Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign Brock Boeser to 3 year deal worth 5.875 million annually. | #607

[Hoghandler]

No, but I’m not claiming that they did. I was looking for confirmation that they didn’t raise it, even with a different term, which you implied exists... but I haven’t seen it?

Every bit of information we have seen points to the Canucks standing firm at $7mil.

If there is anything out there that contradicts this, I would like to see it. Has anyone seen or heard anything that implied the Canucks were in fact willing to move off the $7mil?

 

[Bleach Clean]

Every bit of information we have seen points to the Canucks standing firm at $7mil.

If there is anything out there that contradicts this, I would like to see it. Has anyone seen or heard anything that implied the Canucks were in fact willing to move off the $7mil?

Can you source the information that suggests the Canucks did not move away from that original 7 by 6 offer, as per your original claim? Thanks.

 

[4Twenty]

Can't the Canucks sign Boeser in 2 years? Rumours are the cap could move sideways for a couple years...

Strongly disagree with your last sentence and it's why we won't find common ground on what constitutes the best deal here. Brock becoming a UFA, while Elias Pettersson is 26 years of age, just isn't my preferred option.

Yes, I believe they can....but why would Boeser do that? Sideways for two years with an expected boon in year 3 or 4 and you think the agent will lock in long term without accounting for that?

We're not going to find common ground because you won't tell me what you project Brock Boeser to be in 3 years...I've asked. 6 years is a long time. Maybe they won't want him for 8 years after the bridge? Maybe they drafted an even better player who is cheaper therefore they don't want to spend on Brock until age 33.

Brock becoming UFA after what I hoped were some kicks at the cup is definitely something I'd be willing to trade off, because it's going to be a helluva lot harder fitting them together when they're both making 8 figure AAV's.

It's hard to get a read on you....on one hand you want Boeser until 33, but you also don't think he'll be worth all that much....it'll be better for the discussion if you state what you project him to be.....I project him to be a 40 goal PPG player.

 

[Hoghandler]

Brock becoming UFA after what I hoped were some kicks at the cup is definitely something I'd be willing to trade off, because it's going to be a helluva lot harder fitting them together when they're both making 8 figure AAV's.

It's hard to get a read on you....on one hand you want Boeser until 33, but you also don't think he'll be worth all that much....it'll be better for the discussion if you state what you project him to be.....I project him to be a 40 goal PPG player.

Boeser would be 31 if they gave him a 7 year extension. That's a good time to get out from under a big ticket player.

What gives you the impression I don't think he will be worth all that much? I see him as a 1st line RW'er that hovers around a PPG.

Just not interested in having Brock become a UFA while Pettersson is 26 years of age. That's why the 3 year deal is preferable from where I sit.

 

[Hoghandler]

Can you source the information that suggests the Canucks did not move away from that original 7 by 6 offer, as per your original claim? Thanks.

That is the information everyone has been citing since the start of this discussion. Have you heard anything that contradicts that? If so, that could lend a bit of credence to the notion the Canucks couldn't fit the long term deal in.

 

[4Twenty]

Boeser would be 31 if they gave him a 7 year extension. That's a good time to get out from under a big ticket player.

What gives you the impression I don't think he will be worth all that much? I see him as a 1st line RW'er that hovers around a PPG.

Just not interested in having Brock become a UFA while Pettersson is 26 years of age. That's why the 3 year deal is preferable from where I sit.

I had assumed you didn't think he was going to be a bonafide 1st line RW who was PPG, because you didn't think he'd be worth $12m, considering a 27 year old first line winger just signed a deal for $11.6m and the cap is going to rise for the reasons I've already stated. 1st line wingers get 12-15% of the cap.

I understand not wanting him to be UFA when Pettersson is 26, but this bridge doesn't guarantee that. Boeser's camp can use arbitration to go UFA 5 years from now if that's there prerogative. Not saying that will happen, but it's a possibility that it seems you haven't accounted for.

Like I said, Boeser on a 6 year deal at under $8m per IMO would give the Canucks a better chance at a cup window in 3-6 years because of the difference between $7.5m and $12m+....it's easily conceivable that Boeser, Pettersson, and Hughes cost similarly to Matthews, Marner and Tavares in 3 years time....likely more.

 

[Bleach Clean]

That is the information everyone has been citing since the start of this discussion. Have you heard anything that contradicts that? If so, that could lend a bit of credence to the notion the Canucks couldn't fit the long term deal in.

There is no need for me to dig up information that contradicts your initial claim if you cannot source your initial claim.

The information that everyone has cited, to my knowledge, is that a 7m by 6yr offer was tabled in June. Sekeres sent a tweet out about it. That's all we know, I think, about what was tabled. You claim that there is information that this was all that was tabled. Where is this information? I'd like to see it.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I had assumed you didn't think he was going to be a bonafide 1st line RW who was PPG, because you didn't think he'd be worth $12m, considering a 27 year old first line winger just signed a deal for $11.6m and the cap is going to rise for the reasons I've already stated. 1st line wingers get 12-15% of the cap.

I understand not wanting him to be UFA when Pettersson is 26, but this bridge doesn't guarantee that. Boeser's camp can use arbitration to go UFA 5 years from now if that's there prerogative. Not saying that will happen, but it's a possibility that it seems you haven't accounted for.

Like I said, Boeser on a 6 year deal at under $8m per IMO would give the Canucks a better chance at a cup window in 3-6 years because of the difference between $7.5m and $12m+....it's easily conceivable that Boeser, Pettersson, and Hughes cost similarly to Matthews, Marner and Tavares in 3 years time....likely more.

Boeser at a sub-8m AAV for the long-term was an unbeatable standard. It was the best the team could have hoped for. Nothing following this will match that level of efficiency -- assuming he stays producing as a 1st line winger.

 

[4Twenty]

Because Brock will be a 25 year old RFA in 3 years and it puts the Canucks in a great position to make him a career Canuck.

Sign him for 6 years and he hits free agency at the age of 27.

The same reason I didn't like the 5 year deal the Leafs gave Auston Mathews.

I'm also not forecasting Brock to be a $12mil player in 2-3 years, especially with the cap potentially stagnating over the near term.

The same reason you don't like the Matthews deal is why you should've wanted a long term extension that bought UFA years.

Remember when Draisatl extended and everyone freaked? Yet in 5 years he'll be, scoring 50goals and 100 points for $8.5m, Matthews will be doing it for $20m, and 32 year old Jeff Skinner will be making $9m for less than 60 points I'd imagine.

Had Draisatl signed a bridge like Boeser just did and was an RFA this summer, how much more than $8.5m do you think he'd have got for 50g 105p?

 

[Hoghandler]

There is no need for me to dig up information that contradicts your initial claim if you cannot source your initial claim.

The information that everyone has cited, to my knowledge, is that a 7m by 6yr offer was tabled in June. Sekeres sent a tweet out about it. That's all we know, I think, about what was tabled. You claim that there is information that this was all that was tabled. Where is this information? I'd like to see it.

Everyone in this thread has been operating on the information that the Canucks offered $7mil and wouldn't move off it. I didn't bring a different perspective in this regard.

 

[Hoghandler]

The same reason you don't like the Matthews deal is why you should've wanted a long term extension that bought UFA years.

The Mathews deal sucked because it was only 5 years, and the Boeser deal wouldn't be ideal because it left him as a free agent at 27.

Had it been an 8 X 8 deal I would have been on board. 6 years didn't justify caving to Boeser's demands IMO. Term wasn't long enough.

 

[Hoghandler]

Boeser at a sub-8m AAV for the long-term was an unbeatable standard. It was the best the team could have hoped for. Nothing following this will match that level of efficiency -- assuming he stays producing as a 1st line winger.

$8mil X 8 years, sure. $8mil X 6 years, no way.

The Canucks window should be based around Elias Pettersson and Quinn Hughes. To have Brock become a UFA while our 2 other franchise players are 25 and 26 years old is not an 'unbeatable standard'. Far from it.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Everyone in this thread has been operating on the information that the Canucks offered $7mil and wouldn't move off it. I didn't bring a different perspective in this regard.

Can you link the posts? I think this should confirm that you do not have a source that suggests the Canucks were locked at the 7by6 offer. Therefore, your rationale that it was this Canucks refusal, and nothing else, forcing a short term deal has to be considered false.

That said, I would like to see who posted that the Canucks refused to offer anything above 7m AAV, and why? This probably helps those arguing that a $7.5m AAV may have gotten it done.

 

[4Twenty]

$8mil X 8 years, sure. $8mil X 6 years, no way.

The Canucks window should be based around Elias Pettersson and Quinn Hughes. To have Brock become a UFA while our 2 other franchise players are 25 and 26 years old is not an 'unbeatable standard'. Far from it.

Just like you suggested to me earlier, couldn't they negotiate an extension at any point after year 5?

I just think the idea of when he hits UFA being a stronger driver than having a competitive team when Pettersson and Hughes are in their 2nd contracts is completely backwards to my thought process.....and having to pay all 3 of these guys 7 figures in 4 years might mean the window never opens. That's my worry. I'm not worrying/or basing my plan on 11 years from now.

 

[timw33]

Not to go off on a tangent, but it is pretty hard to try and apply market principles to a capped league in terms of salaries.

Well the Carolina Hurricanes seem to be doing a pretty good job taking advantage of a tighter FA market by getting Gardiner and Dzingle for $7.375MM total. Or using $6.25MM in cap space they didn't need on Marleau this season to acquire a 1st round pick.

 

[Bleach Clean]

$8mil X 8 years, sure. $8mil X 6 years, no way.

The Canucks window should be based around Elias Pettersson and Quinn Hughes. To have Brock become a UFA while our 2 other franchise players are 25 and 26 years old is not an 'unbeatable standard'. Far from it.

Why are you saying 8m per? I said sub 8m AAV.

This isn't about windows. It's about cost efficiency over time. From this point on, the percentage cost of the cap increases for the same production. He will earn more relative to the overall cap number. That's why locking young players down to long-term deals is ideal for teams, and why agents are fighting that norm to get their RFAs on short term deals.

Edit: Even if you think the cap will stagnate, which you have also proposed, it's still better not to have to renegotiate with a $7.5m QO baseline for the next deal. It's better not to open things up again.

Whatever you're saying here just does not align with what teams try to do, ideally. I mean, even Benning tried to lock Boeser down to a 6 year deal in June. As bad as he is negotiating deals, he made the right move there.

 

[Hoghandler]

I just think the idea of when he hits UFA being a stronger driver than having a competitive team when Pettersson and Hughes are in their 2nd contracts is completely backwards to my thought process.....and having to pay all 3 of these guys 7 figures in 4 years might mean the window never opens. That's my worry. I'm not worrying/or basing my plan on 11 years from now.

The Leafs have 3 of the 7 highest paid players in the NHL. Is their window closed?

I'm talking about this team 6 years from now, not 11. When Quinn and Elias are 25 and 26 years of age - the time when they will likely be at their peak.

 

[Hoghandler]

This isn't about windows. It's about cost efficiency over time.

Whatever you're saying here just does not align with what teams try to do, ideally.

This is about windows. That should be the #1 consideration. Icing the best team while the elite core is in their prime years.

Would you have signed Boeser to a 5 year deal at $7.5mil, or the current one?

 

[Bleach Clean]

This is about windows. That should be the #1 consideration. Icing the best team while the elite core is in their prime years.

Would you have signed Boeser to a 5 year deal at $7.5mil, or the current one?

No, it isn't about windows. It's about cost certainty and efficiency. Windows are anecdotal phases that you cannot predict.

Let's put this another way: Let's say Hughes gets 7m AAV on his next deal and Pettersson gets 10m AAV on his next deal. Is the combination of Hughes-Horvat-Pettersson-Boeser quartet going to cost more overall in years 5 and 6, or less? (I use year 5 and 6 from now to align with your 25 and 26 prime for Pettersson). Choose between re-upping Boeser on a new deal, with a new AAV, and a 7.5m AAV that would have lasted 6 years.

 

[Hoghandler]

No, it isn't about windows. It's about cost certainty. Windows are anecdotal phases that you cannot predict.

I'll play along. Do you sign Boeser to a 5 year deal at $7.5mil, or the current one?

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'll play along. Do you sign Boeser to a 5 year deal at $7.5mil, or the current one?

Neither. A 5 year deal doesn't buy any UFA years and I would not sign him for 3 years.

Now please answer my question.

 

[4Twenty]

The Leafs have 3 of the 7 highest paid players in the NHL. Is their window closed?

I'm talking about this team 6 years from now, not 11. When Quinn and Elias are 25 and 26 years of age - the time when they will likely be at their peak.

Their window is not closed.

Do you think Vancouver and Toronto are in comparable places? Wouldn't you want to be able to add a Tavares like free agent to Bo, Brock, Elias and Quinn in 4 years when these guys are at their peaks? Like could you imagine if Brock was under $8m and they had space to add Auston Matthews/Seth Jones/Nathan Mackinnon type player?

You're overvaluing short-term flexibility and an ability to retain a 22 year old player for 11 years instead of actually winning. I want to win.

 

[timw33]

https://post.futurimedia.com/ckstam/playlist/listen-20040.html

Bob Mackenzie on 1040 this afternoon, was surprised the Boeser deal didn't get done at the draft.

 

[Canucko]

https://post.futurimedia.com/ckstam/playlist/listen-20040.html

Bob Mackenzie on 1040 this afternoon, was surprised the Boeser deal didn't get done at the draft.

Guess they couldn’t agree on a $$ amount - makes sense.

 

[Hoghandler]

Neither. A 5 year deal doesn't buy any UFA years and I would not sign him for 3 years.

Now please answer my question.

So it's all about year 6 for you then? You wouldn't do that deal at 5 years, but that 6th year is worth having Boeser hit unrestricted free agency at 27? Is that correct?

I can't make sense of your question...