Canucks News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | A True Playoff Team

[StickShift]

Jim Rutherford has traded for a star player run out of Toronto before and I seem to recall that it turned out pretty well.

If one of Toronto's big pieces is put on the trade block, Vancouver should be interested. It's rare to find star players available who have been inoculated to playing in a Canadian market.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

He’s been healthy scratched these playoffs. He’s taken a major step back.

Didn’t know that- just assumed he was injured, thanks. With the way Toronto has played, maybe they should have played him lol.

 

[bossram]

aside from the usual suspects everyone is talking about (zadarov, hronek, joshua), i've been impressed with suter. having him locked up for next season at such a low hit is very helpful given that he's playing as a top line forward for us right now.

considering that he's turning 28, has career earnings of around 11.5M and basically makes league minimum when adjusting for vancouver costs and taxes, (and half of what his last aav was in detroit), i would consider giving him a burrows-like extension this summer rather than letting him test the market next summer, if he's willing to stay for cheap.

thinking something like a $12m/4 year extension gives him financial security and gives the team cost certainty through the oel years. maybe $10m/3 years if there's hesitation to lock in for that long on a middle-6 forward.

sure, you could probably go bargain bin shopping for guys like jesse puljujarvi or ryan donato who will be ufas next summer as replacements, but in a rising cap environment, there's no guarantee they provide the same utility for cheaper. and if suter plays all of next year with miller and boeser and puts up 40+ ES points, we're probably paying him upwards of garland money or losing him to someone who does.

I was the biggest Suter booster here and was pushing him all offseason. Was very happy they signed him and he has performed better than most reasonable expectations. Every line he's on just "goes". They're effective.

All that said, re-signing him at an inflated price doesn't make sense. Finding a Suter on the scrap heap is what successful clubs do. Locking them up with zero or negative surplus value is how organizations slowly hollow themselves out.

They have Suter for next season. Then they'll have to go out and try to do something similar after that.

 

[bossram]

I don’t see any team in the league that would trade for Mikheyev. He is an offensive black-hole. The cost to dump him would be prohibitive. They would need to give up futures that they need to reserve for TDL acquisitions.

The Canucks only recourse is to buy-him out. They need to hedge a bet that the pain of a $1.55m penalty in years 3+4 is less painful that paying him $4.5m to contribute zero goals in a top-six role in years 1+2.

I will bang on this drum all off-season just like I did with the OEL buyout this time last year. I know buyouts suck and they only delay the pain. But this is exactly the same sort of scenario that management found themselves in last year. They’ve already given us the blueprint for what they are going to do.

I really don't think it'll be difficult at all to dump Mikheyev. Only 2 years left at a mid-level cap hit. It is not analogous to the OEL situation in any way.

We saw last summer and in-season that the costs for mid-level forward cap dumps (e.g. Taylor Hall, Beauviller, Kuzmenko) were basically nothing. I think Chicago would probably be willing solve Allvin's cap problems again, given Chicago does need roster players. At the max, I think a depth pick as payment would do. Same with SJ who also have a lot of impending forward FAs and still need to fill out a roster.

 

[Diamonddog01]

If you trade Hronek for picks and then use them to dump Mikheyev, you’re net down Hronek and Mikheyev. If you trade our picks to dump Mikheyev, you’re net down picks and Mikheyev. One of those options is obviously SIGNIFICANTLY preferable to the other in the team’s current competitive cycle.

Sorry you don't seem to have understood what I've posted. I did not say trade Hronek specifically for the sake of moving Mikheyev...

 

[JT Milker]

Hronek, Poolman & Mikheyev traded for Vatrano.

Sorry you don't seem to have understood what I've posted. I did not say trade Hronek specifically for the sake of moving Mikheyev...

Sure, whatever.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Sure, whatever.

Your reading comprehension sucks lol.

 

[TruGr1t]

I really don't think it'll be difficult at all to dump Mikheyev. Only 2 years left at a mid-level cap hit. It is not analogous to the OEL situation in any way.

We saw last summer and in-season that the costs for mid-level forward cap dumps (e.g. Taylor Hall, Beauviller, Kuzmenko) were basically nothing. I think Chicago would probably be willing solve Allvin's cap problems again, given Chicago does need roster players. At the max, I think a depth pick as payment would do. Same with SJ who also have a lot of impending forward FAs and still need to fill out a roster.

I pretty much agree, wait until the summer and see if you can dump him in some type of packaged swap. Such a dumb contract though, who gives this guy a 12-team NTC and overpays out the butt.

 

[bossram]

I pretty much agree, wait until the summer and see if you can dump him in some type of packaged swap. Such a dumb contract though, who gives this guy a 12-team NTC and overpays out the butt.

Yeah. It was a completely unnecessary signing (and I know you, myself, and a few others said this at the time). And I actually liked Mikheyev pre-injury! My position was just that he is what he is (an ideal 3rd liner) and that paying him to be more and expecting him to be more was only going to end in disappointment.

 

[Jerry the great]

I really don't think it'll be difficult at all to dump Mikheyev. Only 2 years left at a mid-level cap hit. It is not analogous to the OEL situation in any way.

We saw last summer and in-season that the costs for mid-level forward cap dumps (e.g. Taylor Hall, Beauviller, Kuzmenko) were basically nothing. I think Chicago would probably be willing solve Allvin's cap problems again, given Chicago does need roster players. At the max, I think a depth pick as payment would do. Same with SJ who also have a lot of impending forward FAs and still need to fill out a roster.

I think GM's will also look at situations where they can double end the asset harvesting, like Montreal did with Monahan. Mikheyev is a good bounce back candidate once his knee is fully healed and he can train properly in the offseason.

 

[bossram]

I think GM's will also look at situations where they can double end the asset harvesting, like Montreal did with Monahan. Mikheyev is a good bounce back candidate once his knee is fully healed and he can train properly in the offseason.

This as well. I don't anticipate it will be difficult to move Mik.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I really don't think it'll be difficult at all to dump Mikheyev. Only 2 years left at a mid-level cap hit. It is not analogous to the OEL situation in any way.

We saw last summer and in-season that the costs for mid-level forward cap dumps (e.g. Taylor Hall, Beauviller, Kuzmenko) were basically nothing. I think Chicago would probably be willing solve Allvin's cap problems again, given Chicago does need roster players. At the max, I think a depth pick as payment would do. Same with SJ who also have a lot of impending forward FAs and still need to fill out a roster.

I don't think Miki will be as cheap to dump as you think. Hall was a star player still with name-recognition brought in specifically to aid a prized prospect, Beauviller has an expiring contract, and Kuzmenko scored 39 goals the season before traded. Miki doesn't match any of those situations.

The more comparable player is Dickinson, which cost a 2nd to move. It's not impossible, but I think the cost will be around a 2nd again, probably more than a depth pick. Worthwhile, but definitely a steep price and cost an asset we can use at the next TDL.

 

[VanillaCoke]

This as well. I don't anticipate it will be difficult to move Mik.

If this was true they'd have done it already.

 

[TruGr1t]

Yeah. It was a completely unnecessary signing (and I know you, myself, and a few others said this at the time). And I actually liked Mikheyev pre-injury! My position was just that he is what he is (an ideal 3rd liner) and that paying him to be more and expecting him to be more was only going to end in disappointment.

I don't mind the player, it was just a brain-dead contract that was largely panned at the time outside of Vancouver. The Leafs were reportedly offering something in the $2.5M AAV range for him, and nobody came close to the Canucks in contract value, they way outbid the market based on a guy with a pretty substantial track record. Then to tack on a NTC on top of that ... yuck.

It was relatively under-appreciated pre-injury because he was riding shotgun on a line with an absolute red-hot Pettersson-Kuzmenko combo under Boudreau.

 

[krutovsdonut]

liljegren is only 18 months younger than hronek.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i disliked the mikaheyev signing a lot, but he looked good for his contract until the acl happened. i don't think that was his line mates.

 

[vancityluongo]

I was the biggest Suter booster here and was pushing him all offseason. Was very happy they signed him and he has performed better than most reasonable expectations. Every line he's on just "goes". They're effective.

All that said, re-signing him at an inflated price doesn't make sense. Finding a Suter on the scrap heap is what successful clubs do. Locking them up with zero or negative surplus value is how organizations slowly hollow themselves out.

They have Suter for next season. Then they'll have to go out and try to do something similar after that.

don't disagree, but the premise would be to lock suter up asap so he does still continue to provide surplus past next year, vs waiting for him to play a full season on the top line and then price himself out of being retained here, or getting a contract where he certainly isn't providing surplus.

absolutely, taking another team's "mikheyev" is how organizations hollow out. but when there's a strong fit, sometimes you should make a bet on the "hyman" (just examples, not saying suter is on either end)

 

[Diamonddog01]

This as well. I don't anticipate it will be difficult to move Mik.

Wish I shared your optimism but they reportedly tried at the TDL and were unable to do so. I don't think it will be an easy contract to move, but we'll see.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Yeah. It was a completely unnecessary signing (and I know you, myself, and a few others said this at the time). And I actually liked Mikheyev pre-injury! My position was just that he is what he is (an ideal 3rd liner) and that paying him to be more and expecting him to be more was only going to end in disappointment.

Can't pay low skill bottom6 players top6 money. These guys will grind, they're big, play 2way... All good. They're just not of a legit top6 quality.

The problems on this team are clear, and Mikheyev is like the problem mascot.

 

[JT Milker]

i disliked the mikaheyev signing a lot, but he looked good for his contract until the acl happened. i don't think that was his line mates.

Didn’t he get injured in like, his first preseason game?

 

[Bobby9]

See if we can sign Stammer to a deal and then shop EP for Cirelli, Cernak and a 1st.

Miller, Stammer and Cirelli down the middle. Bring a winning culture in and let the Influencer play in FL

Sign Zad and Dillon to a contract.

Hughes - ?
Soucy - Cernak
Dillon-Zad

No idea what to do with Hronek.

 

[Peter Griffin]

See if we can sign Stammer to a deal and then shop EP for Cirelli, Cernak and a 1st.

Miller, Stammer and Cirelli down the middle. Bring a winning culture in and let the Influencer play in FL

Sign Zad and Dillon to a contract.

Hughes - ?
Soucy - Cernak
Dillon-Zad

No idea what to do with Hronek.

Stamkos hasn’t played center consistently in years. This is just like everyone suggesting that the Canucks go and acquire Claude Giroux to play center.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Stamkos has honestly lost a huge step this season and has been a passenger since their 2nd cup. He's leeched off Point and Kucherov and accumulated most of his points on the powerplay.

Would not be surprise if his point totals crater like Phil Kessels did.

Would rather go all-in on a player like Jake Guentzel as he can actually drive the offense. Although I suspect he will sign somewhere down south anyways.

 

[bossram]

I don't think Miki will be as cheap to dump as you think. Hall was a star player still with name-recognition brought in specifically to aid a prized prospect, Beauviller has an expiring contract, and Kuzmenko scored 39 goals the season before traded. Miki doesn't match any of those situations.

The more comparable player is Dickinson, which cost a 2nd to move. It's not impossible, but I think the cost will be around a 2nd again, probably more than a depth pick. Worthwhile, but definitely a steep price and cost an asset we can use at the next TDL.

Hall's perceived value was on a fairly downward trajectory. The Bruins were trying to get off him by any means possible. He was only a 3rd liner in Boston. I think the comparison there is closer than you think.

I think the Dickinson comp you make is also plausible. The difference is the Dickinson trade was made at a time of peak cap inflexibility (necessitating the 2nd round pick payment). In the new cap-inflating world, even if Mik/Dickinson are considered the same value, cap space is not at as much of a premium, and I would commensurately expect the payment to decrease as well (drop it to a depth-pick, rather than a 2nd, as I suggested).

If this was true they'd have done it already.

It is harder to make those kinds of moves in-season. Also given this is the management group that gave Mik that contract, I suspect they think he's better than other GMs do.

I don't mind the player, it was just a brain-dead contract that was largely panned at the time outside of Vancouver. The Leafs were reportedly offering something in the $2.5M AAV range for him, and nobody came close to the Canucks in contract value, they way outbid the market based on a guy with a pretty substantial track record. Then to tack on a NTC on top of that ... yuck.

It was relatively under-appreciated pre-injury because he was riding shotgun on a line with an absolute red-hot Pettersson-Kuzmenko combo under Boudreau.

Yep. People outside of VAN (particularly Toronto fans) knew it was going to be a bad deal. I knew it too! And that's despite me actually liking the player! I was just realistic about what Mik is. Most Canucks' fans didn't want to hear it.

Wish I shared your optimism but they reportedly tried at the TDL and were unable to do so. I don't think it will be an easy contract to move, but we'll see.

I don't really recall any rumours they tried to move Mik. But yeah, he is an obvious cap dump candidate. It's not optimism. I think it's a realistic assement that, for a small payment at the most, they won't have much trouble getting off the deal.

Can't pay low skill bottom6 players top6 money. These guys will grind, they're big, play 2way... All good. They're just not of a legit top6 quality.

The problems on this team are clear, and Mikheyev is like the problem mascot.

Yep. Expecting Mik to be a top-six player was always going to be a disappointment. He's the kind of guy you bring in and pay to be a 3rd liner.

 

[credulous]

Yep. People outside of VAN (particularly Toronto fans) knew it was going to be bad deal. I knew it too! And that's despite me actually liking the player! I was just realistic about what Mik is. Most Canucks' fans didn't want to hear it.

cam charron was throwing shade on the signing from day one and it's hard to think of anyone with a more informed opinion about mikheyev specifically