Confirmed with Link: Canucks hire Rutherford as POHO/Interim GM | PT2

[geebster]

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Night and day difference.

Who is that second quote from? Is that Bo or Miller? If Miller thatd be huge

 

[rypper]

Who is that second quote from? Is that Bo or Miller? If Miller thatd be huge

It's still Horvat.

 

[geebster]

Man, to go from a front office team of Benning and Weisbrod to Rutherford, Clancey, Botteril, and MacFarland. What a f***ing night and day difference that would be.

It's like drinking piss all your life and someone hands you a cold glass of clean glacier water.

Yeah but you'll always have those people that have gotten used to drinking the piss. They've drank it their whole lives, it's what they are used to. To them the glacier water lacks character, lacks flavour. They will opine for the piss days and criticize the new not-getting-face-gonorrhea ways of management.

 

[mathonwy]

“I don’t even know what he does”. I know that was just urban myth but man you have to wonder what Wormtongue/the Weasel actually did most of the time. You heard from Pat Quinn himself more in recent years.

He built power for himself at the expense of the Canucks franchise.

and kudos to him for bending FAQ over from the front.

 

[Hit the post]

Jesus Christ

I'm sure he'd be an improvement over Jim Benning

 

[mathonwy]

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Night and day difference.

Why would the serious as Cancer about their career hockey player expend a high level of effort, create big entertainment and make these types of trash humans who don’t even have the balls to look them in the eye and talk to them directly look successful?

That’s the bigger picture that a select few of our players concluded on and executed a job action which ultimately took us from being one of the worst FO in NHL history to being the most progressive?

This makes me happy. Shitty managers need to f*** right off. In every industry.

 

[F A N]

I think the Ray Ferraro example is quite helpful in showing current biases. Like, no one seems to bat an eye when his name is raised as a possibility for a management role but you see a totally different reaction if the person being discussed is a women in the media.

I actually would like Ferraro but that's because he can articulate insights that convince me he's an incisive thinker, but I also don't think it should be offensive to admit that to the degree that being a hockey player gives insights into how to evaluate NHL players, being an actual NHL player probably gives some advantage to someone not an NHL player.

I agree with MarkMM. I don't think it's fair to accuse posters of bias in the case of Ferraro vs a women in media.

Most of us have heard Ferraro talk about his opinion on various Canucks players, personnel moves, signings, what he would do etc. for years. He is familiar with the market and we are familiar with him. Many of us have also liked his takes and analysis throughout the years and have talked about him potentially being a good addition to an NHL front office. He has also clearly followed the Canucks throughout the years and has as much knowledge about the team as any Canucks fan here. The same can't be said of other people in the media outside of the Vancouver market.

I have, in the past commented that I like him and I find him smart and insightful. If that's my opinion of him, why would you expect me to "bat an eye" when his name is raised as a possibility for a management role? There is no bias here.

 

[MarkMM]

I agree with MarkMM. I don't think it's fair to accuse posters of bias in the case of Ferraro vs a women in media.

Most of us have heard Ferraro talk about his opinion on various Canucks players, personnel moves, signings, what he would do etc. for years. He is familiar with the market and we are familiar with him. Many of us have also liked his takes and analysis throughout the years and have talked about him potentially being a good addition to an NHL front office. He has also clearly followed the Canucks throughout the years and has as much knowledge about the team as any Canucks fan here. The same can't be said of other people in the media outside of the Vancouver market.

I have, in the past commented that I like him and I find him smart and insightful. If that's my opinion of him, why would you expect me to "bat an eye" when his name is raised as a possibility for a management role? There is no bias here.

Yeah, like personally I'd be interested in Ferraro being considered but less so Botterrill.

This has nothing to do with them both being commentators with one being a man and one being a woman.

Ferraro I find myself nodding along with and learning something new when he talks, whereas Botterrill's take that the Leafs would have an advantage as a playoff team because they've got that clutch character or her saying Travis Green is a great coach just doesn't jive with me. They may both be commentators, but I just think Ferraro has better judgement, but that's just my opinion and is nothing related to gender.

On the other hand, I'd be keen on Meghan Chayka or Angela Ruggiero as candidates because they've demonstrated strong abilities which I can see direct impact on team performance.

 

[Dab]

Botterril is a great candidate to move into management. She’s a great communicator, smart, respectable and a leader. Unfortunately she suffers from the problem a lot of women breaking into non-traditional jobs - not a lot of opportunity to build her upper managerial resume because of a glass ceiling.

So many unqualified men out there and no one bats an eye when they get constantly recycled.

 

[Peter10]

YOU CALLED THE IDEA OF PEARSON'S CONTRACT A "depressing hypothetical . . . manufactured purely just to wind other posters up" HOW THE f*** ARE YOU GOING TO SAY THAT YOU DON'T THINK HE'S SIGNIFICANTLY OVERPAID.

He wont answer, just like he didnt answer to this

Confirmed with Link: - Canucks fire GM Jim Benning, AGM John Weisbrod - Part II

 

[MarkMM]

Botterril is a great candidate to move into management. She’s a great communicator, smart, respectable and a leader. Unfortunately she suffers from the problem a lot of women breaking into non-traditional jobs - not a lot of opportunity to build her upper managerial resume because of a glass ceiling.

So many unqualified men out there and no one bats an eye when they get constantly recycled.

Totally agree that too many men who are under-qualified get into jobs and keep getting jobs, and Botterrill is clearly smart, accomplished and a great communicator. Just not sold that she's the one I'd want building our team, if the issue is women and glass ceilings there are other women whose resumes just seem better tailored for the role (Meghan Chayka and Angela Ruggiero), as well as legitimately qualified men (my favourites are Macfarland and Tulsky).

Like a dream management additions for me would look something like:

President of Business Operations - Angela Ruggiero (most of her analytics work seems to be more on the business side than the player side)

President of Hockey Operations - Jim Rutherford (experience in building two separate Cup teams in different financial conditions, networks)

General Manager - Chris Macfarland (proven ability to be a player picker)

Assistant GM - Judd Brackett

Director of Analytics - Meghan Chayka (especially if we go with Macfarland over Tulsky, Chayka would bring that more pure analytics instinct that Tulsky would have brought)

 

[rypper]

Experience and qualifications aside a person, regardless of gender, can succeed if they're put in the right situation.

The right situation being, not handed the keys to the castle straight away, ie brought in at a lower level and built up to a bigger role when it's earned. While being surrounded by experienced people to help mentor and guide them.

I just look at 2014 when the team hired Linden, no experience in his role, Benning, no experience in his role, and Desjardins, no experience in his role. Without any real guidance or mentoring. No wonder it failed.

A candidate like Jennifer Botterill might not have hockey management experience but would thrive in a situation where the ship is being steered by Rutherford. You don't get the kind of accolades she has in education without putting in the effort and being a very bright motivated person.

 

[Dab]

Totally agree that too many men who are under-qualified get into jobs and keep getting jobs, and Botterrill is clearly smart, accomplished and a great communicator. Just not sold that she's the one I'd want building our team, if the issue is women and glass ceilings there are other women whose resumes just seem better tailored for the role (Meghan Chayka and Angela Ruggiero), as well as legitimately qualified men (my favourites are Macfarland and Tulsky).

As I understand she would be one of the people responsible for building the team, not the sole person. The other women are also qualified but I don’t see a huge problem with preferring Botterill. Matheltes people seem a bit poisonous right now.

 

[MarkMM]

As I understand she would be one of the people responsible for building the team, not the sole person. The other women are also qualified but I don’t see a huge problem with preferring Botterill. Matheltes people seem a bit poisonous right now.

True, I prematurely posted so just edited with additions of how the dream full team layout would look to me, it'd be something like this (agreed with you on going too heavy on analytics, that's why I'm actually happy with Rutherford as POHO and why I prefer Macfarland over analytics-centred Tulsky, but then added in Chayka to make sure that there is a strong analytics voice):

***

President of Business Operations - Angela Ruggiero (most of her analytics work seems to be more on the business side than the player side)

President of Hockey Operations - Jim Rutherford (experience in building two separate Cup teams in different financial conditions, networks)

General Manager - Chris Macfarland (proven ability to be a player picker)

Assistant GM Scouting - Judd Brackett

Director of Analytics - Meghan Chayka (especially if we go with Macfarland over Tulsky, Chayka would bring that more pure analytics instinct that Tulsky would have brought)

In the Gillis concept, I'd have other GM's for Player Development (skills coaches, goalie coaches, skating coaches, performance psychologists, sleep doctors and nutritionists, video coaches, etc), Player Personnel (cap management, ideally a lawyer with an analytics background), and Hockey Operations (weird given that there's a President of HO to also have an AGM of HO but the AGM HO would take care of things like the farm teams, coaches, travel and logistics, etc).

Specifically to Botterrill, 100% agree that she's clearly smart, accomplished and would benefit from the right environment, just wouldn't be my choice due to my thinking that others have more to offer / better fits to our needs. (Some of her judgement calls probably impact my comfort on her, Bieksa talks about how she's relentlessly positive as a strength but I wonder if that makes her a great commentator but might hinder her from being discerning in being ruthless about calls, ie her predicting Toronto would thrive in the playoffs due to their character and how she said Green was a great coach...to be fair, others said those things as well but it just didn't strike me as someone who made the right calls on important test points.)

But she's fully deserving of consideration, just not my choice.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Specifically to Botterrill, 100% agree that she's clearly smart, accomplished and would benefit from the right environment, just wouldn't be my choice due to my thinking that others have more to offer / better fits to our needs. (Some of her judgement calls probably impact my comfort on her, Bieksa talks about how she's relentlessly positive as a strength but I wonder if that makes her a great commentator but might hinder her from being discerning in being ruthless about calls, ie her predicting Toronto would thrive in the playoffs due to their character and how she said Green was a great coach...to be fair, others said those things as well but it just didn't strike me as someone who made the right calls on important test points.)

i would take anything she says on the air with a grain of salt given that half the job is basically to say things to hold leafs fans’ interest

as a parallel, ditto anything ferraro said about travis green. if it was actually his job to run the team we don’t know if he would have fired his buddy years ago

 

[Jay Cee]

FWIW I want no part of Ferraro whatsoever. Or anyone as our GM who is green in hockey operations.

 

[MarkMM]

i would take anything she says on the air with a grain of salt given that half the job is basically to say things to hold leafs fans’ interest

as a parallel, ditto anything ferraro said about travis green. if it was actually his job to run the team we don’t know if he would have fired his buddy years ago

Fair points. We're just left with picking them from the scraps we can publicly find, would be fascinating to be in the room during interviews!

 

[Dab]

FWIW I want no part of Ferraro whatsoever. Or anyone as our GM who is green in hockey operations.

Another Benning/Weisbrod type then, good choice!

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

with ferraro i mean i don’t think there is any percent of a chance he gets hired, being that he has come out and said he doesn’t want to work in a front office while his kids are still at home plus he’d be competing against his wife and it seems like they are prioritizing her professional development rn

but as a fan i like him because given the demands of his media job he was a rare voice of reason for many years, until 1040 was pulled off the air. feel like he had integrity, especially in the wake of the kyle becah bombshell when he came out and directly (albeitly somewhat gently) criticized his old buddy quenneville.

but i don’t know what judge of anybody’s abilities any of us really have. but if you’re asking me who as a fan i want to watch give a press conference he’s high on my list.

 

[F A N]

with ferraro i mean i don’t think there is any percent of a chance he gets hired, being that he has come out and said he doesn’t want to work in a front office while his kids are still at home plus he’d be competing against his wife and it seems like they are prioritizing her professional development rn

but as a fan i like him because given the demands of his media job he was a rare voice of reason for many years, until 1040 was pulled off the air. feel like he had integrity, especially in the wake of the kyle becah bombshell when he came out and directly (albeitly somewhat gently) criticized his old buddy quenneville.

but i don’t know what judge of anybody’s abilities any of us really have. but if you’re asking me who as a fan i want to watch give a press conference he’s high on my list.

I thought Ferraro always said that he would listen and was interested in helping build a team. Only thing is no team had contacted him for a position.

 

[rypper]

With Rutherford as the President I have no issues with hiring someone who has never been a GM, as GM and someone who has little prior front office experience as an AGM or in some kind of other management role.

 

[MarkMM]

I thought Ferraro always said that he would listen and was interested in helping build a team. Only thing is no team had contacted him for a position.

Yeah, I think it was on Donnie and Dhali, he was asked straight up if he'd be open to working in the front office (I think for the Canucks specifically) and he enthusiastically said of course he would love the chance to contribute to building the team and would entertain any calls...but hadn't been receiving them, lol.

 

[M2Beezy]

He wont answer, just like he didnt answer to this

Confirmed with Link: - Canucks fire GM Jim Benning, AGM John Weisbrod - Part II

Hahaha thats gold. Hes a poster of pure comedy for quite some time if you go back and look at his posts over time

Pure comedy

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

He wont answer, just like he didnt answer to this

Confirmed with Link: - Canucks fire GM Jim Benning, AGM John Weisbrod - Part II

I'm not walking away from from that..Yes, I guessed the wrong amount on Pearsons contract by $700K. (and owned it).He wound up getting $3.25..

"I did say this 2 posts later..
"Could be $3M for a year to two (I wont like it, and I'm sure others wont as well)..but talking about 3.5 or $4M is preposterous."..Post #348

I predicted $2.5M x 3 years..

But fair enough..I'll take the 'L' for this one...definitely an overpayment."..POM, April 8,2021​

I revised my point of view after the fact.. (is that allowed..?...opinions do evolve...MS does it frequently)...For what Pearson does ..play 16-20 minutes a night, in all situations, trusted by both Green and BB...Just over 3 million (not top 6 money) is a fair deal for this player.

Not that I think it was a good idea to sign him, but value wise..Thats about right..Thomas Drance said that there were a number of teams interested in signing him.

Hopefully, this clarifies it for you.

 

[rypper]

There was a number of teams interested in trading for him according to Drance, I don't know about the signing.

(Trading for him prior to the new contract.)