Post-Game Talk: Canucks vs Blue Jackets

[Flik]

Woof.

Glad I decided to skip watching this game.

 

[absolute garbage]

What does WD have to do with how the team played? That was on them.

I know right. I mean, what's the point of having a coach in the first place? It's not like he's on the ice or anything, just an irrelevant person when you really think about it. Spend his salary on scouting so you can get better players who actually "play" the game IMO.

---

But seriously, this game was a textbook example of a career minor league coach who is in a situation that is way over his head.

 

[EpochLink]

Putrid performance, just terrible

 

[tantalum]

And nobody from the media had the balls to point out the Vey and Dorsett played more minutes than Henrik and Daniel. The two worst players on the roster had more ice time than our two of our top 3 players.

Yawn.

That might be because they didn't. In fact, Vey, Mathias and Dorsett had the least icetime on the night. Throw Bonino and Weber onto that sub-14 minute pile.

The worst 5 players on the night from my view did have the least icetime. The lesser players did gain icetime in the third but that is pretty standard when down by 3 or 4.

 

[m9]

Team came out and player well tonight. Dumb decision by Dorsett to fight when we're up 2-0 and have all the momentum, but not the end of the world. Bad goal by Lack to make it 2-1, but again shouldn't be the end of the world.

What was extremely concerning is how the team folded after the weak goal. Lack has been bailing them out consistently for the last month, and when they have a chance to pick him up ... nothing. Just a terrible effort level through the 2nd half of the game.

- Horvat line was good (especially early) and the Sedins and Burrows did well. Tanev was sublime as usual. Everyone else ... blech.


- Vrbata, Bonino, Matthias all horrible. Going through the motions, losing all kinds of puck battles. Bonino probably hurting but the others no excuse.

- Vey is just awful. AHL player. Done with him and hope not to see him again this year. Useless player.

- Sbisa-Bieksa were bleeding odd-man rushes, as usual. Didn't help that they seemed to be continually on with Vey. Sbisa should be scratched so we can ice the Stanton-Bieksa pair that actually works.

- Hamhuis started well, but was one of the culprits in the late-game fade.

- Lack didn't have his best game and the 2-1 goal was bad, but his team really hung him out to dry after that.

- PP still awful. Will kill us in the playoffs. Player selection still hilariously bad.

The coaching stuff is a bit open to interpretation so I left that out, but I really agree with everything in here.

 

[Proto]

Yup, just a terribly coached game. So many things wrong. Starts with Sbisa and Bieksa together ... no excuse for this after how bad this pairing has been every time it's tried. Vey a disaster ... plays 14 minutes against good competition and gets destroyed. Dorsett again overplayed. Out-line matched at home.

The point of rolling 4 lines all season is that your core guys are fresh when it matters. Well, it matters now. In a game like this, our top players should having the living daylights played out of them, and the Veys should be getting 5 minutes. Sedins should be playing the full 2 minutes on the PP. It seems like Willie's idea of 'aggressive coaching' is pulling the goalie with 5 minutes left when we're down by 3 goals and the game is over.

If this guy coaches like this in the playoffs, he'll be shredded.

__________

Team came out and player well tonight. Dumb decision by Dorsett to fight when we're up 2-0 and have all the momentum, but not the end of the world. Bad goal by Lack to make it 2-1, but again shouldn't be the end of the world.

What was extremely concerning is how the team folded after the weak goal. Lack has been bailing them out consistently for the last month, and when they have a chance to pick him up ... nothing. Just a terrible effort level through the 2nd half of the game.

- Horvat line was good (especially early) and the Sedins and Burrows did well. Tanev was sublime as usual. Everyone else ... blech.


- Vrbata, Bonino, Matthias all horrible. Going through the motions, losing all kinds of puck battles. Bonino probably hurting but the others no excuse.

- Vey is just awful. AHL player. Done with him and hope not to see him again this year. Useless player.

- Sbisa-Bieksa were bleeding odd-man rushes, as usual. Didn't help that they seemed to be continually on with Vey. Sbisa should be scratched so we can ice the Stanton-Bieksa pair that actually works.

- Hamhuis started well, but was one of the culprits in the late-game fade.

- Lack didn't have his best game and the 2-1 goal was bad, but his team really hung him out to dry after that.

- PP still awful. Will kill us in the playoffs. Player selection still hilariously bad.

100% agree with all this. Saved me a lot of typing.

I'd actually take Bieksa out and just play Stanton/Clendening. They were a lot steadier and moved the puck up the ice a lot easier. It would also mean they could put Clendening back on the power play instead of Edler, who is hilariously, catstrophically bad on the point. I don't know what happened there.

Also, starting Lack when he has the flu? Playing Daniel Sedin under 15 minutes? There are just a series of inexplicably stupid decisions by this coach every night. Painful to watch and makes the proposition of the playoffs terrifying -- you know, if they even make it there...

 

[vanuck]

And nobody from the media had the balls to point out the Vey and Dorsett played more minutes than Henrik and Daniel. The two worst players on the roster had more ice time than our two of our top 3 players.

Yawn.

Yeah, that's weird. Are the media just ignorant of these kinds of stats? Why would they not bring that up? I don't buy that they don't "have the balls". It's not like Willie has even given so much as a hairy eyeball to anyone. He's been nothing but polite to all of the media. It's not like he's inspiring fear in the media like Torts did.

Regardless of the reason why they're not asking these questions (whether just plain ignorance or the organization somehow has the media in its pocket) I'm disappointed nonetheless. It hasn't happened nearly enough this year I think, and for a thinking fan you'd like to see some answers.

All of the questions you ask in attempt to defend WD have easy answers. How can you sanely defend the ridiculous usage of Dorsett and Vey?

Exactly. Now imagine if the hard questions are asked and WD had to actually face up to them?

That might be because they didn't. In fact, Vey, Mathias and Dorsett had the least icetime on the night. Throw Bonino and Weber onto that sub-14 minute pile.

The worst 5 players on the night from my view did have the least icetime. The lesser players did gain icetime in the third but that is pretty standard when down by 3 or 4.

Dorsett got more 5v5 time than Daniel and Burrows, and almost as much as Henrik. Let that sink in... and in a crucial game that's when you go "WTF Willie?!"

 

[Barney Gumble]

That might be because they didn't. In fact, Vey, Mathias and Dorsett had the least icetime on the night. Throw Bonino and Weber onto that sub-14 minute pile.

The worst 5 players on the night from my view did have the least icetime. The lesser players did gain icetime in the third but that is pretty standard when down by 3 or 4.

In terms of even strength icetime, Dorsett had more even strength icetime than Daniel Sedin. Zero excuse for that especially when you consider Dorsett was off the ice for five minutes due to his fighting major.

 

[Proto]

So go back to the Torts style of coaching then? Good plan.

Uh, slight difference between playing the Sedins/Kesler 23-25 minutes every night for weeks on end and playing them less than Derek Dorsett at 5v5. Maybe there's some middle ground there? Naaaah.

Your comments read like the only purpose of them is to start an argument

 

[vanuck]

100% agree with all this. Saved me a lot of typing.

I'd actually take Bieksa out and just play Stanton/Clendening. They were a lot steadier and moved the puck up the ice a lot easier. It would also mean they could put Clendening back on the power play instead of Edler, who is hilariously, catstrophically bad on the point. I don't know what happened there.

Also, starting Lack when he has the flu? Playing Daniel Sedin under 15 minutes? There are just a series of inexplicably stupid decisions by this coach every night. Painful to watch and makes the proposition of the playoffs terrifying -- you know, if they even make it there...

Lack had the flu too? Man...

 

[Reckage]

Meh, these exhibition games are hard to watch. Turned this one off early.

No defensive structure, little bodychecking. Just a bunch of guys figure skating for a couple of hours.

When does the season begin?

 

[Proto]

Lack had the flu too? Man...

Yeah. Botch said he wouldn't say anything or use it as an excuse but it was more flu than general fatigue last night.

 

[tantalum]

In terms of even strength icetime, Dorsett had more even strength icetime than Daniel Sedin. Zero excuse for that especially when you consider Dorsett was off the ice for five minutes due to his fighting major.

The statement made was he had more icetime. That isn't true.

For EV icetime he did not have more than Henrik. He had a bit more than Daniel but that is really because the last 5 minutes of the game Daniel played 30 seconds and Dorsett nearly 2 minutes. Not that uncommon in an out of reach game to see that.

Through 2 periods the 4 lines were rolled as they had been all season and up until the last minute of the second the canucks were either ahead or tied. Again that icetime distribution isn't anything out of the ordinary at that point in time.

The problem last night had little to do with coaching choices IMO. The problem last night is that the roster fell back to what they did under AV and even Torts. They scored a couple of goals to go up 2-0 early in the second after a pretty strong first and stopped playing. It's as simple as that. Nothing to do with bottom 6 players getting more icetime in a decided game.

 

[Barney Gumble]

For EV icetime he did not have more than Henrik.

Well Henrik is center; player I compared him played the same position as him - left wing.

He had a bit more than Daniel but that is really because the last 5 minutes of the game Daniel played 30 seconds and Dorsett nearly 2 minutes. Not that uncommon in an out of reach game to see that.

Fair enough.

The problem last night had little to do with coaching choices IMO.

When has the pairing of Sbisa-Bieksa ever worked? Which two D were on the ice for the first two goals by the Blue Jackets? (team essentially folded after that).

Limited options available to be sure but change up the other pairings (or remove one of those two guys) to avoid that frankenstein matchup.

 

[m9]

100% agree with all this. Saved me a lot of typing.

I'd actually take Bieksa out and just play Stanton/Clendening. They were a lot steadier and moved the puck up the ice a lot easier. It would also mean they could put Clendening back on the power play instead of Edler, who is hilariously, catstrophically bad on the point. I don't know what happened there.

Also, starting Lack when he has the flu? Playing Daniel Sedin under 15 minutes? There are just a series of inexplicably stupid decisions by this coach every night. Painful to watch and makes the proposition of the playoffs terrifying -- you know, if they even make it there...

I don't see why we can't just take out Sbisa and Weber, put Bieksa with Hamhuis and then keep Stanton/Clendening together.

 

[tezgm99]

I used the first ever recording on my new PVR for this game, what a waste

 

[tantalum]

When has the pairing of Sbisa-Bieksa ever worked? Which two D were on the ice for the first two goals by the Blue Jackets? (team essentially folded after that).

Limited options available to be sure but change up the other pairings (or remove one of those two guys) to avoid that frankenstein matchup.

Honestly, Bieksa brings out the worst in every D-man not named Hamhuis that he plays with and even Hamhuis hasn't worked in quite some time. I love the guys passion and he seems like a great guy off the ice and all that but he has been a disaster on the ice for far too long. Not letting Sbisa off the hook at all, btw, but Bieksa has not been good. I'd imagine his numbers are as bad as Sbisa in most respects.

So yes pairing them both together is not a good thing but honestly I'm not sure what else can be done when you have 5 guys in Weber, Bieska, Sbisa, Stanton, and Clendenning that need considerable babysitting. One of the pairs is going to be a disaster because not one of those guys has stepped forward and shown the ability to anchor a pairing. 5 guys and only one babysitter available....Hamhuis.

So Hamhuis-Bieksa instead of Hamhuis-Weber and then a third pairing that is equally disastrous as the Sbisa-Bieksa pairing. I'm quite disappointed that neither Stanton nor Bieksa have stepped up this year.

The blueline needs significant work from #4-7. I think they need to bring in 3 guys for those 4 spots and allow for one guy to stay.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Those Ice times are embarrassing.

 

[Barney Gumble]

Honestly, Bieksa brings out the worst in every D-man not named Hamhuis that he plays with and even Hamhuis hasn't worked in quite some time. I love the guys passion and he seems like a great guy off the ice and all that but he has been a disaster on the ice for far too long. Not letting Sbisa off the hook at all, btw, but Bieksa has not been good. I'd imagine his numbers are as bad as Sbisa in most respects.

Can't help but think Bieksa isn't anywhere near 100% healthy. Might be better to give him some more time off if that's the case.

Sbisa seems alright (I've changed my opinion of him vs earlier in the season) as long as his partner isn't Bieksa or isn't shifted to the right side (which Willie had a habit of doing earlier in the season).

All of the players on the blueline are probably OK, it's just that a number of them just don't match up together all that well (whether the reason is having to play at less than 100% or bad chemistry) - except for Tanev of course.

 

[Proto]

I don't see why we can't just take out Sbisa and Weber, put Bieksa with Hamhuis and then keep Stanton/Clendening together.

Bieksa has been pretty bad this year and even worse after his injury. I'd rather just leave him out of the line-up and see if they can convince him to move this summer, but I'd be open to that suggestion as well.

 

[Grumbler]

Bieksa needs to be out of the line up.

 

[Bro Horvat]

turned it off after the 4th goal, brutal 2nd and 3rd periods.

 

[arsmaster*]

Honestly, Bieksa brings out the worst in every D-man not named Hamhuis that he plays with and even Hamhuis hasn't worked in quite some time. I love the guys passion and he seems like a great guy off the ice and all that but he has been a disaster on the ice for far too long. Not letting Sbisa off the hook at all, btw, but Bieksa has not been good. I'd imagine his numbers are as bad as Sbisa in most respects.

So yes pairing them both together is not a good thing but honestly I'm not sure what else can be done when you have 5 guys in Weber, Bieska, Sbisa, Stanton, and Clendenning that need considerable babysitting. One of the pairs is going to be a disaster because not one of those guys has stepped forward and shown the ability to anchor a pairing. 5 guys and only one babysitter available....Hamhuis.

So Hamhuis-Bieksa instead of Hamhuis-Weber and then a third pairing that is equally disastrous as the Sbisa-Bieksa pairing. I'm quite disappointed that neither Stanton nor Bieksa have stepped up this year.

The blueline needs significant work from #4-7. I think they need to bring in 3 guys for those 4 spots and allow for one guy to stay.

There is a post in Sbisa's thread that shows the only player who hasn't been dragged down by Sbisa this season is Frank Corrado is a tiny sample size.

Bieksa has been poor too.

------

With regards to the coaching decisions, there was an instance in the first period, on a non-icing where coach decided to put Linden Vey's line out for dzone draw against Ryan Johansen.

That is just not good. Stop trying to give the kid a vote of confidence and give a proper assignment, the 4th line.

Also, what was the deal with Horvat's line not getting a shift until the other lines had 2 or 3 shifts? This coach makes some headscratchers.

Horvat has shown he can handle tougher minutes than Vey, please play them accordingly coach.

There is literally no excuse for Horvat's line to get low minutes. They've been our 2nd most effective line for 8-10 weeks now.

 

[Huggy]

Glue factory meet bieksa

 

[crazychimp]

If Kass and Hollywood are ready to go:

Sedin-Sedin-Vrbata
Kenins-Horvat-Hansen
Higgins-Richardson-Burrows
Dorsett-Matthias-Kassian

Edler-Tanev
Hamhuis-Sbisa
Stanton-Clendening

I think both Bonino and Bieksa are both playing hurt, so give them some time off.

PP1

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Vrbata Clendening


PP2

Burrows-Horvat-Hansen
Edler-Tanev

Edit:
PP1: Sedin-Horvat-Sedin Let's start with the puck?