Post-Game Talk: Capitals 4, Penguins 1 - All is Well

[EightyOne]

You have to assume Sid will rebound. You might need to sit Letang now though. He's costing us games as this point.

Guys like Sheahan, Hags, Reaves, Kuhnhakle and McKegg aren't helping us right now. They aren't costing us games but these players aren't helping us to win right now. I'd be thrilled if they all just disappeared.

Half of our lineup is composed of warm bodies. I still blame grandpa Rutherford as the architect of this roster for our struggles.

True enough. I think Botterill was the real mastermind the last few years....JR could make me shut up this year, though, if some magic happens roster wise.

The sky is falling on HFB again!

Last time it was falling this bad was Dec 2015. We know what happened then. Want a repeat of that?

My long term view: I told myself that after their back to back Cups, everything from here on out is gravy. It's why I'm not too hard on JR like some folks seem to be, and why I'm not too hard on Sully or even the players, overall. The second they won the 2017 Cup, I'm generally content for the next decade.

My short term view: I ****ing hate not seeing my team score. Personal opinion, but it's frustrating as hell. Even if they were losing all the time, I wouldn't even care as much if they were losing 6-5 or 5-4 every game. But losing AND not scoring is like a double kick in the nuts for me.

I think this is shared by many of us who bitch and moan, honestly. I doubt we all are burning our jerseys and kicking our dogs over the Penguins. It is the internet and it is a sports forum. We are gonna post wild emotional swings lol.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

My long term view: I told myself that after their back to back Cups, everything from here on out is gravy. It's why I'm not too hard on JR like some folks seem to be, and why I'm not too hard on Sully or even the players, overall. The second they won the 2017 Cup, I'm generally content for the next decade.

My short term view: I ****ing hate not seeing my team score. Personal opinion, but it's frustrating as hell. Even if they were losing all the time, I wouldn't even care as much if they were losing 6-5 or 5-4 every game. But losing AND not scoring is like a double kick in the nuts for me.

It's a kick in the sack, but if they win playing firewagon hockey, it masks problems that need fixed.

This roster will look different in April, but the process of finding the right pieces for another run is going to be a year long process.

Anyone looking at the schedule knew the first quarter was going to be a grind, but they are hanging in there. The stretch from the end of Jan on requires very little travel and that will be a big advantage for them, unlike the ridiculous schedule they are playing now.

The final stretch of this shitty schedule ends tomorrow, then they have a beautiful stretch of 10 out of their next 14 at home. This is when we will likely see them make a big pushback and balance things out...

 

[Gurglesons]

Doesn't take fans long to turn on the first back to back champion in 20 years...

Are you one of those people that gets mad about radio hosts saying dumb trades?

Or sports announcers bringing up rumors?

You're on a hypersensitive hockey forum, what exactly do you expect to go on here when the back to back champs are one of the statistically worst teams in the league.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

True enough. I think Botterill was the real mastermind the last few years....JR could make me shut up this year, though, if some magic happens roster wise.

Ya, the mastermind who was around during the Shero years letting him screw the pooch...

He became a mastermind as soon as JR came along... what convenient timing.

Are you one of those people that gets mad about radio hosts saying dumb trades?

Or sports announcers bringing up rumors?

You're on a hypersensitive hockey forum, what exactly do you expect to go on here when the back to back champs are one of the statistically worst teams in the league.

It's a message board on the intrawebs, which means you have time to think before you click a button...

 

[ColePens]

Are you one of those people that gets mad about radio hosts saying dumb trades?

Or sports announcers bringing up rumors?

You're on a hypersensitive hockey forum, what exactly do you expect to go on here when the back to back champs are one of the statistically worst teams in the league.

And yet every single fan of the NHL would trade places with us and be ecstatic. Sooooo there's that.

This is adversity. That's a challenge for the team. There is no masking how they are playing. But I feel Jiggy is right that there is a happy medium between being not so happy with their play versus the sky is falling routine.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Pointing out glaring issues that have plagued this team for a long time and questioning whether this team can overcome them again is not jumping ship or turning heel. It's merely discussion.

 

[Andy99]

Didn't get to watch the game and came on here to find out what happened, and boy, is it depressing here: Team shied away from hits, is boring, didn't care/have pride, and has major problems.

You read the team's quotes about what happened: just a little off on the PP, that was the difference in the game, maybe needed a little better push back when WSH scored off the PP. no major issues. Crosby didn't sound like a once proud superstar embarrassed by his suckitude.

Where is the truth....somewhere in between?

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

RIP Sid.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

And yet every single fan of the NHL would trade places with us and be ecstatic. Sooooo there's that.

This is adversity. That's a challenge for the team. There is no masking how they are playing. But I feel Jiggy is right that there is a happy medium between being not so happy with their play versus the sky is falling routine.

I think the majority of the complaints in these PGTs are more about the particular game (or stretch of games) rather than the team as a whole.

There's like 2 or 3 posters who make it sound like the team needs to be blown up and everything sucks. The rest are just frustrated about certain aspects of their current play.

 

[Beauner]

Well, it's November. Let's see if this is the norm 3 months from now. If so, then I'll panic. Until then I'll be cautiously optimistic.

We know this team has proven that playing like garbage for the first 3 months isn't the be all end all.

 

[Gurglesons]

And yet every single fan of the NHL would trade places with us and be ecstatic. Sooooo there's that.

This is adversity. That's a challenge for the team. There is no masking how they are playing. But I feel Jiggy is right that there is a happy medium between being not so happy with their play versus the sky is falling routine.

I'm really curious why it is okay to harp on a specific player like Letang or Crosby, but when people harp on the team they get this BS answer.

I don't think anyone is saying the sky is falling. There are people realizing we flat out dominated in 2016, had some major issues defensively and possession in 2017, and now they are proceeding into this season.

We took major hits to our center depth which are also having an effect on our team.

Saying we aren't happy with moves, and realizing that back to back cup wins are behind us and it is a new season with new challenge isn't turning our on the team or taking anything away the first back to back champions in twenty years.

 

[Coastal Kev]

And yet every single fan of the NHL would trade places with us and be ecstatic. Sooooo there's that.

This is adversity. That's a challenge for the team. There is no masking how they are playing. But I feel Jiggy is right that there is a happy medium between being not so happy with their play versus the sky is falling routine.

The team goes as the stars go and right now our stars our lethargic. I think a shock to the roster, a shakeup is needed.

But I'm not stressing because I want to win a 3peat this year, I just want to watch fun hockey again. So far this season, it's been one big yawn. Throw in the fact they won't play Sprong....... me no happy

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Their passing was garbage, they were a step slow, and they were playing so soft that it was like watching 5 Ryan Whitneys out there.

Not an enjoyable game. The slump isn't going to last forever though.

 

[Captain Hook]

I'm not really worried since it's still only November. I think our stars will play better as we go and that will help. The schedule should get easier at some point too.

The only things I don't like about the team are the bottom 6 centers and Reaves. The #3 and #4 centers are not championship caliber and Reaves is just a big lumbering guy that doesn't fit our identity that well. I miss the Pens hockey of the past two seasons where we could roll 4 lines that were fast, tenacious and could wear down the opposition. Seems we're creeping away from that and I don't like it.

 

[EightyOne]

Ya, the mastermind who was around during the Shero years letting him screw the pooch...

He became a mastermind as soon as JR came along... what convenient timing.



It's a message board on the intrawebs, which means you have time to think before you click a button...

You know what. I agree. They both arent all that.

I just spent time going through History of NHL trades by the Pittsburgh Penguins - NHL Trade Tracker

Go ahead and look back until June 2014 when JR arrived. There are a number of Pens overpayments, a few where the players coming back did or have played well above the expectation anyone could have had, and a few where it was a push trade of minorly effective for minorly effective. Someone playing above their ability isnt genius...I mean it is, but only in revisionist history. It is risky to take reclamations all the time.

What genius of JR am I missing in the trades of the last 2.5 years???

If you go back a couple years before that, the trades were pathetic too though.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's a message board on the intrawebs, which means you have time to think before you click a button...

The internet is a culture of outrage. What do you expect?

 

[Gurglesons]

You know what. I agree. They both arent all that.

I just spent time going through History of NHL trades by the Pittsburgh Penguins - NHL Trade Tracker

Go ahead and look back until June 2014 when JR arrived. There are a number of Pens overpayments, a few where the players coming back did or have played well above the expectation anyone could have had, and a few where it was a push trade of minorly effective for minorly effective.

What genius of JR am I missing in the trades of the last 2.5 years???

If you go back a couple years before that, the trades were pathetic too though.

Oh, I hope you are prepared for this fight

Get ready to hear about how we revitalized Ian Cole and Carl Hagelin's career and how you shouldn't talk badly about the Penguins for the next five years.

 

[Andy99]

I'm not really worried since it's still only November. I think our stars will play better as we go and that will help. The schedule should get easier at some point too.

The only things I don't like about the team are the bottom 6 centers and Reaves. The #3 and #4 centers are not championship caliber and Reaves is just a big lumbering guy that doesn't fit our identity that well. I miss the Pens hockey of the past two seasons where we could roll 4 lines that were fast, tenacious and could wear down the opposition. Seems we're creeping away from that and I don't like it.

We're creeping away from it because it's hard to sustain, Sully's system is hard to sustain. I've said for awhile that I think the best thing they can do before March is to play a more boring, structured defensive system that tries to conserve energy and hopefully generate some turnovers in the neutral zone that will lead to scoring chances off the rush. Then go back to his system for a playoff push. Right now it seems they are trying to play his system but are a step slow and not engaged and that's leading to zone time and high danger chances for the opposition. That's a bad combination

 

[Empoleon8771]

You know what. I agree. They both arent all that.

I just spent time going through History of NHL trades by the Pittsburgh Penguins - NHL Trade Tracker

Go ahead and look back until June 2014 when JR arrived. There are a number of Pens overpayments, a few where the players coming back did or have played well above the expectation anyone could have had, and a few where it was a push trade of minorly effective for minorly effective. Someone playing above their ability isnt genius...I mean it is, but only in revisionist history. It is risky to take reclamations all the time.

What genius of JR am I missing in the trades of the last 2.5 years???

If you go back a couple years before that, the trades were pathetic too though.

I was just going to comment on how I'm surprised Sprong hasn't been called up with how anemic the Penguins have been offensively, but your post was so insane that it actually thew me off and now I can't finish that post.

For real, acting like Botterill was some sort of mastermind behind the last 2 years (which I do really like him, btw) just seems weird. Are you ignoring that he was the assistant GM under Shero and in JR's 1st year. Why was he so responsible for the last 2 years, but not the failures from before 2 years ago? And why are you pretending the issues with this team are GM related? Crosby is on pace for 59 points, 146 PIM and a -64. Letang is on pace for 50 points (which is low for him) and a -73. Sheary has gone from a 70+ point pace to a 32 point pace. Guentzel has also had a similar offensive decline this year, with only being on pace for 41 points this year. There are 4 players on pace for more points than they had last year, only Kessel, Rust, McKegg and Maatta. That's it. Everyone else is either slightly below (Malkin, Hornqvist, Letang, Reaves and Dumoulin, although it's generous to include Dumoulin in this category) or insanely below (Sheary, Crosby, Schultz, Guentzel, Cole, Hagelin and Kuhnhackl).

I genuinely don't know how you can blame JR for the Penguins current standing. It is completely on the players, they need to be better. That's just what it is, they need to be better. This team is not perfect, but their flaws are not a justification of how they have played recently and overall this year. They need to be better.

 

[Peat]

Or perhaps we should stop pretending that trading Hagelin and adding a 3C will be a panacea and accept that the Pens have problems, and they are many.

Well. On to Nashville tomorrow. I'm sure that one will be as painful as watching Letang try to think.

If there are big problems, what is there to be done?

Right now, the main issue sounds like the locker room just doesn't care enough.

The optimistic point of view is that this is just a team repeatedly hitting the snooze button and that, as long as the team is in the right spot in the standings come when they actually have to play hockey and do start caring, all is more or less well.

If there's something more than that, if they don't care because they don't care, that's a harder place to be and to fix. You'd consider trading the main culprits but right that seems to mean Sid and you're not trading Sid. The other classic move is to look at the coaching staff but that seems absurd right now. Maybe Tocchet was a bigger loss than we assumed. I guess you could do a bunch of shake-up trades, bring in veteran leadership and bring up some more WBS kids. Get Sid some new people to win the cup for.

Maybe there's other problems. But - admittedly as someone going on other people's posts and not watching the games right now myself - this seems to be the big one.

 

[deakka]

We could really use some injection of adrenaline.

Remember 2016 when Rust, Kuhnhackl, Wilson and Sheary came up and became regulars? That ignited the whole team. Everyone started to play with more intensity. Some because of fear of losing their spots in the lineup, and some just because they didnt wanna look bad in not giving 100% when the new guys were playing like there wasnt a tomorrow.

Now the team is just... there

I have no idea of we can bring up Sprong and maybe one or two more guys and get that same effect . Maybe we really need a shakeup trade instead?

I dont know if we can wait for guys to get injured and open up a roster spot before calling up fresh legs either . We might have to do something sooner rather than later.

If teams win their games in hand im not even sure we are in the playoffs atm.

 

[Doogle]

I feel like it's November, we've had a rough opening schedule, we're coming off two long cup runs, and in March we'll be looking back thinking that our concerns were overstated and that we'll be in fine shape.

But on the other hand, I feel like we need a spark to get to that point. My suggestions... call up Sprong to play with Sid, maybe that could get him going. Play Archibald over Kuhnackl. Bench either Mckegg, Reaves, or Hags here and there to get fresh guys in, until they prove that they can show more. And I know it's not a popular idea, but if Guentzel could play 3c, he could be an upgrade there by default, plus we could make room for Sprong, ZAR, or Archibald. Just for a temporary solution until others present themselves.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Pointing out glaring issues that have plagued this team for a long time and questioning whether this team can overcome them again is not jumping ship or turning heel. It's merely discussion.

Yeah the mere notion that if you question Crosby or that hey they just won back 2 back so they deserve a break is a joke. The team is playing like ass, it should be discussed and if people want to discuss it, they aren't doing so because they aren't fans, it's because they are fans.

It bothers me that the team holds players accountable but then don't hold its stars accountable. Still that same horse shit hypocrisy in the NHL and especially on this team. Sullivan & Co were more than happy to put Fleury in his spot last year, only when they had someone else there as an option, but god forbid anyone plays like ass and they just keep playing them anyway in fear of them throwing a fit.

 

[Shrimper]

Sid, come on man..

Team is playing like ass.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I feel like it's November, we've had a rough opening schedule, we're coming off two long cup runs, and in March we'll be looking back thinking that our concerns were overstated and that we'll be in fine shape.

But on the other hand, I feel like we need a spark to get to that point. My suggestions... call up Sprong to play with Sid, maybe that could get him going. Play Archibald over Kuhnackl. Bench either Mckegg, Reaves, or Hags here and there to get fresh guys in, until they prove that they can show more. And I know it's not a popular idea, but if Guentzel could play 3c, he could be an upgrade there by default, plus we could make room for Sprong, ZAR, or Archibald. Just for a temporary solution until others present themselves.

Here's the thing, the schedule doesn't get easier, they still play the most back 2 back's in the league and if they can't handle it now, they won't be able to later when other teams that are able to, are able to handle that workload and flow. This problem is the Penguins own problem and own doing, they are not willing to make the necessary changes to adapt. In a back 2 back, why wouldn't you play the 2 extra players you carry to utilize their energy? Sullivan has played Archibald all but 1 game, you know how f***ing ridiculous that is?

THe team has looked FLAT in pretty much all of the back 2 back games, yet Archibald has played 1 game as of now, why? It's not because Archibald is amazing that I want him in, it's because he's fresh, he's energetic, he's quick, why on earth is Kuhnhackl still playing? He looked good for about 6-7 games, but the guy just is not built to play regularly, he's a guy I swap in for Archibald, not the other way around, to give Archie a rest.

They should call up Sprong, for sure, also playing Archibald would go a long way to energizing that bottom 6 line-up as well. Benching players that just are not producing or playing as well as they should, shouldn't be seen as doing something bad to anyone, if you aren't contributing, you need to sit and sort your shit out in practice and then when you get a chance, make the most of it.

We could really use some injection of adrenaline.

Remember 2016 when Rust, Kuhnhackl, Wilson and Sheary came up and became regulars? That ignited the whole team. Everyone started to play with more intensity. Some because of fear of losing their spots in the lineup, and some just because they didnt wanna look bad in not giving 100% when the new guys were playing like there wasnt a tomorrow.

Now the team is just... there

I have no idea of we can bring up Sprong and maybe one or two more guys and get that same effect . Maybe we really need a shakeup trade instead?

I dont know if we can wait for guys to get injured and open up a roster spot before calling up fresh legs either . We might have to do something sooner rather than later.

If teams win their games in hand im not even sure we are in the playoffs atm.

Hagelin needs to go, as much as I love the guy on the team as a team mate from everything I have read and seen of him in videos regarding the team, on the ice, he just sucks. He's much worse than what Anaheim was trying to jettison to anyone willing to listen. That would be a start. Another forward needs to go too, between Kuhnhackl, McKegg, and Rowney, you can't keep all 3. I'd rather keep Archibald over all 3.

That would be a shake-up that could send a message to the team that if you don't produce, you're out.