Speculation: Cap problem who goes?

[kyuss]

If you were offered Gaustad for Vinny you do that deal every day of the week from a Flyers standpoint, beggars can't be choosers.

I'm one of the few who doesn't see the Flyers as beggars to rid themselves of Vinny--at least not this offseason. Right now I see Vinny for Gaustad as much more of a hockey trade. Vinny can cheat with the Preds--especially with Lavy coaching them. They need scorers, and he can do that. We could use a guy who's basically Adam Hall yet bigger and better. It would be a bit like Hartnell/Umberger in that nobody would "win" the trade, but everybody would get something they wanted; in the Flyers case, loss of the term they expected to lose.

 

[Stizzle]

I'm one of the few who doesn't see the Flyers as beggars to rid themselves of Vinny--at least not this offseason.

It can't be anymore obvious. If you can't see it, you're blind.

 

[kyuss]

It can't be anymore obvious. If you can't see it, you're blind.

Lay it out. Explain it to like I'm a six year old. Do you have some inside info about Hextall agreeing to a deal, Vinny waiving and the other GM asking for more? Make a list of all the great things you can do without VL and with his 4.5mill hit. Post a roster with your superb vision of the Flyers sans Lecavalier. Is he a locker room cancer? What's the issue? Do you have any information other than a couple articles speculating on a VL move? Are those articles any different than the ones speculating our moves of Coburn for a couple of 2's?

It's easy to drive a bandwagon and spit snarky comments out the window. Step out of the bully pulpit and add something to the discussion.

 

[Stizzle]

It's been explained a 100 times by a 100 different people on this board. It's 4am and I don't have the patience or energy.

 

[kyuss]

It's been explained a 100 times by a 100 different people on this board. It's 4am and I don't have the patience or energy.

I've seen a ton of "if Vinny's gone by the end of this off-season, I'll be happy" posts. I rarely see any reasoning behind them, or any ideas for the future of the club without Vinny. In fact, the few people who post reasoning behind moving Vinny usually have reasons to keep him.

I thought maybe if the Vinny cannon was so ready to fire you might have some evidence copied and ready to paste. If you can't figure out a reason to move Vinny better than "lots of other people want to" by October, why should Hextall?

 

[Zod]

Because the contract is an albatross--we really can't be stuck with it for the full term.

Because he's awful when not playing center--we have too many centers he isn't better than, he was originally open to playing on RW, but we have too many RWers he isn't better than. There's openings at LW, and he's godawful there.

After his initial start, he was best on the fourth line. No cap team in there right mind can keep someone with his cap hit on the fourth line for that long.

If we can move Schenn to LW successfully, Vinny could work here for a year or two (though he'd be holding up Laughton's progression from getting beyond the fourth line.) He's already breaking down now--while the next year or so might be okay, he clearly won't be through '18. Since we have cap issues now, and Lecavalier is clearly a bad fit for this team in its current state, he is the ideal candidate to move if we can make a trade work.

 

[Tripod]

I've seen a ton of "if Vinny's gone by the end of this off-season, I'll be happy" posts. I rarely see any reasoning behind them, or any ideas for the future of the club without Vinny. In fact, the few people who post reasoning behind moving Vinny usually have reasons to keep him.

I thought maybe if the Vinny cannon was so ready to fire you might have some evidence copied and ready to paste. If you can't figure out a reason to move Vinny better than "lots of other people want to" by October, why should Hextall?

In fairness, the fact that Hextall has given Vinny's agent permission to seek a trade does show that he is looking to move him.

 

[OzFlyers]

I would rather have Vinny on this team then ******* Ott!

 

[Tripod]

People forget how Vinny looked good early in the season before getting hurt. He had 9 goals in 20games.

 

[kyuss]

People forget how Vinny looked good early in the season before getting hurt. He had 9 goals in 20games.

It's amazing what a guy can do without a fractured cranium and spine.

 

[flyershockey]

It's amazing what a guy can do without a fractured cranium and spine.

Yeah, people have really gotten carried away with the Vinny hate. I want him moved, but it has almost nothing to do with me thinking he's washed up, horrible, not worth his cap hit, etc.

I just think he's a luxury piece on this team, and his money can be used for either future extensions (Voracek, Couturier, Schenn and Coburn all in two years) or fixing other weaknesses on the roster. There's also the problem with him not really having a spot on the roster. He's a natural centerman for a team that's loaded in that position.

I do think Vinny has a couple years of solid production left in him if he can come back healthy next year. A team weak at center would be foolish not to look at him and his relatively cheap cap hit. I mean really, he's making 500,000.00 dollars less than Grabovski and a full 1,000,000.00 dollars less than Bolland. There's a market out there for him. Teams just know that Hextall wants to move him and they're playing hardball.

 

[Prongo]

Got it figured out....

Trade coburn+ to Colorado for ROR. Then let him hold out but tell him that we will just sign him after the official season starts when pronger goes on LTIR. Our defense might suffer for a year but with the youth coming in we have a very bright future. Thank me next year when ROR and Ryan are flanking Giroux.

 

[Willis88]

Got it figured out....

Trade coburn+ to Colorado for ROR. Then let him hold out but tell him that we will just sign him after the official season starts when pronger goes on LTIR. Our defense might suffer for a year but with the youth coming in we have a very bright future. Thank me next year when ROR and Ryan are flanking Giroux.

Give Hextall a call. I'm in

 

[Willis88]

welp, Frank Severalli says that as of yesterday afternoon, Poile is still interested in Vinny

 

[Prongo]

welp, Frank Severalli says that as of yesterday afternoon, Poile is still interested in Vinny

I just posted it in the other thread. I also made a few comments to Frank on twitter. His numbers aren't correct with the bonuses in the contract I believe. We can't retain 50% because of them.

14.5(total salary)-2.5(signing bonus)=12(amount we can actually retain) We can retain 50% of 12 which comes around 41% of the whole contract remaining.

 

[Willis88]

I just posted it in the other thread. I also made a few comments to Frank on twitter. His numbers aren't correct with the bonuses in the contract I believe. We can't retain 50% because of them.

14.5(total salary)-2.5(signing bonus)=12(amount we can actually retain) We can retain 50% of 12 which comes around 41% of the whole contract remaining.

Yeah, i'm never sure which thread to bring up Vinny in. Doesn't surprise me Frank's numbers are off at all.

 

[Curufinwe]

Sad that we have to do these guy's work for them.

 

[JinzoBlaze]

Lay it out. Explain it to like I'm a six year old. Do you have some inside info about Hextall agreeing to a deal, Vinny waiving and the other GM asking for more? Make a list of all the great things you can do without VL and with his 4.5mill hit. Post a roster with your superb vision of the Flyers sans Lecavalier. Is he a locker room cancer? What's the issue? Do you have any information other than a couple articles speculating on a VL move? Are those articles any different than the ones speculating our moves of Coburn for a couple of 2's?

It's easy to drive a bandwagon and spit snarky comments out the window. Step out of the bully pulpit and add something to the discussion.

Read this post. Spot on.

Because the contract is an albatross--we really can't be stuck with it for the full term.

Because he's awful when not playing center--we have too many centers he isn't better than, he was originally open to playing on RW, but we have too many RWers he isn't better than. There's openings at LW, and he's godawful there.

After his initial start, he was best on the fourth line. No cap team in there right mind can keep someone with his cap hit on the fourth line for that long.

If we can move Schenn to LW successfully, Vinny could work here for a year or two (though he'd be holding up Laughton's progression from getting beyond the fourth line.) He's already breaking down now--while the next year or so might be okay, he clearly won't be through '18. Since we have cap issues now, and Lecavalier is clearly a bad fit for this team in its current state, he is the ideal candidate to move if we can make a trade work.

 

[Jumping]

I want Vinnie to go because he represents the old style Flyers... patch, patch, patch. Hexy is building a new style... develop young guys who can grow into Cup contenders... something Holmgren tried once (and it worked) but hasn't tried sine the decline of management faith in Richards, Carter, etc...

 

[DecadesofFutility]

Because the contract is an albatross--we really can't be stuck with it for the full term.

Because he's awful when not playing center--we have too many centers he isn't better than, he was originally open to playing on RW, but we have too many RWers he isn't better than. There's openings at LW, and he's godawful there.

After his initial start, he was best on the fourth line. No cap team in there right mind can keep someone with his cap hit on the fourth line for that long.

He's already breaking down now--while the next year or so might be okay, he clearly won't be through '18. Since we have cap issues now, and Lecavalier is clearly a bad fit for this team in its current state, he is the ideal candidate to move if we can make a trade work.

The Flyers need to upgrade team speed, reduce future cap costs, and cleanup the bad contracts left by Homer.
Vinny was a mistake from day one, we had no need of another center.
A winger we could have used, but a center- no, bad use of salary cap.

 

[Adam Warlock]

I am probably in the minority here, but I have been pretty disappointed in the way Hextall has handled things so far. I get it...Vinny does not fit here and is the obvious choice to move...but he also is a difficult asset to move. It seems like Hextalls whole offseason is revolving around moving Vinny...and I think it was a big mistake going into the summer assuming that would happen.

If he knew his team had an issue with cap space...and he knew he was willing to move Hartnell...that was the time and the place to get cap space. I like Umberger, and I think he will fit in well here...but that move still makes very little sense to me because RJ makes basically the same amount of money as Hartnell. Now, I don't know what offers were on the table...and I don't know how the NMC factored in...but I find it hard to believe that they couldn't find a deal where they could clear at least half of his salary.

The other mystery to me is Grossmann. Seriously...everything I read from beat writers and the organization makes me have a Zoolander "it feels like I am taking crazy pills!" moment. HE IS THE OBVIOUS CHOICE TO MOVE. He is redundant with L. Schenn here...and if a team is willing to give Orpik 5 years at 5 Mil...surely some team out there would chalk up a 5th rounder at the draft for Nick. Yet no...he remains. Not one rumor or cough of speculation from any media outlet about him being moved. It makes NO sense to me.

Like I said, ideally Vinny should be moved...but Hextall could have done a lot of other things in the mean time. Between Grossmann and Hartnell...he could've saved 4-6 mil in cap space and gone into free agency with some flexibility and not be living and dying by Vinny.

 

[dats81]

The Flyers need to upgrade team speed, reduce future cap costs, and cleanup the bad contracts left by Homer.
Vinny was a mistake from day one, we had no need of another center.
A winger we could have used, but a center- no, bad use of salary cap.

One of the youngest teams in the NHL, having missed the playoffs last season, having a 21 year old and a 19 year old as #2 and #3 centers, lacking leadership and struggling with inconsistency and you don't want to admit that adding a Veteran former allstar center made any sense at that time???

Too much money, term, I agree but hindsight is always 20/20.

...and Brayden Schenn still doesn't look like a fulltime #2 center to me today.

 

[KrazyKat]

Would we be getting a center back for lecavalier? Because if schenn is moving to wing then there 2 empty spots on the center position

 

[kyuss]

Read this post. Spot on.

I did. I agree. Read post #51.

I fully understand why the Flyers would want to move VL. I don't understand why the Flyers should retain salary and add assets to accomplish this. If the guy truly has negative trade value, don't trade him.

 

[flyersfan187]

People forget how Vinny looked good early in the season before getting hurt. He had 9 goals in 20games.

His defensive game and positioning was bad all season though. If you look at LA all their centers play defense really well and Hexy I bet learned from that which is why I could see Ott coming in and them keeping Schenn at wing.