Confirmed with Link: Canucks promote Todd Harvey to Director of Amateur Scouting

[Bleach Clean]

Jesus Christ. This is getting silly. What is the point you are trying to make? I’ve already clarified to you that my comment “totally in line from Jim Benning” was in reference to other shitty decisions, not hiring Brackett. And I’ve already acknowledged that this could be a good hire. So, again, what is the point your are trying to make?

If Linden was calling the shots, then it's his hire, which then breaks the premise that Benning hired Brackett and should as a result get leeway for a similar promotion here. There's no in house precedent for Benning doing this. The best we could do is look league wide for tenure before a promotion like this.

You've wasted your time. The best Krutov has put forward is that Harvey is middle aged, is an ex NHL player and Benning's previous hire was Brackett. The latter is incorrect, the middle point is largely irrelevant and the first point only matters in the context of grooming someone for the position.

 

[F A N]

Passive aggressive attacks on other posters are so lame.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

 

[Gus Adams]

Haha, honestly not sure if this is an intentionally or unintentionally ironic post, but well done either way.

Passive aggressive attacks on other posters are so lame.

 

[bandwagonesque]

So Benning made a decision, and we have very little information we can use to determine whether it's a good or bad decision. Of course, we know it's a bad decision, so we'll start from that premise and try to figure out why, even though we know virtually nothing. What we say won't make much sense, and most of it will either be tautological or increasingly detached from what we're trying to talk about, but we'll do this somehow. Damn it, we've got to. I'll put on a pot of coffee.

 

[F A N]

So what did Linden say at the time?

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

as much as hodgy just raised the bar pretty high with his dogged defence of a bad take into reductio ad absurdium, this one is an immediate contender for a new world record.

I'm not sure what I'm arguing as being absurd (or rather what you're accusing me of stating as an absurd argument.) I've conceded that my phrasing may have been wrong, not sure what else you're looking for.

 

[lawrence]

So Benning made a decision, and we have very little information we can use to determine whether it's a good or bad decision. Of course, we know it's a bad decision, so we'll start from that premise and try to figure out why, even though we know virtually nothing.

I said in the 2nd page of this thread we just have to root for him. Benning knows more. Maybe it had to do with the way Harvey talks about the prospects he's seen and Benning came out impress and that he should be given the opportunity? who knows. His 1st test comes in a few weeks. Of course we all know it's also a not so scouted draft so it may be hard to really judge Harvey's record until a few years later maybe. That's how hard it is. By than maybe Benning will be gone?

 

[Hodgy]

i don't think you did clarify this to me. i think i would remember it.

I have no idea how you can be so intentionally obtuse, all the while trying to maintain a condescending tone. My point from the very beginning was resume based. The reference to “totally in line with Benning” is that it was another bad decision.

Perhaps the temper tantrum you started throwing as soon as I criticized Benning clouded your memory. Of course you are not a Benning supporter though, right? In any event, my initial post was that it was a shitty hire, based on his resume, which was totally in line from Jim Benning. Why would you interpret this to just the Brackett hiring? Hasn’t Benning hired tons of other people. Isn’t such an interpretation strained. And yet even after I clarified my point you continued on with your tantrum.

so when predicting a hiring decision by benning would turn out badly because of benning's track record, you intended people to exclude the only other time benning filled the exact same position and it turned out really well.

but you just didn't say so.

got it. good chat.

Did I predict it would turn out badly because of Benning’s track record? Oh, wait, I literally said it was shitty based on his resume, not Benning’ record. Your memory and reading comprehension are really failing you here.

 

[Hodgy]

So Benning made a decision, and we have very little information we can use to determine whether it's a good or bad decision. Of course, we know it's a bad decision, so we'll start from that premise and try to figure out why, even though we know virtually nothing. What we say won't make much sense, and most of it will either be tautological or increasingly detached from what we're trying to talk about, but we'll do this somehow. Damn it, we've got to. I'll put on a pot of coffee.

God forbid anyone looks at Harvey’s resume and questions the decision based solely on his resume. What is the problem with that?

And honestly, after the last seven years, starting with the premise that a decision made by Benning is dumb, is frankly, eminently reasonable.

But don’t let me get in the way of your canned hissy fit. I know you have to fill a quota.

 

[bandwagonesque]

God forbid anyone looks at Harvey’s resume and questions the decision based solely on his resume. What is the problem with that?

Well, allowing for the sake of argument that Harvey having little experience necessarily makes him a poor hire, one problem is that you were wrong about it. You said this:

"Brackett had like 8 years of scouting experience before being promoted. Harvey had like two, although that’s probably being generous as he was actually promoted with an interim status with even less experience."

Harvey's Wikipedia entry says this:

"On July 24, 2017, the Storm announced that Harvey was leaving the OHL team to accept a position as an amateur scout with an unnamed NHL organization. It was later confirmed that he became a scout for the Vancouver Canucks. During the 2020 NHL off-season, Harvey was promoted to serve as the Canucks' director of amateur scouting, beginning with the 2020 NHL Entry Draft."

He's been a scout for the team for 4 years and was promoted after 3 seasons, and that promotion was made official and raised from interim status after 4. You also haven't compared the duration of his scouting career before the promotion, which seems to be the sole point of cleavage you've mentioned in his credentials, to anyone else's career but Brackett's.

 

[Ainec]

Thought Todd Bertuzzi

 

[F A N]

Steering the conversation to talking a bit about Bates, anyone know his history? He joined the Canucks when he was 23? years old? Don’t know much about him except that he is a Trump supporter.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Are we back to being OK with citing Drance as a source PoM? If so, I’ve got another excerpt from him I’d like you to acknowledge, Ok? It’s about the 2016 and 2017 drafts respectively.

Beautiful insight from the man who ousted Brackett, pumping up his subordinate that was perhaps key in the power struggle to get him out. Who just happens to have expanded his scouting duties just recently... What a coincidence!

Of course, Brackett had nothing but good things to say about these two gents on the way out, so nothing seems off there.

 

[rypper]

Steering the conversation to talking a bit about Bates, anyone know his history? He joined the Canucks when he was 23? years old? Don’t know much about him except that he is a Trump supporter.

Interesting they hired him so young. Looking into his staff profile at Elite Prospects, prior to the Canucks hiring him he was the director of hockey operations for the university of Vermont for 2 years. So as a 21 year old he held that position.

(admittedly I don't know a ton about how NCAA hockey programs are run, but looking at a few other teams, the ones that did fill that position, they were all by much older people.)

 

[mathonwy]

Steering the conversation to talking a bit about Bates, anyone know his history? He joined the Canucks when he was 23? years old? Don’t know much about him except that he is a Trump supporter.

Well that’s awesome.

 

[rypper]

Well that’s awesome.

If you look through his Twitter feed, it seems more like he's a republican who supported who the party nominated and none of the Trumper God emperor type bullshit. I only did a quick scroll though.

 

[mathonwy]

If you look through his Twitter feed, it seems more like he's a republican who supported who the party nominated and none of the Trumper God emperor type bullshit. I only did a quick scroll though.

I rely on you to let me know if I should be outraged.

 

[F A N]

Interesting they hired him so young. Looking into his staff profile at Elite Prospects, prior to the Canucks hiring him he was the director of hockey operations for the university of Vermont for 2 years. So as a 21 year old he held that position.

(admittedly I don't know a ton about how NCAA hockey programs are run, but looking at a few other teams, the ones that did fill that position, they were all by much older people.)

Ya, that's an awfully young age to get that position. I did briefly look at the rosters in the two years Bates was there and the years after and I don't think there was a name that I recognized.

Regardless, my understanding is that for years Bates worked under Smyl and all these NCAA UFAs were the work of pro scouts rather than the team's amateur scouts.

 

[rypper]

Ya, that's an awfully young age to get that position. I did briefly look at the rosters in the two years Bates was there and the years after and I don't think there was a name that I recognized.

Regardless, my understanding is that for years Bates worked under Smyl and all these NCAA UFAs were the work of pro scouts rather than the team's amateur scouts.

The names that caught my eye were Torrey Mitchell, Kevan Miller, and Viktor Stahlberg.

 

[F A N]

The names that caught my eye were Torrey Mitchell, Kevan Miller, and Viktor Stahlberg.

Mitchell was before Bates' time and Stahlberg started at the same time so Bates. Bates might have hand in Miller.

 

[krutovsdonut]

God forbid anyone looks at Harvey’s resume and questions the decision based solely on his resume. What is the problem with that?

yet another straw man argument. that's what, eight different things you have pretended i said to wiggle out of one bad take you had?

 

[rypper]

Mitchell was before Bates' time and Stahlberg started at the same time so Bates. Bates might have hand in Miller.

I was referring to crossover in general, not necessarily saying Bates had anything to do with bringing them to the program.

 

[F A N]

I was referring to crossover in general, not necessarily saying Bates had anything to do with bringing them to the program.

Not sure what you mean by that. But anyhow, I was specifically looking at players that Bates might have had a hand in bringing into the program.

 

[sting101]

Do people actually think Linden came in and told Benning what they should do regarding Scouting criteria and how the staff should be structured.