Value of: Cap dumps (Exp. 2025) to Flames

[CraigsList]

Flames will have 18.7m in cap space with only Kylington to worry about (and should only cost roughly the same cap hit), so I’d say over 16m left.


Are there any teams wanting to pay up a very good pick/prospect + their cap dump to give them the ability to sign/re-sign other players?

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[HugeInTheShire]

If the owners aren't willing to retain, why would they take a bad contract?

 

[Double Dion]

I doubt you're getting a very good pick or prospect for a 1 year dump. Only we're dumb enough to trade a 1st for a dump that nets a 1st 2 years later. We could potentially get a 2nd or 3rd to take a dump back. Looking at players like Ceci, Faksa, Suter, Schmidt. These are all short term deals that might get you a 2nd or 3rd.

The real value comes in taking the putrid, franchise killing deals. Campbell, Jones, Couture, Bob ect.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

If the owners aren't willing to retain, why would they take a bad contract?

I recall the premise being along the lines of "we're not paying someone to play somewhere else"

It's not a smart premise, but we're dealing with a billionaire here, not a real person.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

I recall the premise being along the lines of "we're not paying someone to play somewhere else"

It's not a smart premise, but we're dealing with a billionaire here, not a real person.

Facts! Who knows maybe they'll do it, but I doubt it lol

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

Flames owners sound like they want to save money while they lose. So you'd have to take on cap dumps where their salary is a lot lower than their cap hit.

 

[Lockin17]

Gallagher + CGY first for Futures ;-)

 

[DFF]

Treliving says hi

 

[ManofSteel55]

If the owners aren't willing to retain, why would they take a bad contract?

Because the owners are idiots and wouldn't realize that a bad contract has negative value as long as Flames management can convince them they are good players and can afford them. Overpaying someone is far different than paying someone to play for the opposition.

That said, they will probably be looking for high cap hit, low salary scenarios.

 

[Djp]

Flames owners sound like they want to save money while they lose. So you'd have to take on cap dumps where their salary is a lot lower than their cap hit.

There are some empty calorie cap hits like Tavaras after bonus money is paid.

 

[Reinhart]

Not sure where this is coming from other than Fitzgerald.

Flames are 100% willing to retain. When Fitzgerald expects you to retain for free, over 3 seasons, then it is an easy no.

Flames were going to retain on Zadorov to Toronto, but Toronto barely beat out Vancouver's offer with no retention. Tanev got retained. Hanifin got retained. Conroy has specifically stated that the Flames are looking to take bad cap in exchange for sweeteners already, or to work as middle-men between two teams.

That whole Markstrom thing was just funny. Extortion vs low-ball offers. Nobody knows what the real offers were, especially with and without retention.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Gallagher + CGY first for Futures ;-)

I'd do this. Then we wouldn't have to worry about possibly sending you guys our 1st.

 

[McJedi]

Gallagher + CGY first for Futures ;-)

That isn't a bad idea at all. I'm sure the Flames would love to control that pick again.

 

[McJedi]

The thesis of this tread was ruined by Sportsnet earlier today.

The Avs offered the Flames a 2025 1st for Tanev + a cap dump. And you picked a different deal around a lowish level prospect + 2nd round pick instead because, and I paraphrase Sportsnet... "the Flames didn't want the RyJo contract". A $4MM 2025 expiring contract, exactly what you're looking at above.

So you are offering something your front office seems uninterested in doing.

This OP is something along the lines of what Ice Man said to Mav, "your ego is writing checks your body can't cash". I don't think your owner or GM has any desire to do what you're suggesting here.

 

[Mobiandi]

The thesis of this tread was ruined by Sportsnet earlier today.

The Avs offered the Flames a 2025 1st for Tanev + a cap dump. And you picked a different deal around a lowish level prospect + 2nd round pick instead because, and I paraphrase Sportsnet... "the Flames didn't want the RyJo contract". A $4MM 2025 expiring contract, exactly what you're looking at above.

So you are offering something your front office seems uninterested in doing.

This OP is something along the lines of what Ice Man said to Mav, "your ego is writing checks your body can't cash". I don't think your owner or GM has any desire to do what you're suggesting here.

They took on Kuzmenko. They just didn’t want Johansen. He sucks and is irredeemable as an NHLer

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Gallagher + CGY first for Futures ;-)

I'd do this. Then we wouldn't have to worry about possibly sending you guys our 1st.

Doesn't end then and he is f***ing atrocious.

It's also not Calgary's 1st and in all likelihood Florida will be good next year, so Calgary gets to keep their pick and Montreal gets a pick around 23rd.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I'm not sure the value of cap dumps will be what it was in the flat cap era, it depends on term of players. I don't think there will be a huge market for deals expiring in 2025.

Gallagher + CGY first for Futures ;-)

I know some Habs fans want something like this, but its not something Habs management would do. Beyond the fact that they like having Gallagher in the room, if you include LTIR Montreal has just as much room as Calgary does and just Xhekaj to sign, they don't actually need cap space.

 

[HighLifeMan]

The thesis of this tread was ruined by Sportsnet earlier today.

The Avs offered the Flames a 2025 1st for Tanev + a cap dump. And you picked a different deal around a lowish level prospect + 2nd round pick instead because, and I paraphrase Sportsnet... "the Flames didn't want the RyJo contract". A $4MM 2025 expiring contract, exactly what you're looking at above.

So you are offering something your front office seems uninterested in doing.

This OP is something along the lines of what Ice Man said to Mav, "your ego is writing checks your body can't cash". I don't think your owner or GM has any desire to do what you're suggesting here.

No.. Calgary determined that the Dallas deal was superior in value - which it was.

 

[Lockin17]

I'm not sure the value of cap dumps will be what it was in the flat cap era, it depends on term of players. I don't think there will be a huge market for deals expiring in 2025.



I know some Habs fans want something like this, but its not something Habs management would do. Beyond the fact that they like having Gallagher in the room, if you include LTIR Montreal has just as much room as Calgary does and just Xhekaj to sign, they don't actually need cap space.

In 2 years Habs we'll have these players to sign
Slaf : 7.8mil
Ghule : 6.5mil
RHP : 3mil
WIFI : 4mil
Harris : 2.5mil
Struble : 3.5mil
Kovacevic : 2mil
Dvorak : 3mil
Evans : 2.5mil
Primeau : 2.5mil
UFA : 7mil

Then rebuild should be over so MTL might signs a big UFA as well.
Gally's contract will be a pain then and have 2 more years to go.

 

[Double Dion]

No.. Calgary determined that the Dallas deal was superior in value - which it was.

This draft is about 15 players deep from what I see based on the WHL guys ranked. There's a couple of guys who will develop later like Basha maybe. But Tanner Howe is a projected late 1st. He would have been a 4th rounder last year.

 

[Larry Hanson]

Some bad takes in here. The Flames have retained on 2 contracts in the last month and would have retained on a 3rd if the Markstrom trade had gone through. They are willing to retain but not for free.

As for the owner being cheap, since when?
They have spent to the cap every year, bought out contracts, paid multiple coaches every year. The owner isn't cheap but he doesn't like throwing money away for nothing.

As for the OP, I doubt the Flames take on pure cap dumps on garbage players. If the player can contribute but is overpaid that's a different story. Eg. Tavares sure, Campbell hell no.

 

[Double Dion]

Some bad takes in here. The Flames have retained on 2 contracts in the last month and would have retained on a 3rd if the Markstrom trade had gone through. They are willing to retain but not for free.

As for the owner being cheap, since when?
They have spent to the cap every year, bought out contracts, paid multiple coaches every year. The owner isn't cheap but he doesn't like throwing money away for nothing.

As for the OP, I doubt the Flames take on pure cap dumps on garbage players. If the player can contribute but is overpaid that's a different story. Eg. Tavares sure, Campbell hell no.

Bolded is an interesting name. I think there's almost no chance he waives, but that would be one that makes sense. Say you got Tavares for their 2026 3rd and 2027 2nd. That's a move I'd be happy with and a good way to weaponize cap space.

 

[maxim84]

The thesis of this tread was ruined by Sportsnet earlier today.

The Avs offered the Flames a 2025 1st for Tanev + a cap dump. And you picked a different deal around a lowish level prospect + 2nd round pick instead because, and I paraphrase Sportsnet... "the Flames didn't want the RyJo contract". A $4MM 2025 expiring contract, exactly what you're looking at above.

So you are offering something your front office seems uninterested in doing.

This OP is something along the lines of what Ice Man said to Mav, "your ego is writing checks your body can't cash". I don't think your owner or GM has any desire to do what you're suggesting here.

Son...that was Stinger, not Iceman!
But remember, if you screw up just this much with other TG quotes, you'll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog sh!t out of Hong Kong
;-)

 

[Captain Mountain]

In 2 years Habs we'll have these players to sign
Slaf : 7.8mil
Ghule : 6.5mil
RHP : 3mil
WIFI : 4mil
Harris : 2.5mil
Struble : 3.5mil
Kovacevic : 2mil
Dvorak : 3mil
Evans : 2.5mil
Primeau : 2.5mil
UFA : 7mil

Then rebuild should be over so MTL might signs a big UFA as well.
Gally's contract will be a pain then and have 2 more years to go.

1) I think you're overrating the quality of some of those players and ignoring the fact that the guys get traded.
2) That's an argument to pay to move Gallagher in 2 years (if he is still healthy enough to play then).
3) Rebuilds don't work that way, you don't declare it over x years from now.
4) Including LTIR, Montreal could have as much as 50 mil available to sign those players. They'll be fine unless their rebuild is so wildly successful that it defies all expectations.

 

[Double Dion]

1) I think you're overrating the quality of some of those players and ignoring the fact that the guys.
2) That's an argument to pay to move Gallagher in 2 years (if he is still healthy enough to play then).
3) Rebuilds don't work that way, you don't declare it over x years from now.
4) Including LTIR, Montreal could have as much as 50 mil available to sign those players. They'll be fine unless their rebuild is so wildly successful that it defies all expectations.

I think Montreal will eventually just LTIR Gallagher. It'll come with a cushy org job. Maybe rub him down with Marian Hossa so he's "allergic to his equipment."