Value of: Cap dumps (Exp. 2025) to Flames

[McJedi]

Son...that was Stinger, not Iceman!
But remember, if you screw up just this much with other TG quotes, you'll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog sh!t out of Hong Kong
;-)

Touché.

 

[McJedi]

They took on Kuzmenko. They just didn’t want Johansen. He sucks and is irredeemable as an NHLer

Totally agree. As for OP said. Cap dumps. Kuzmenko isn’t a dump. That’s a decent player that needed to go the other way to match salaries.

Totally different exercise.

RyJo is the definition of a cap dump as the OP requested.

 

[User1996]

If the owners aren't willing to retain, why would they take a bad contract?

They retained?

 

[HugeInTheShire]

They retained?

Only on deals for the rest of the season, they wouldn't do it for Markstrom.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Only on deals for the rest of the season, they wouldn't do it for Markstrom.

They would have but NJ wasn't willing to meet the price that Calgary deemed necessary for multi year retention.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

They would have but NJ wasn't willing to meet the price that Calgary deemed necessary for multi year retention.

Rumors are that Calgary's owner nixed the deal because of multi year retention. I guess they're just rumors though, maybe it was the Devils who backed out.

 

[NinjaTurtle]

The thesis of this tread was ruined by Sportsnet earlier today.

The Avs offered the Flames a 2025 1st for Tanev + a cap dump. And you picked a different deal around a lowish level prospect + 2nd round pick instead because, and I paraphrase Sportsnet... "the Flames didn't want the RyJo contract". A $4MM 2025 expiring contract, exactly what you're looking at above.

So you are offering something your front office seems uninterested in doing.

This OP is something along the lines of what Ice Man said to Mav, "your ego is writing checks your body can't cash". I don't think your owner or GM has any desire to do what you're suggesting here.

I think Ryan Johansen shouldn’t be viewed the same as every other cap dump. There is obviously something off with his work ethic or attitude, and can’t blame the Flames organization from wanting to keep that away from the younger guys breaking in to the league.

I still think it’s possible Calgary takes on a cap dump but I’d expect someone who tries hard and has a good reputation that just isn’t producing to their cap hit, like a Cody Ceci type.

 

[hurdemz]

There are some empty calorie cap hits like Tavaras after bonus money is paid.

Tavares isn't a cap dump.

 

[MakeCgyGreatAgain]

I'd do this. Then we wouldn't have to worry about possibly sending you guys our 1st.

Floridas first

 

[Fig]

Rumors are that Calgary's owner nixed the deal because of multi year retention. I guess they're just rumors though, maybe it was the Devils who backed out.

No, the rumors of Flames ownership hating retention has a long track record. Prior to this year, the last retention was Rittich and prior to that, it must have been almost multiple decades.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

No, the rumors of Flames ownership hating retention has a long track record. Prior to this year, the last retention was Rittich and prior to that, it must have been almost multiple decades.

I'm aware, the guy that I was talking to said they were willing to but NJ wouldn't pay the price. My thinking was there was no reasonable price that could have been paid, but maybe Calgary asked for the moon to even consider retention and NJ backed out.

 

[Fig]

I'm aware, the guy that I was talking to said they were willing to but NJ wouldn't pay the price. My thinking was there was no reasonable price that could have been paid, but maybe Calgary asked for the moon to even consider retention and NJ backed out.

Ah I get what you mean then. I mean the dudes basically decided to ship Regehr out just to get rid of Kotalik. I really don't get why they sealed off that type of GM tool.

 

[Jared Dunn]

He's actually played pretty well this season so wouldn't really pay anything to dump his final year but y'all can take Armia if you need to hit the cap floor

 

[HighLifeMan]

Ah I get what you mean then. I mean the dudes basically decided to ship Regehr out just to get rid of Kotalik. I really don't get why they sealed off that type of GM tool.

I really don't think there is any evidence to suggest that it was "sealed off" though. Calgary just hasn't been in the organizational mindset of maximizing and selling off it assets at any point over the last twenty odds years. Retention has only become common place in recent years anyways.

Now it wouldn't surprise me if Edwards has placed a higher valuation on the cost of retention than other organizations have which may cause some headaches, and hiccups along the way.

 

[SirloinUB]

Me, when my team is potentially adding a cap dump/dead weight contract: it will cost your arm, leg and 2 1st round picks.


Me when my team is trying to dump a bad multi-year contract: you will take a 7th and thank me for it.

 

[wintersej]

With the cap going up, finally, just don’t think one year cap dumps will have much value anymore.

 

[StreetHawk]

Flames will have 18.7m in cap space with only Kylington to worry about (and should only cost roughly the same cap hit), so I’d say over 16m left.


Are there any teams wanting to pay up a very good pick/prospect + their cap dump to give them the ability to sign/re-sign other players?

I think Calgary missed the window of the flat cap. Those who had cap room during the Covid cap freeze made out like bandits. Cap is rising and thus I think that alleviates some issues for teams. Not as desperate. Can still get assets, but maybe not as good as that 3 year window was for the rebuilding clubs.

 

[DFF]

Not sure where this is coming from other than Fitzgerald.

Flames are 100% willing to retain. When Fitzgerald expects you to retain for free, over 3 seasons, then it is an easy no.

Flames were going to retain on Zadorov to Toronto, but Toronto barely beat out Vancouver's offer with no retention. Tanev got retained. Hanifin got retained. Conroy has specifically stated that the Flames are looking to take bad cap in exchange for sweeteners already, or to work as middle-men between two teams.

That whole Markstrom thing was just funny. Extortion vs low-ball offers. Nobody knows what the real offers were, especially with and without retention.

Have they ever retained other than expired contracts?

I don’t think so. It’s one thing to retain a couple months when you are out of it.

 

[Reinhart]

Have they ever retained other than expired contracts?

I don’t think so. It’s one thing to retain a couple months when you are out of it.

Well, they were negotiating the Markstrom deal with NJ, and a component of that was retention over the remainder of that deal. One of the rumours stated that the Flames didn't think they were being compensated enough for that retention. I think that's a solid indicator that they are willing to do so, but that they won't do it for free.

 

[DFF]

Well, they were negotiating the Markstrom deal with NJ, and a component of that was retention over the remainder of that deal. One of the rumours stated that the Flames didn't think they were being compensated enough for that retention. I think that's a solid indicator that they are willing to do so, but that they won't do it for free.

Sure, but the fact is they have never done it and still don’t until we see it

That’s not what they want to do

 

[Fig]

I really don't think there is any evidence to suggest that it was "sealed off" though. Calgary just hasn't been in the organizational mindset of maximizing and selling off it assets at any point over the last twenty odds years. Retention has only become common place in recent years anyways.

Now it wouldn't surprise me if Edwards has placed a higher valuation on the cost of retention than other organizations have which may cause some headaches, and hiccups along the way.

Isn't that basically the same thing if he puts a value so high there's almost no ability to use it? He was seemingly fine with buyouts over retention, but perhaps you're right.

 

[Haatley]

I recall the premise being along the lines of "we're not paying someone to play somewhere else"

It's not a smart premise, but we're dealing with a billionaire here, not a real person.

How is that not a smart premise?

 

[McJedi]

I think Ryan Johansen shouldn’t be viewed the same as every other cap dump. There is obviously something off with his work ethic or attitude, and can’t blame the Flames organization from wanting to keep that away from the younger guys breaking in to the league.

I still think it’s possible Calgary takes on a cap dump but I’d expect someone who tries hard and has a good reputation that just isn’t producing to their cap hit, like a Cody Ceci type.

In the rating of dumps, RyJos contract is just one year, but it smells awful for that season.

The Avs just crushed you guys last night. It’s a bit painful for me to see Hubie like this. He was so good in Florida for those last few years.

The guy I saw last night has fallen off a cliff. It’s clearly more mental than physical. He’s got the yips.

Calgary needs to bottom out and get some really high picks. You need a few star level talents you gotta pick in the top 7 or so picks.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Treliving says hi

Leafs don't have any truly bad cap dumps.

Most of the roster exspires over the next 18 months.

 

[bernmeister]

Goodrow 3,641,667 another 3 seasons after this.
Rs retain 1.6+ making it an even 2 per, at which pt he has positive value.

Will send a 6th for each of the 3 last yrs.
He's ok now after recovering from fractured jaw + other injuries, but cap space recovery is a priority, depending on cost.

Deal?