Canucks Managerial Thread
- Thread starter Bourne Endeavor
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WTG
December 5th
lol!
I find it hilarious that this management thinks that having Sbisa on his off side is better than having Corrado.
I'm going to be honest, I think I'd be a better GM than Benning at this point. And I have no experience.
It seems that Benning is not going to get the credit or benefit of the doubt that he is due, even as some of reasons that posters have used to argue that he is incompentent and stupid have been proven wrong or dispelled. Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of Benning's asset management and contract negotiations, but the hate for Benning is just so crazy around here. I also realize that Gillis and Gilman were amongst the best in this department and we have to adjust to a different management style now. Let's take a look a a few reasons that have gone down the tubes:
1) Benning has made the team older? Hutton, Virtanen, McCann have made the team.
2) Benning is biased towards his own acquisitions etc. and will do everything to save face? Bonino and Clendenning were traded. Vey got sent down.
3) Benning absolutely got robbed in the Kassian trade? What stupidity to throw in a 5th in order to dump Kassian? Turns out there WAS something we didn't know.
When did Corrado sit in the press box except the time he was injured? If anything, Corrado was up and down between the Canucks and Utica more than any other player. But sigh... losing Corrado sucks.
In terms of foresight or consistency, I think it it's too early to conclude. Benning took over a team that was lacking in NHL ready young talent. Like Horvat said, last year it was just him. This year there are a few guys going through the same process. Benning was obviously trying to add young talent by way of adding guys who have had trouble cracking the NHL roster full time. The Canucks were lacking in NHL ready young talent. Gillis did that too, although he preferred guys with more of an NHL track record (Steve Bernier) and if they didn't, he refused to pay assets for them (waiver wire pickups). Gillis preferred to go the UFA waiver route to "fill" his roster while he waited for his drafting and player development to bear fruit. Benning has avoided the UFA route and prefer to trade for the guys he wants on his team. It's been a different approach. Benning took a chance and not every one of them worked out. If Baertschi pans out, I don't care that he was like 1 for 3 or 1 for 4. These are the type of trades I want Benning to make if he is indeed a good evaluator of talent. Regardless, Benning wanted to secure the player and put his team together instead of scouring the waiver wire. You can disagree with the approach but he's not stupid.
There's foresight and then there's being open to changing opinion. Clendening was given a 17 game audition and in the meantime, Weber blew up offensively and secured at least another year with the Canucks. I've said this many times, at the time of the trade, Weber and Stanton figure to be gone and Corrado and Clendening figure to be on next year's roster. Then Weber went on his amazing run alongside Hamhuis, and Hutton came in and beat out Corrado for a roster spot. Vey didn't have a good year last season and was given an ultimatum of sorts. He was then beat out for a roster spot. Steve Bernier turned out into an NHL 4th liner too. There's foresight and then there's accepting reality. Gillis was often slow (as opposed to being patient) in giving up on players who clearly wasn't the player Gillis originally envisioned when he acquired them.
1) Benning has made the team older? Hutton, Virtanen, McCann have made the team.
2) Benning is biased towards his own acquisitions etc. and will do everything to save face? Bonino and Clendenning were traded. Vey got sent down.
3) Benning absolutely got robbed in the Kassian trade? What stupidity to throw in a 5th in order to dump Kassian? Turns out there WAS something we didn't know.
When did Corrado sit in the press box except the time he was injured? If anything, Corrado was up and down between the Canucks and Utica more than any other player. But sigh... losing Corrado sucks.
In terms of foresight or consistency, I think it it's too early to conclude. Benning took over a team that was lacking in NHL ready young talent. Like Horvat said, last year it was just him. This year there are a few guys going through the same process. Benning was obviously trying to add young talent by way of adding guys who have had trouble cracking the NHL roster full time. The Canucks were lacking in NHL ready young talent. Gillis did that too, although he preferred guys with more of an NHL track record (Steve Bernier) and if they didn't, he refused to pay assets for them (waiver wire pickups). Gillis preferred to go the UFA waiver route to "fill" his roster while he waited for his drafting and player development to bear fruit. Benning has avoided the UFA route and prefer to trade for the guys he wants on his team. It's been a different approach. Benning took a chance and not every one of them worked out. If Baertschi pans out, I don't care that he was like 1 for 3 or 1 for 4. These are the type of trades I want Benning to make if he is indeed a good evaluator of talent. Regardless, Benning wanted to secure the player and put his team together instead of scouring the waiver wire. You can disagree with the approach but he's not stupid.
There's foresight and then there's being open to changing opinion. Clendening was given a 17 game audition and in the meantime, Weber blew up offensively and secured at least another year with the Canucks. I've said this many times, at the time of the trade, Weber and Stanton figure to be gone and Corrado and Clendening figure to be on next year's roster. Then Weber went on his amazing run alongside Hamhuis, and Hutton came in and beat out Corrado for a roster spot. Vey didn't have a good year last season and was given an ultimatum of sorts. He was then beat out for a roster spot. Steve Bernier turned out into an NHL 4th liner too. There's foresight and then there's accepting reality. Gillis was often slow (as opposed to being patient) in giving up on players who clearly wasn't the player Gillis originally envisioned when he acquired them.
Bleach Clean
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Ainec
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Those 3 players would have made the team whether Benning was GM or not.
Hutton, 6th overall pick, after McCann the next 3 was Pastrnak, Scherbak and Goldobin. I wanted McCann because he was the consensus best pick and I know a lot of teams in the mid 10-20s wanted him so it was a no brainer pick. Remember the "it is what it is" towards sliding a few spots in the draft? Funny enough, Gillis MO was taking the BPA in the first round. All his selections were ranked higher than where we picked them and all pretty much busted. It's the luck of the draw, I'm certain Gillis would have taken 1 of those 3 forwards as well. I am however not sure who he would have taken 6th which I think is a plus considering Nylander was ranked highest
Hutton, 6th overall pick, after McCann the next 3 was Pastrnak, Scherbak and Goldobin. I wanted McCann because he was the consensus best pick and I know a lot of teams in the mid 10-20s wanted him so it was a no brainer pick. Remember the "it is what it is" towards sliding a few spots in the draft? Funny enough, Gillis MO was taking the BPA in the first round. All his selections were ranked higher than where we picked them and all pretty much busted. It's the luck of the draw, I'm certain Gillis would have taken 1 of those 3 forwards as well. I am however not sure who he would have taken 6th which I think is a plus considering Nylander was ranked highest
Intangibos
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McCann was a good pick but it's not like he was some diamond in the rough. There is also a solid chance we get two picks from Anaheim for Kesler since Gillis liked Santorelli and certainly wouldn't have targeted Sbisa. We could have had McCann/Pastrnak/Scherbak/Goldobin along with Nylander and Richie this year, as well as Hutton on D. Why would you even point to Virtanen as a Benning guy making the team who wouldn't under Gillis? Gillis would have had the 6th overall pick and had an equal or better prospect that Virtanen, since Virtanen has been underwhelming since his draft to say the least.
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me2
Go ahead foot
Just curious who that group of players are? Booth was injured and couldn't be bought out. So Ballard and ????
Addison Rae
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biturbo19
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Yeah.
They gambled on him clearing and lost. Sucks, but oh well.
I mean speaking of Stanton, he just cleared waivers...and i'd take him over Frankie on an NHL roster in a heartbeat right now. Yeah, he's a few years older...but he's actually a capable NHLer.
And ultimately, management had it right with Frankie. He was never going to develop here, in this situation. Sure, you can do some cap acrobatics sending Hutton down, LTIR Higgins, then bring Hutton back up and you keep Corrado on the roster. But to what end? 8th D sitting in the press box, ahead of a number of players who clearly outplayed him who were also sent down...both by the Canucks, and by other teams? Corrado was never going to regain his confidence and get his development "back on track" by sitting in the press box night after night.
I think it's also relevant to consider why Corrado was waiver eligible at "only" 22 years of age. That was an "asset management" issue that this regime inherited from the last guys. And i don't see why so many believe this regime should be obligated to bend over backwards compromising on their own principles and philosophy to accommodate a problem they inherited from the last guys.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
Actually MacT was lucky in a sense that he offered *MORE* money/bigger contract to David Clarkson than the Laffs when he became a UFA (only to have Clarkson choose the Laffs anyhow).
me2
Go ahead foot
2014 draft
Gillis always wanted a PF so maybe he takes Ritchie/Virtanen but I think he might have taken Nylander because there was only 1 top 6 centre product in the organisation. Nylander-Horvat 1-2 punch.
McCann is given if they get Anaheim's 1st. Gillis wants a more aggressive rebuild, build the deal Theodore+1st give our teams filler from each team. McCann meets his criteria and isn't Russian, only option.
Demko, probable. Needs another goalie after moving Luongo. Canucks goalie scouts are calling for Demko. Good fit.
Forsling does not get traded.
2015 draft
Can't really be sure who he would have taken this year since we don't know where Gillis' team finishes but with
Centres: Nylander+Bo+McCann+Cassels+Gaunce
Dmen: Tanev+Theodore+Hutton+ Forsling+Corrado
Goalies: Lack+Markstrom+Demko
A winger like Boeser sounds about right.
-----------------
That isn't even getting to the wasted picks, lost UFAs, bad grades, bad contacts we would not have to deal with.
A lot of them are AHL guys. Jaffray, Bitz, Oreskovich, Pinizzotto, Bolduc, Duco, Jaffray, Nycholat. Gillis loved pencilling in these guys for a roster spot. Sometimes, this was saved by late pickups like Weise and Dalpe (who was worse than Vey). Gillis would have loved a guy like Cracknell.
Uhhhh none of them outside of Weise was " penciled" in. More than half of them were AHLers and only played when we hit our annual injury crisis.
Even Dalpe was never really penciled in and even then he was quite young and cheap to acquire and was used only because the cap went down as a result of the lockout.
Uhhhh Weise and Dalpe were last minute pickups that were granted an opening day spot.
mossey3535
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- Feb 7, 2011
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Maybe the real underlying issue is that not only that they lost Corrado, but that even with another go at it they didn't take a guy like Stanton.
If there are really 4-5 Corrado-esque defenders (and I only question this because I haven't looked) on waivers, why haven't we claimed any of them? Stanton would be the obvious pick but this management is not 'big on him'.
I give Benning credit for McCann/Jake picks but with the grain of salt that they were pretty obvious picks. Still, he had to pick them. But the way he treats non-first round picks (i.e. throwing them around like candy) I think we're lucky that a Hutton-type camp surprise happened at all. Not to mention that the vast majority of guys who are pushing from the bottom now are Gillis drafts (which is to be expected now that there's been a 5 year turnaround time on them).
Long term jury is out (although I feel I am straining the limits of objectivity on this) but right now I wish we had hired Benning as our head amateur scout and let Gilman handle actual trading.
If there are really 4-5 Corrado-esque defenders (and I only question this because I haven't looked) on waivers, why haven't we claimed any of them? Stanton would be the obvious pick but this management is not 'big on him'.
I give Benning credit for McCann/Jake picks but with the grain of salt that they were pretty obvious picks. Still, he had to pick them. But the way he treats non-first round picks (i.e. throwing them around like candy) I think we're lucky that a Hutton-type camp surprise happened at all. Not to mention that the vast majority of guys who are pushing from the bottom now are Gillis drafts (which is to be expected now that there's been a 5 year turnaround time on them).
Long term jury is out (although I feel I am straining the limits of objectivity on this) but right now I wish we had hired Benning as our head amateur scout and let Gilman handle actual trading.
NuxFan09
Registered User
Benning would not have gone from being an assistant GM to being an amateur head scout. He already paid his dues in that capacity with the Sabres. Obviously he was looking to move up in the world.
biturbo19
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We haven't claimed "Corrado-esque" defenders, because as was just clearly demonstrated through camp...those calibre players are not good enough to crack our NHL roster.
Simple.
me2
Go ahead foot
Most of them were AHL callups just like Cracknell will be when Higgins comes back. Unlike Benning Gillis wanted more than 3 top 5 defenders, pick your poision a weaker 4th line or garbage D. Still it is not as if Gillis left a bad 4 line behind though, some combination Matthias Richardson Santorelli etc not bad at all. As for Dalpe that kind of sums it up, 2 players for a 4th vs Vey for a 2nd.
Intangibos
High-End Intangibos
Yeah, I heard that he was really high on Nylander, but it's possible he would take him anyway if our Swedish scouts hyped him enough. Gilman, I believe, was high on Ehlers though and right now Ehlers isn't lighting it up, but he still had a better junior season than Virtanen. The main difference is Virtanen can play as a 4th liner if he doesn't pan out, where Ehlers is boom or bust.
me2
Go ahead foot
Doesn't mean he would have found one, he probably would have been chased out of Boston when they purged the place. Another assistant GM job would look good about then.
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