idiot GM never gave his team a chance by signing 5-6 bush league defenseman, in 08/09 if Caps had at least one pair of adequate Dman they would win the Cup, blaming Ovie for the loss is a joke, unless you work for Canadian media that hates Russian players since 1972

 

[Blades of Steel]

In those years Caps D was probably one of the worst in the league, look at the lineup, in the backend they had Milan Jurcina, Tom Poti, Shaone Morrisonn, Jeff Schultz, Tyler Sloan, John Erskine, Brian Pothier...

these guys belong to the beer league not NHL, and where are these guys now? they are not in the league anymore, it was a moron GM who assembled these guys is the one to be blamed not Ovechkin, this is why Caps didn't win anything and wasted Ovie's prime..

the fact that Caps took much better all around team like Pittsburg to game 7 speaks to Ovie's strength not weakness, in his prime Ovie was better player than Crosby and Malkin combined, but idiot GM never gave his team a chance by signing 5-6 bush league defenseman, in 08/09 if Caps had at least one pair of adequate Dman they would win the Cup, blaming Ovie for the loss is a joke, unless you work for Canadian media that hates Russian players since 1972

What you typed has been said literally a thousand times and the haters just don't care and won't listen to it. I was going to type it all myself again, and bold it, and enlarge the font.. but there is no point. You might as well be talking to a rock than trying to convince the blind.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

In those years Caps D was probably one of the worst in the league, look at the lineup, in the backend they had Milan Jurcina, Tom Poti, Shaone Morrisonn, Jeff Schultz, Tyler Sloan, John Erskine, Brian Pothier...

these guys belong to the beer league not NHL, and where are these guys now? they are not in the league anymore, moron GM who assembled these guys is the one who should be blamed not Ovechkin, this is why Caps didn't win anything and wasted Ovie's prime..

the fact that Caps took much better all around team like Pittsburg to game 7 speaks to Ovie's strength not weakness, in his prime Ovie was better player than Crosby and Malkin combined, but idiot GM never gave his team a chance by signing 5-6 bush league defenseman, in 08/09 if Caps had at least one pair of adequate Dman they would win the Cup, blaming Ovie for the loss is a joke, unless you work for Canadian media that hates Russian players since 1972

Good post, but Ovechkin was never better than Crosby AND Malkin combined; that's a little hyperbolic. Completely agree though that OV (and to a lesser extent Semin and Boudreau) took way too much heat for those playoff exits.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Terrible argument. A paper tiger is one that never proves themselves. Pens had proved themselves.

If you want to know the difference between the Pens and Caps, their star forwards could play solid 2-way hockey when needed.

OV's and Caps' style wasn't going to win and it wasn't sustainable.

So in a playoff series that went to 7 games, you think one of those teams very clearly had a winning strategy and the other must have been a paper tiger?

 

[stator]

He's SOG run-rate is still up, not quite his peak seasons, but higher than his average. It's probably two-fold, the pucks are not dropping in for him, and he's adjusting to a new coach with Trotz's system.

 

[Caps8112]

Terrible argument. A paper tiger is one that never proves themselves. Pens had proved themselves.

If you want to know the difference between the Pens and Caps, their star forwards could play solid 2-way hockey when needed.

OV's and Caps' style wasn't going to win and it wasn't sustainable.

people can say what they want about ovi. I have my issues with him also but he is the most irrelevant factor in why they didnt go far in the playoffs during that time period. People are quick to forget that there defense and goaltending was laughable looking back now.

Shultz - terrible and merely a press box player for the kings.
Morrisson - not in the NHL anymore
Poti - was near the end of his career and wasnt really that good to begin with. Also
directly responsible for a couple OT losses.
Green - Back then it was going to be 7-1 to somebody while he was on the ice.
Jurcina - liked his size but never really did much and do not believe he is in the league
anymore
Pothier - returned from a long injury and never really lived up to his contract.
Erskine- this is just a sad joke that he has been allowed to stay in the league as long
as he has.
Alzner/Carlson - rookies with lots of mistakes and learning

Then theres the gong show that was Jose Theodore and a rookie Varlamov.

The caps lost to the penguins because of the above. Ran into a hot goalie on a mediocre team against montreal. Those were the only years they really could have won. Ovi had 31 pts in 21 games with a plus 15. He cant make crap players be NHL defensemen and goalies.