Confirmed with Link: Canucks hire Rutherford as POHO/Interim GM | PT2

[Foppberg]

Please leave MacFarland alone, thank you.

- 99% of Avs fans.

 

[M2Beezy]

Please leave MacFarland alone, thank you.

- 99% of Avs fans.

Whats so good about him? Genuinely asking....

You guys can replace him with Weisbrod who trust me is SUPER good at being an AGM

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

Please leave MacFarland alone, thank you.

- 99% of Avs fans.

If you wouldn’t mind, may you shed some more educated light on what it is MacFarland specializes in, and which areas he excels? A strong sentiment(that I notice at least) on this particular matter is we know he is one of the hot names, but it’s hard to know exactly what who does what, where. Hopefully you can educate us a little on what makes the man such a top candidate. Not much great seems to have happened during his Jackets term, but that ain’t where he is now, and now is when he’s on our radar.

Many thank yous.

 

[M2Beezy]

If you wouldn’t mind, may you shed some more educated light on what it is MacFarland specializes in, and which areas he excels? A strong sentiment(that I notice at least) on this particular matter is we know he is one of the hot names, but it’s hard to know exactly what who does what, where. Hopefully you can educate us a little on what makes the man such a top candidate. Not much great seems to have happened during his Jackets term, but that ain’t where he is now, and now is when he’s on our radar.

Many thank yous.

I think theyre trying to Benning us the same way Bruins fans Benninged us

 

[vanuck]

I'm not walking away from from that..Yes, I guessed the wrong amount on Pearsons contract by $700K. (and owned it).He wound up getting $3.25..

"I did say this 2 posts later..
"Could be $3M for a year to two (I wont like it, and I'm sure others wont as well)..but talking about 3.5 or $4M is preposterous."..Post #348

I predicted $2.5M x 3 years..

But fair enough..I'll take the 'L' for this one...definitely an overpayment."..POM, April 8,2021​

I revised my point of view after the fact.. (is that allowed..?...opinions do evolve...MS does it frequently)...For what Pearson does ..play 16-20 minutes a night, in all situations, trusted by both Green and BB...Just over 3 million (not top 6 money) is a fair deal for this player.

Not that I think it was a good idea to sign him, but value wise..Thats about right..Thomas Drance said that there were a number of teams interested in signing him.

Hopefully, this clarifies it for you.

I don't really wanna get into it, but the only thing I'll say on this is:

More often than not, things we'd consider to be preposterous sadly ended up happening too often for the good of this franchise. This obviously resulted in a lot of fan frustration over the years - to the point where you could reasonably expect Benning to overpay just because that was a recurring pattern. And I don't think many people were surprised that Pearson did end up getting overpaid.

But kudos to you for at least owning up.

 

[Melvin]

I’m not really sold on MacFarland, but there isn’t a ton of info out there. He rarely does interviews, it seems.

 

[Foppberg]

If you wouldn’t mind, may you shed some more educated light on what it is MacFarland specializes in, and which areas he excels? A strong sentiment(that I notice at least) on this particular matter is we know he is one of the hot names, but it’s hard to know exactly what who does what, where. Hopefully you can educate us a little on what makes the man such a top candidate. Not much great seems to have happened during his Jackets term, but that ain’t where he is now, and now is when he’s on our radar.

Many thank yous.

Whats so good about him? Genuinely asking....

You guys can replace him with Weisbrod who trust me is SUPER good at being an AGM

I'm hardly the most educated fan when it comes to these things, but MacFarland is basically Sakic's righthand man. He was instrumental with the Duchene/Ottawa trade talks after they went cold, without him that trade probably doesn't happen.

Also has been credited with targeting Graves, Nuke, Burakovsky, Toews, Grubauer, Calvert. AKA the majority of our "great finds". Most of the things I've heard about him is nothing but positive, he's our silent secret weapon when it comes to how well our front office has done since Roy left.

The Avs are also crazy secretive so who knows. But that's what I've read/heard.

 

[pitseleh]

I’m not really sold on MacFarland, but there isn’t a ton of info out there. He rarely does interviews, it seems.

I made a similar comment in the GM thread. The case for him is largely circumstantial: the Avs have done a great job bringing in undervalued NHL talent since he joined the team.

I’ve dug up a couple of interviews with him and they are non-descript.

It looks like he was at least partly responsible for bringing in Arik Parnass to head up their analytics group, who report to him.

I also found this tidbit from an Athletic (Rob Rossi) article when the Penguins interviewed him to replace Rutherford:

Otherwise, MacFarland fits what the Penguins seem to want: a counterbalance Rutherford, whose tenure featured two titles, but 34 trades since the Penguins’ Cup win in 2017.
Reputably meticulous, MacFarland would contrast with gut-feel impulsivity of Rutherford. With the Avalanche, MacFarland is known to map out player personnel decisions in a six-ways-to-Sunday manner and views cap space as a primary asset. Also, not dissimilar to Drury with the Rangers, MacFarland has been credited for helping the Avalanche stockpile young talent.

 

[Melvin]

I made a similar comment in the GM thread. The case for him is largely circumstantial: the Avs have done a great job bringing in undervalued NHL talent since he joined the team.

I’ve dug up a couple of interviews with him and they are non-descript.

It looks like he was at least partly responsible for bringing in Arik Parnass to head up their analytics group, who report to him.

I also found this tidbit from an Athletic (Rob Rossi) article when the Penguins interviewed him to replace Rutherford:

that seems to line up with what I read elsewhere where he talks about mapping the salary caps of all teams in the league out 3 years to try to identify targets.

I can’t decide if that sounds good or pointless.

 

[Nucker101]

I made a similar comment in the GM thread. The case for him is largely circumstantial: the Avs have done a great job bringing in undervalued NHL talent since he joined the team.

I’ve dug up a couple of interviews with him and they are non-descript.

It looks like he was at least partly responsible for bringing in Arik Parnass to head up their analytics group, who report to him.

I also found this tidbit from an Athletic (Rob Rossi) article when the Penguins interviewed him to replace Rutherford:

Thanks

This is better than “Sakic’s right hand guy”

 

[pitseleh]

that seems to line up with what I read elsewhere where he talks about mapping the salary caps of all teams in the league out 3 years to try to identify targets.

I can’t decide if that sounds good or pointless.

They did get great players in Toews and Burakovsky for peanuts in cap driven trades, so it may have been worth it.

 

[Nucker101]

They did get great players in Toews and Burakovsky for peanuts in cap driven trades, so it may have been worth it.

I mean I could see it being valuable since it encourages the team to always keep some cap space available to swoop in on guys like Toews and Burakovsky instead of blowing cap space on the players Benning did. I’m assuming he actually makes these lists and then narrows them down to players he likes.

I feel like there’s way too many GM’s who get caught up on improving their teams asap and blowing their entire cap space as soon as it becomes available every summer. Future off-season and in-season opportunities be damned.

 

[bossram]

I mean I could see it being valuable since it encourages the team to always keep some cap space available to swoop in on guys like Toews and Burakovsky instead of blowing cap space on the players Benning did. I’m assuming he actually makes these lists and then narrows them down to players he likes.

I feel like there’s way too many GM’s who get caught up on improving their teams asap and blowing their entire cap space as soon as it becomes available every summer. Future off-season and in-season opportunities be damned.

This seems like what should be the primary job of the GM: Identify undervalued, cheap assets that will then overperform for your club. Once they become too expensive or not worth the contract, let them go and repeat the process (a la Grubauer or Duchene or Graves). If MacFarland is the primary guy behind these types of moves for Colorado, the Canucks should absolutely be putting in the full-court press to recruit him. Managing the cap and correctly evaluating players is what your GM has to be able to do.

I absolutely DO NOT WANT a GM whose primary strength/background is amateur scouting. This is simply not what a GM does. Let the scouts scout and the Scouting Director hands the GM the draft list.

 

[God]

it's cool that MacFarland is good at doing cap driven trades but if we bring him here, how is he going to do that when we have no cap space?

 

[MarkMM]

I made a similar comment in the GM thread. The case for him is largely circumstantial: the Avs have done a great job bringing in undervalued NHL talent since he joined the team.

I’ve dug up a couple of interviews with him and they are non-descript.

It looks like he was at least partly responsible for bringing in Arik Parnass to head up their analytics group, who report to him.

I also found this tidbit from an Athletic (Rob Rossi) article when the Penguins interviewed him to replace Rutherford:

That sounds like exactly what we're looking for.

This seems like what should be the primary job of the GM: Identify undervalued, cheap assets that will then overperform for your club. Once they become too expensive or not worth the contract, let them go and repeat the process (a la Grubauer or Duchene or Graves). If MacFarland is the primary guy behind these types of moves for Colorado, the Canucks should absolutely be putting in the full-court press to recruit him. Managing the cap and correctly evaluating players is what your GM has to be able to do.

I absolutely DO NOT WANT a GM whose primary strength/background is amateur scouting. This is simply not what a GM does. Let the scouts scout and the Scouting Director hands the GM the draft list.

Agreed, if we can get back Brackett (hey, a guy can dream) and add someone like Meghan Chayka to add additional analytical firepower that should suffice on the scouting end, let them do their thing while Rutherford/MacFarland collect picks and make trades further up the pipeline.

it's cool that MacFarland is good at doing cap driven trades but if we bring him here, how is he going to do that when we have no cap space?

I've made peace that if we're smart we're going to have to trade one or even more of Miller / Boeser / Horvat since we can't hold on to all of them and we should collect assets when they're at peak value and if we could get back a Dobson/Marino in exchange then we could trade away Myers for more cap space.

 

[F A N]

This seems like what should be the primary job of the GM: Identify undervalued, cheap assets that will then overperform for your club. Once they become too expensive or not worth the contract, let them go and repeat the process (a la Grubauer or Duchene or Graves). If MacFarland is the primary guy behind these types of moves for Colorado, the Canucks should absolutely be putting in the full-court press to recruit him. Managing the cap and correctly evaluating players is what your GM has to be able to do.

I absolutely DO NOT WANT a GM whose primary strength/background is amateur scouting. This is simply not what a GM does. Let the scouts scout and the Scouting Director hands the GM the draft list.

I think what the Avalanche has done a good job of is holding firm on what they are willing to pay their players in terms of AAV. They stuck to their guns and were willing to bear the consequences.

Just a small note. Duchene had asked for a trade so they were trading a player who wanted out. They also did try to re-sign Grubauer (something closer to Demko's deal).

 

[bossram]

I think what the Avalanche has done a good job of is holding firm on what they are willing to pay their players in terms of AAV. They stuck to their guns and were willing to bear the consequences.

Just a small note. Duchene had asked for a trade so they were trading a player who wanted out. They also did try to re-sign Grubauer (something closer to Demko's deal).

This is not inconsistent with what I said. If the player is going to be too expensive relative to his performance, they move on. They wanted Grubauer at the right price. Not $6 million.

They've clearly correctly identified undervalued but very useful players, like Toews, Nichushkin, and Burakovsky (or when they originally traded for Grubauer). They've signed guys to value cap hits (look at someone like Logan O'Connor, or Toews again). These types of moves are basically the opposite of the Benning era.

 

[Foppberg]

Thanks

This is better than “Sakic’s right hand guy”

Well exxcuuuussse me.

 

[F A N]

This is not inconsistent with what I said. If the player is going to be too expensive relative to his performance, they move on. They wanted Grubauer at the right price. Not $6 million.

They've clearly correctly identified undervalued but very useful players, like Toews, Nichushkin, and Burakovsky (or when they originally traded for Grubauer). They've signed guys to value cap hits (look at someone like Logan O'Connor, or Toews again). These types of moves are basically the opposite of the Benning era.

Oh I wasn't disagreeing with and I do think MacFarland would be an excellent hire here (I just don't think he would come here). Just pointing out that they did want to sign Grubauer but reportedly closer to 5 million and for 4-5 years rather than 6. Duchene wasn't traded because they thought he wasn't worth his contract but rather he wanted out. Agree with you on Toews and Nichushkin. Burakovsky was also a good acquisition but they did trade a 2nd + 3rd for him along with giving him a $4M AAV contract. This is for a a guy who put up 12 goals and 25 points the previous two seasons. Good for the Avs though.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[rypper]

that seems to line up with what I read elsewhere where he talks about mapping the salary caps of all teams in the league out 3 years to try to identify targets.

I can’t decide if that sounds good or pointless.

But does he map it out on a giant white board in his office?

 

[F A N]

But does he map it out on a giant white board in his office?

Probably 3

 

[Get North]

This is not inconsistent with what I said. If the player is going to be too expensive relative to his performance, they move on. They wanted Grubauer at the right price. Not $6 million.

They've clearly correctly identified undervalued but very useful players, like Toews, Nichushkin, and Burakovsky (or when they originally traded for Grubauer). They've signed guys to value cap hits (look at someone like Logan O'Connor, or Toews again). These types of moves are basically the opposite of the Benning era.

Well if you want to compare Colorado to Vancouver we should begin with Pettersson vs MacKinnon and that basically answers why we're below them in the standings.

p.s not sure how this is relevant to Rutherford, but there's not much hockey going on so everything is worth discussing.

 

[pitseleh]

Well if you want to compare Colorado to Vancouver we should begin with Pettersson vs MacKinnon and that basically answers why we're below them in the standings.

p.s not sure how this is relevant to Rutherford, but there's not much hockey going on so everything is worth discussing.

But if you replace Pettersson with MacKinnon the Canucks are still well behind Colorado in the standings. The other main difference is the depth of their roster.

Since the likelihood of the Canucks getting a MacKinnon level player in the next two years is basically zero, they need to find a GM who can identify undervalued talent to build depth, rather than continually overpay as his predecessor did. It's not going to be easy since the team is in such a bad position, but it's the only realistic alternative to stripping the team down and starting again.

 

[supercanuck]

that seems to line up with what I read elsewhere where he talks about mapping the salary caps of all teams in the league out 3 years to try to identify targets.

I can’t decide if that sounds good or pointless.

That sounds awesome as long as the GM has trusted advisors helping him out with it. It could mean the difference b/n getting Toews for 2 2nds for 4.1M AAV to play with your franchise D-man, or Gudbranson for a 1st, 2nd, and 4th at 3.5M AAV and then re-signing him for 4M.

 

[MarkMM]

Well if you want to compare Colorado to Vancouver we should begin with Pettersson vs MacKinnon and that basically answers why we're below them in the standings.

p.s not sure how this is relevant to Rutherford, but there's not much hockey going on so everything is worth discussing.

We could begin there, but go down the roster with signings and trades and it's clear that while Colorado was fortunate to get Mackinnon it doesn't change the fact that they're a better built team with better decisions.

And that's the hand Rutherford inherited from Benning so it's relevant.