Post-Game Talk: Canucks @ Flames - Canucks win 3-1

[LeftCoast]

Really solid analysis.

I just don't think this team is ready to trust Corrado.

I think Corrado is fine, but may need a partial season in Utica to straighten him out after the Tortorella era. He has played under 5 coaches (McTavish, Vigneault, Green, Tortorella and now Desjardins) in the last 3 years and the entire D sucked last year under Torts.

 

[biturbo19]

I like Horvat a lot, but he looks like he's terrified of making mistakes out there and getting sent down — and seems to be taking very few risks offensively. Gets rid of the puck quickly and efficiently and rarely tries anything creative.

That's not the worst thing in the world, but I wouldn't mind seeing him try to be a little more daring. He looked so much better and confident at the end of the San Jose game after scoring a goal and loosening up a bit.

To me, Horvat played a lot like the "Forward version of Tanev", specifically earlier/rookie Tanev, fresh out the farm. Just makes the smart, simple play by default. It's both a great attribute, and a bit of a nuisance at the same time.

With Horvat though, i'm really questioning whether he may just be better off on the NHL roster starting off like that...and hopefully opening up whatever offense he has to offer over time as he gets more "comfortable" and "confident" at the NHL level. As in...it almost feels to me like he's the sort of player who could go back to Jr, light it up...and then come back to camp next year defaulting to the exact same sort of "no risk" play anyway, until he gets fully settled in. Some guys are just wired that way.

At this rate, our blueline staples will likely be Bieksa, Hamhuis, Tanev, Edler, Stanton. The 6th spot will be a revolving door between Sbisa and Weber.

I'm not so sure on that. Tonight we saw ~25:50 for Sbisa, and ~18:50 for Stanton. Part of that had to do with the partners (and ~2 and change extra PP minutes for Sbisa), but it looks a fair bit like they're looking at Sbisa as that #5 staple guy to me. Though i think they're also looking at Stanton as a staple as well.

Combined with the way they've been working Vey in on the point of the #1PP as an alternate to Weber and the mention Willie made of how Weber "has to show that he can play 5v5"...i think we're probably looking at a pretty consistent Sbisa-Stanton bottom-pairing as things stand right now, everyone being healthy (unlikely).

To add onto your point about Jensen, he struck me as a guy who'd only bother showing up when given good linemates. He's not a puck retriever, but he's a dangerous offensive finisher when he has decent support from guys who can retrieve and feed him the puck.

There was one play in this game that i think pretty well summed that up for me. I just laughed because i thought it kind of epitomized the whole thing.

The loose/bouncing 50-50 puck just inside the Flames blueline 1-on-1...Jensen sees another Canuck oncoming in support and doesn't even really make an effort on the puck, just slips in behind the lone Flames defender for a scoring opportunity. I don't recall who it was, i'd have to go back again and look...but unfortunately they didn't win the battle and get the puck up to him. But that's pretty much Jensen in a nutshell for me.

I think we've seen a pretty clear pattern of this forming with the guy. It's one of those things...an "it is what it is" sort of trait. He can score goals, he's always putting himself in position to score goals first and foremost...and linemates who can actually take advantage of that are going to benefit him massively.

 

[denkiteki]

My 14 forward keepers after today's game:

Sedin-Sedin-Vrbata
Burrows-Bonino-Kassian
Higgins-Vey-Hansen
Dorsett-Horvat-Jensen
Richardson, Sestito

Horvat is NHL ready, just not quite top 9 ready. Does yeoman's work in neutral and D zone all game long. Little things, mostly offensive shortcomings, like showing patience with the puck or taking too long to get a shot off, can be learned on the job. For now, I think we get more offense with Vey centering the two H vets.

Not sure about the chemistry with that 2nd trio. Burr, Kass and Higgins are pretty interchangeable.

Would prefer a 4th line with SOME scoring capability and a 2/3 kid line would not suffer too much development wise if line minutes are distributed close to 18-16-14-12.

Mattias is my trade/waive nominee. Prefer to play Jensen (who I could see bumping Hansen sooner than later) and Richardson over him, and keeping Sestito for divisional and grudge matches is prudent. Plus someone is always injured.

Best news out of this game - Lack is in pre Lu trade form.

Not so good news - Leaf luck at work; outshot/out chanced every game, but reserving judgement till we ice a more complete roster.

Shink is close but a stint in the NHL won't hurt him.

Disagree with those lines except for first line (which is pretty much default first line at the start of the season).

Second line for me would be
Higgins - Bonino - Hansen

Reason - Bonino played much better when ZK was off his line. Burrows has been playing hard (even if its pre-season) but he still doesn't look very productive and hasn't been for a while now. So after dropping those 2 and the fact Hansen/Higgins has some chemistry, this line is almost a result of what's left. An alternative is:

3rd line:
Burrows - Vey - ZK

Reason - Burrows really can't drop below the 3rd line. He's still very good defensively, useful on the PK, etc. Maybe playing on the 3rd line with less pressure to produce might actually result in him being productive again. ZK has some offensive skills and with Burrows on the line, it should help cover some of mistakes he might make.

4th line
Dorsett - Richardson - Mattias

Reason - Mattias brings a solid defensive/physical player who can chip in offensively. There's no way he'll get waiver... it just doesn't make sense and is horrible asset management. He's at the very least a better player than Dorsett and Sestito. No point in keeping both just to have a fighter. Richardson is a perfect 4th line center. Will produce the odd point, is great on the PK and @ the circle. Also plays physical enough for the line to work out as a physical line. Dorsett is pretty much you're typical 4th liner who is being paid like a 3rd liner but given our cap situation, that's fine.

Reason Jensen isn't on the team... he doesn't need to clear waivers and is clearly work in progress. If we have trouble scoring after a few games, then we could call him up. Otherwise, its better for him @ Utica to work on his defensive game. Clearly his defensive game now is better than before but there's still a lot of work... work that can be done @ Utica. Also its debatable who we actually bring up if we need offense. HS has produce more scoring chances than Jensen and you could argue he has been the best player so far.

Horvat might be better (or at least has played better) than some of the players on the team but its horrible asset management to waste 1 year of his ELC to play on the 4th line. If we make the playoffs, then it might make sense to burn a year off his ELC but since there's a decent chance we don't even make the playoffs, its not a great long term move to burn that year. On top of that, playing 4th line minutes isn't going to help his development much. I wouldn't be oppose to giving Horvat 9 games and waiving Sestito.

Other thing to note, Benning has said he isn't against having 3 goalies (actually hint he will be carrying 3 goalies) so unless there is a trade, we will only have 13 forwards and 7 dmans.

Other thing to note, the ES time is NOT 60 minutes. ITs probably closer to 45-50 minutes due to PP/PK and 4 on 4 time. Other thing to consider with your line-up is we need Richardson for PK... sure Horvat can take his place but Richardson is probably better atm. Not to mention Jensen can't be on the PK and with your line-up, our 2nd unit will be quite iffy. There really isn't a 2nd center who can be on the PK. Mattias can do that and one of the reason i have him in the 4th line in place of Jensen. Not to mention we do need someone to hit every so often. Mattias also allows for more line-juggling during the game since he can play C while Jensen can't.

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

Not a great game all around, but with the defence we iced, not surprising the team had some trouble really generating and sustaining pressure and creating many shots. Goalies really helped out tonight, with some really opportunistic offense.

Some other thoughts:

Shinkaruk: Stands out. Really didn't do a whole lot tonight, right up until he showed up on the score sheet a couple times. If he keeps up this sort of pace, it's going to awfully hard to keep him off a team that needs to score more. Went to the "dirty areas", really doesn't back down, even along the wall where he's not great...he's certainly willing and supports linemates really well there.

Jensen: Looked completely bleh until they made the swap and got him out their with some better players, suddenly looked energized and so much more effective. Defensively still a work in progress, but more so in terms of puck management that positioning and own-zone play. He made some of his characteristic forced play sort of turnovers again tonight, more so when he was kind of on an island early. Seems like one of those players who needs to live by the "less is more" mantra. Bad penalty tonight should just drive that point home, trying to do too much on the forecheck, takes penalty 200 ft from his own net and costs his team a goal.

Kassian: Ugh. Demoted, and rightfully so. Just seemed to kill plays every time the puck ended up on his stick. Protected it well with his size, but didn't really seem to use that to advantage by doing anything with it afterward. The defensive mistakes were back again as well, being in the wrong place, wrong side of the puck at times, some bad turnovers all over the ice. It's just the preseason, it's early...but still concerning as he's a guy this team really needs to take that next step, yet he looks like he's right back where he was for most of last season.

Bonino: Didn't really see much to be excited about until Kassian was demoted. Seemed to get a lot more done after that. Showed nice vision and soft hands to make plays around and behind the net as the game wore on. If he can run that 2nd PP down low like he did tonight, that should be a nice boost. Just really doesn't seem like Bonino+Kassian is a fit. Might be time to reevaluate that penciled in "2nd line".

Burrows: Didn't really look like a top-6 forward. Hustled, that's about it.

HHH Line: About as lunchpail "meat and potatoes" a line as you're gonna get. No east-west shenanigans. Horvat didn't look at all out of place there playing a defensive role. Did some really good work through the neutral zone that stood out to me. Not much offensively to speak of. Hansen hustles and is a solid two-way player, but his complete lack of finish and hands was on full display tonight. Higgins, playing with those two didn't really stand out either. Looked decent enough on the PP with other guys, but if you're gonna put 3 "complementary players" like that together, tonight is probably what you're gonna get. Not much offense beyond a bit of zone time and cycling the puck around at times.

Sestito: Not good at hockey. Couldn't make a play, lost in his own zone, couldn't keep up with guys defensively or get in effectively on the forecheck offensively. Playing his way off the team.

Richardson: Guy was flying tonight. Looked very noticeably fast...and he was a quick player to begin with. Otherwise pretty much same ol' thing you'd expect from him.

Sbisa: Pretty decent. Skated well, used his long reach pretty well to keep guys contained for the most part, used his size well, noticeably physical (that call was pretty bogus too). Logged nearly 26 minutes of ice with one other NHL calibre defenceman on the ice and didn't do too badly at all. A few miscues here and there, and didn't handle the puck particularly well at times, but really not bad all things considered.

Stanton: Pretty good as well. Looked really confident with and without the puck. A few shaky moments, but overall nice and assertive. Some good physicality as well. Along with Sbisa, clearly stood out on this blueline as NHL calibre defencemen.

Corrado: Thought it was a better game than his last, but still just looked off. A lot of indecisiveness, fishing for pucks instead of moving to really engage. Mobility looked a bit better than last game, but still doesn't seem up to the standard he set prior to last year. No idea what's going on with him, but it's not great.

Tommernes: Clearly not close to an NHL defender right now. Has some tools and flashed a bit of offensive instincts at times, including an ability to carry the puck effectively...but overall not good enough. Looked like there might still be something that can be developed there, but who knows if he'll be interested in sticking around in NA for that or not.

Huskins: Literally a pylon. Savvy veteran pylon maybe, but he just cannot skate. At all.

Negrin: lol. No business being in this game, and it showed. Runs around like a blackout drunk Edler. Just awful.

Goalies were obviously both good, Lack in particular stood on his head and made it look easy. Eriksson a bit shakier, kicked out some weird rebounds, didn't always seem to track the puck as well as you'd like, but still a good outing.


Really, the biggest take away for me...i think it's time to take a good look at that presumed "2nd line", maybe even go back to the drawing board entirely.

Pretty spot on to me.

Defence hurt us. Definitely looked unfamiliar with each other. Tenative, bad decisions, positioning etc. Give them credit for holding them out though.

Liked Sbisa's edge. Was nervy but he looks like an NHL player (a rusty one). Nice to see Stanton skating the puck out of his zone too.

Bo had a few nice plays in their zone late in the third. Definitely saw some nice puck skills there, but I think he's concentrating on playing smart first so it's not always on display.

Eddie looked fantastic. Very happy about this.

Would have liked to see Kassian with Richardson or Matthias at some point to give him some familiarity. He had a couple of ok shifts but him and Sestito were a trainwreck together. Bancks looks like he could be a shifty 4th liner somewhere along the line which was another nice little surprise.

Tommernes showed signs imo. Got a ton of work to do though.


The kids are alright.

 

[Huggy]

Its hard to give any of daniel burrows matthias hansen or higgins any slack when you see what potential jensen and shinkaruk have.

it will not be pleasant for burrows or daniel if they repeat last season.

i thi k this team has a lot of mid seaso trade potential.

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

Its hard to give any of daniel burrows matthias hansen or higgins any slack when you see what potential jensen and shinkaruk have.

it will not be pleasant for burrows or daniel if they repeat last season.

i thi k this team has a lot of mid seaso trade potential.

Higgy's ok. I think you're right though.

 

[Shareefruck]

To me, Horvat played a lot like the "Forward version of Tanev", specifically earlier/rookie Tanev, fresh out the farm. Just makes the smart, simple play by default. It's both a great attribute, and a bit of a nuisance at the same time.

With Horvat though, i'm really questioning whether he may just be better off on the NHL roster starting off like that...and hopefully opening up whatever offense he has to offer over time as he gets more "comfortable" and "confident" at the NHL level. As in...it almost feels to me like he's the sort of player who could go back to Jr, light it up...and then come back to camp next year defaulting to the exact same sort of "no risk" play anyway, until he gets fully settled in. Some guys are just wired that way.



I'm not so sure on that. Tonight we saw ~25:50 for Sbisa, and ~18:50 for Stanton. Part of that had to do with the partners (and ~2 and change extra PP minutes for Sbisa), but it looks a fair bit like they're looking at Sbisa as that #5 staple guy to me. Though i think they're also looking at Stanton as a staple as well.

Combined with the way they've been working Vey in on the point of the #1PP as an alternate to Weber and the mention Willie made of how Weber "has to show that he can play 5v5"...i think we're probably looking at a pretty consistent Sbisa-Stanton bottom-pairing as things stand right now, everyone being healthy (unlikely).



There was one play in this game that i think pretty well summed that up for me. I just laughed because i thought it kind of epitomized the whole thing.

The loose/bouncing 50-50 puck just inside the Flames blueline 1-on-1...Jensen sees another Canuck oncoming in support and doesn't even really make an effort on the puck, just slips in behind the lone Flames defender for a scoring opportunity. I don't recall who it was, i'd have to go back again and look...but unfortunately they didn't win the battle and get the puck up to him. But that's pretty much Jensen in a nutshell for me.

I think we've seen a pretty clear pattern of this forming with the guy. It's one of those things...an "it is what it is" sort of trait. He can score goals, he's always putting himself in position to score goals first and foremost...and linemates who can actually take advantage of that are going to benefit him massively.

I caught that! It looked like this was going on in Jensen's mind "Hmm.. I'm closer to the loose puck than my teammate/the defender is, but my teammate's probably more willing to battle for it than I am-- If I move up here and assume he wins that puck battle, I'll be in the clear!-- Jensen, you're a genius!"

 

[Tinhorn1]

Its hard to give any of daniel burrows matthias hansen or higgins any slack when you see what potential jensen and shinkaruk have.

it will not be pleasant for burrows or daniel if they repeat last season.

i thi k this team has a lot of mid seaso trade potential.

Agreed. I'd add Burrows to your list with an exclamation mark. I'm a die-hard Sedins fan, though, so I really hope Daniel has some success this year. The rest I could care less if somebody with more punch takes their spots.

 

[MS]

Jeeez. I completely forgot about Matthias in my writeup. Shows about how effective he was i guess. Expected more from him, veteran in the preseason or no...he's stated his desire to take on a greater role with this team...that means you've gotta actually step up and take it man, and now's the time to do that and stand out.

Yeah, he was pretty invisible and he really needs to show something to avoid being the odd man out. I'm not really sure what his role is, and that's not a good thing.

I really doubt there's much of anything that can be done about Burrows at this point. But man $4.5M is a lot for what he looks as though he offers these days. He was a crazy bargain for a lot of years, but now...it's a pretty untradeable contract. He looked like a smallish 3rd line checker tonight. Still just the preseason, but you'd think he'd have come in with something to prove after last year.

Yeah, any talk of trading Burrows is rubbish. The guy would clear waivers on that contract and we're stuck with him.

Not close to the player he used to be, but if he could score 30 points as an overpaid 3rd liner/PK ace, I'd be reasonably satisfied. Would be shocked if he scores 20+ goals without the Sedins and think his top-6 days are probably over.

I don't think we actually even really disagree on Shinkaruk vs Jensen tonight. Shinkaruk really didn't do much outside of...what he seems to have a knack for, showing up on the scoresheet. Not a whole lot outside of that...but it is hard to fault a guy too much for being opportunistic, especially on a team populated with grinders who are pretty much the exact opposite. Jensen did look like he was struggling a bit early to me, Bancks and Sestito are not good linemates for him and it seemed like the "solo effort Jensen" came out again (he did have that one really nice chance that stood out prior to the swap), until he was bumped up/Kassian bumped down. He was quite dangerous from that point on...just seemed to have more jump in his step, more effective all around.

As far as Sbisa/Stanton goes. I guess we're just seeing it differently. I thought the two were on a pretty even plane tonight. Though the most positive thing to take away from that whole mess of a blueline outside of the duo, is that Stanton looked plenty comfortable playing a lot of RD...which is important if these two are going to be our 3rd pairing. If they both continue to play like tonight as things ramp up...that's a pretty solid, physical, mobile bottom pairing with a bit of upward mobility if injuries hit. Though as alluded to earlier...the top-4 ahead of them, while also "solid" may lack an element of dynamic offense that neither brings to the table either.

Fair enough on Shinkaruk. Absolutely it's a good sign that points follow him around even when he doesn't play well. But I don't see these sorts of games being sustainable when the real season hits. Gotta generate shots - I want to see him have a game like Jensen did tonight where he gets 5-6 pucks on net and consistently backs off opposing defenders with his speed before I look at keeping him on the roster.

Stanton and Sbisa might have been similarly effective tonight, but the game Stanton played inspired confidence in me and Sbisa did not. He didn't crack ... but you could just feel the dumbness.

 

[Trelane]

Disagree with those lines except for first line (which is pretty much default first line at the start of the season).

Second line for me would be
Higgins - Bonino - Hansen

Reason - Bonino played much better when ZK was off his line. Burrows has been playing hard (even if its pre-season) but he still doesn't look very productive and hasn't been for a while now. So after dropping those 2 and the fact Hansen/Higgins has some chemistry, this line is almost a result of what's left. An alternative is:

3rd line:
Burrows - Vey - ZK

Reason - Burrows really can't drop below the 3rd line. He's still very good defensively, useful on the PK, etc. Maybe playing on the 3rd line with less pressure to produce might actually result in him being productive again. ZK has some offensive skills and with Burrows on the line, it should help cover some of mistakes he might make.

4th line
Dorsett - Richardson - Mattias

Reason - Mattias brings a solid defensive/physical player who can chip in offensively. There's no way he'll get waiver... it just doesn't make sense and is horrible asset management. He's at the very least a better player than Dorsett and Sestito. No point in keeping both just to have a fighter. Richardson is a perfect 4th line center. Will produce the odd point, is great on the PK and @ the circle. Also plays physical enough for the line to work out as a physical line. Dorsett is pretty much you're typical 4th liner who is being paid like a 3rd liner but given our cap situation, that's fine.

Reason Jensen isn't on the team... he doesn't need to clear waivers and is clearly work in progress. If we have trouble scoring after a few games, then we could call him up. Otherwise, its better for him @ Utica to work on his defensive game. Clearly his defensive game now is better than before but there's still a lot of work... work that can be done @ Utica. Also its debatable who we actually bring up if we need offense. HS has produce more scoring chances than Jensen and you could argue he has been the best player so far.

Horvat might be better (or at least has played better) than some of the players on the team but its horrible asset management to waste 1 year of his ELC to play on the 4th line. If we make the playoffs, then it might make sense to burn a year off his ELC but since there's a decent chance we don't even make the playoffs, its not a great long term move to burn that year. On top of that, playing 4th line minutes isn't going to help his development much. I wouldn't be oppose to giving Horvat 9 games and waiving Sestito.

Other thing to note, Benning has said he isn't against having 3 goalies (actually hint he will be carrying 3 goalies) so unless there is a trade, we will only have 13 forwards and 7 dmans.

Other thing to note, the ES time is NOT 60 minutes. ITs probably closer to 45-50 minutes due to PP/PK and 4 on 4 time. Other thing to consider with your line-up is we need Richardson for PK... sure Horvat can take his place but Richardson is probably better atm. Not to mention Jensen can't be on the PK and with your line-up, our 2nd unit will be quite iffy. There really isn't a 2nd center who can be on the PK. Mattias can do that and one of the reason i have him in the 4th line in place of Jensen. Not to mention we do need someone to hit every so often. Mattias also allows for more line-juggling during the game since he can play C while Jensen can't.

Lines are interchangeable, as always. It doesn't follow that Horvat, Dorsett, etc would never be healthy scratches, but I'm pretty comfortable keeping those 14.

Hansen - issue is if he's to play on 3rd, 4ht, or be traded, never on 2nd
Mattias - better than Sestito and (probably) Dorsett, sure, but despite the size brings no truculence. Sucks asset wise is also true, but that's the previous admin doing. Also not exactly indispensable for PK
Bonino, Vey, Richardson and Horvat - can handle centreing the PK, which doesn't even need a true centreman per say, if not starting in D zone
Horvat - offensive development will take time, won't be breaking the bank for his 2nd contract
3 goalies - no one believes Benning will carry them for any meaningful period

 

[Shareefruck]

You know, we **** all over our defense, but if Stanton can continue to progress in a similar way to how Tanev has been (which looks very possible), our top 5 actually looks very good, and Sbisa is a fine #6 with five strong guys ahead of him. Still no puckmover, but still.

 

[Spectrefire]

At this point, I'd prefer to see Horvat make the team and Jensen start off in Utica.

Sedin-Sedin-Vrbata
Burrows-Bonino-Vey
Higgins-Horvat-Kassian
Matthias-Richardson-Hansen

 

[biturbo19]

I caught that! It looked like this was going on in Jensen's mind "Hmm.. I'm closer to the loose puck than my teammate/the defender is, but my teammate's probably more willing to battle for it than I am-- If I move up here and assume he wins that puck battle, I'll be in the clear!-- Jensen, you're a genius!"

The funniest part, is that if they had been able to even just chip the puck up to him...Jensen probably would have looked like a genius there.

Clearly a guy who is highly reliant on linemates though, at least at this stage. Who knows if he'll ever grow out of that, or to what extent.

Horvat - offensive development will take time, won't be breaking the bank for his 2nd contract

It's probably getting way ahead of ourselves, but this is still a very pertinent point when it comes to anyone worried about keeping Horvat on the NHL roster if he's not producing a bunch of offense, burning a year of ELC early, etc.

If he takes the sort of development curve he looks to be on...there's always the potential that his "bridge deal" becomes a massive steal. Offense is what gets paid in today's NHL...and with Bo, it does look like it may be a long-term project getting that offense to really come out to play at the next level.

 

[thepuckmonster]

The bottom pairing regular season guys were our top pair tonight.

Letting that sink in, I thought both played well

Negrin needs to go as far away as possible though.

 

[biturbo19]

You know, we **** all over our defense, but if Stanton can continue to progress in a similar way to how Tanev has been (which looks very possible), our top 5 actually looks very good, and Sbisa is a fine #6 with five strong guys ahead of him. Still no puckmover, but still.

If Vey can actually nail down a spot as the RHS pointman on the #1PP Unit, i think that helps a lot as it eliminates one big component of the problem. But yeah...our defensive corps has the potential to be a pretty good group, just lacking that real dynamic puck mover.

 

[Shareefruck]

^ There's also a part of me that's hopeful/optimistic that Tanev might take another step in terms of his transition/breakout game (which is already pretty good) and be a bit of a puck-mover in that sense. I don't expect him to quarterback a powerplay or anything, but.... there's definitely something there that isn't there with the other four.
--
Even though we're being outplayed possession wise, unlike in previous pre-seasons, I do like how organized/structured our game seems to be this preseason. For once our execution of the little give and goes in our own zone and in the neutral zone aren't completely terrible, and tend to be somewhat crisp.

There are still huge gaffs of course, but I was expecting much much worse.

 

[MS]

Even though we're being outplayed possession wise, unlike in previous pre-seasons, I do like how organized/structured our game seems to be this preseason. For once our execution of the little give and goes in our own zone and in the neutral zone aren't completely terrible, and tend to be somewhat crisp.

There are still huge gaffs of course, but I was expecting much much worse.

It helps that Edler had played like 2 shifts. We looked really organized when he was injured last year, too.

 

[Wilch]

It helps that Edler had played like 2 shifts. We looked really organized when he was injured last year, too.

Only if the Edler for Carolina's 2013 first rumours were true AND Gillis took it.

We'd dispose of Edler on a crappy contract and be able to take Monahan AND Horvat.

 

[orcatown]

Got totally owned early on with only great goal keeping it goalless. But by the third were the stronger team. Canucks seem to be doing something in the room to improve going into the third. Been their best period this pre-season.

The Good

Shinkaruk - put away his goal with scorer's touch (little Eberle like). However, the thing to like best was the speed he showed on several of his rushes. This combination of speed and touch gives you hope. Could be an excellent player

Higgins - Canucks need to find where this player fits best. Has offensive talent and the Canucks might want to get him into situations where he can utilize it more. Looked a cut above others in this game.

Lack - If Lack keeps this form might wonder if Miller's money might have been better spent elsewhere. Gave Flames nothing to shoot at.

Stanton - Got around the ice very well. Maybe it was the pace of the game but he looked very mobile tonight. Give Gillis credit for an outstanding waiver wire pick up. Hopefully we get someone this year as well.

Richardson - has NHL skating and compete level. Played strong both ways in this game

Not Bad

Tommernes - started the game poorly as did most of the defense. Could see these combinations had never played together and they ended running around chasing the play and bumping into one another. But once he settled in, Tommernes started making some good passes from his own zone and creating passes for defensive partners. Thought he had strong third period. Turn around in this game happened when the defense began to play better. This, I thought, was lead by Stanton, Sbisa and Tommernes

Corrado - lack of flow in the preseason has hurt Corrado's game. Best when he can stretch the game with his movement and passes. Not as good (but improving) when
he gets caught up in endless board battles.

Sbisa - nothing to get too excited about but he looked serviceable. Showed enough strength to remove people from the play and good overall range. Have to see him when he gets under a bit more pressure which maybe where he shows some negatives.

Horvat - Needs more consistency shift to shift. Decent at times but too tentative at other points. Not always going or involved at 100%. Probably a result of his Junior experience when he was getting tons of ice time and learned to take short cuts and on-ice breathers to save energy. Lot to like about Horvat but the type of grinding game he plays takes time to develop at the NHL level.

Jensen - looked dynamic at times in this game. Has very high top end if he can get other parts of his game together. I think his overall game is developing but still a liability in his own end. Cheats toward the offense and let's checks roll off him and go to the goal. Also, not strong enough along the boards in his own zone. However, he does show great top end speed and an ability to cut thru gaps in the defense to open himself up for chances. Two games, two goals so you have to be happy about that.

The Bad

Sestito - brutal in handling the puck and prone to terrible turnovers. Looked slow with the puck and lazy at times. Will need to play better than this to be any help to the team. Getting a bruiser that can play is often not easy.

Kassian - looked like the Kassian at the beginning of last season. Lots of brain farts and individual play. Looked out of position and guessing in this game.

Hansen - if he was a player just trying out probably be cut after this game. Tailed off last season and didn't look much better tonight.

Negrin - could well have trouble making it in Utica. Simply couldn't keep up with the play. Probably the last go around for Negrin. Don't really understand why they are using up game time on this player

Huskins - showed why he is no longer in the NHL.

Calgary has every right to be excited about Bennett. He looks like a player.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

^ There's also a part of me that's hopeful/optimistic that Tanev might take another step in terms of his transition/breakout game (which is already pretty good) and be a bit of a puck-mover in that sense. I don't expect him to quarterback a powerplay or anything, but.... there's definitely something there that isn't there with the other four.
--
Even though we're being outplayed possession wise, unlike in previous pre-seasons, I do like how organized/structured our game seems to be this preseason. For once our execution of the little give and goes in our own zone and in the neutral zone aren't completely terrible, and tend to be somewhat crisp.

There are still huge gaffs of course, but I was expecting much much worse.

Uh...what? Structure? I've seen a complete lack of structure there. There are nice plays here and there, but watch the other teams come out. Night and day. I mean hey, it's preseason with a bunch of guys who obviously aren't near NHL caliber, but then...neither are the other guys. Remembering the threads about youngstars games, about how little they matter so we shouldn't expect anything...well, somehow the other teams managed coherence more than us.

Transitions, breakouts, entries have been almost without exception terrible so far.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Got totally owned early on with only great goal keeping it goalless. But by the third were the stronger team. Canucks seem to be doing something in the room to improve going into the third. Been their best period this pre-season.

The Good

Shinkaruk - put away his goal with scorer's touch (little Eberle like). However, the thing to like best was the speed he showed on several of his rushes. This combination of speed and touch gives you hope. Could be an excellent player

Higgins - Canucks need to find where this player fits best. Has offensive talent and the Canucks might want to get him into situations where he can utilize it more. Looked a cut above others in this game.

Lack - If Lack keeps this form might wonder if Miller's money might have been better spent elsewhere. Gave Flames nothing to shoot at.

Stanton - Got around the ice very well. Maybe it was the pace of the game but he looked very mobile tonight. Give Gillis credit for an outstanding waiver wire pick up. Hopefully we get someone this year as well.

Richardson - has NHL skating and compete level. Played strong both ways in this game

Not Bad

Tommernes - started the game poorly as did most of the defense. Could see these combinations had never played together and they ended running around chasing the play and bumping into one another. But once he settled in, Tommernes started making some good passes from his own zone and creating passes for defensive partners. Thought he had strong third period. Turn around in this game happened when the defense began to play better. This, I thought, was lead by Stanton, Sbisa and Tommernes

Corrado - lack of flow in the preseason has hurt Corrado's game. Best when he can stretch the game with his movement and passes. Not as good (but improving) when
he gets caught up in endless board battles.

Sbisa - nothing to get too excited about but he looked serviceable. Showed enough strength to remove people from the play and good overall range. Have to see him when he gets under a bit more pressure which maybe where he shows some negatives.

Horvat - Needs more consistency shift to shift. Decent at times but too tentative at other points. Not always going or involved at 100%. Probably a result of his Junior experience when he was getting tons of ice time and learned to take short cuts and on-ice breathers to save energy. Lot to like about Horvat but the type of grinding game he plays takes time to develop at the NHL level.

Jensen - looked dynamic at times in this game. Has very high top end if he can get other parts of his game together. I think his overall game is developing but still a liability in his own end. Cheats toward the offense and let's checks roll off him and go to the goal. Also, not strong enough along the boards in his own zone. However, he does show great top end speed and an ability to cut thru gaps in the defense to open himself up for chances. Two games, two goals so you have to be happy about that.

The Bad

Sestito - brutal in handling the puck and prone to terrible turnovers. Looked slow with the puck and lazy at times. Will need to play better than this to be any help to the team. Getting a bruiser that can play is often not easy.

Kassian - looked like the Kassian at the beginning of last season. Lots of brain farts and individual play. Looked out of position and guessing in this game.

Hansen - if he was a player just trying out probably be cut after this game. Tailed off last season and didn't look much better tonight.

Negrin - could well have trouble making it in Utica. Simply couldn't keep up with the play. Probably the last go around for Negrin. Don't really understand why they are using up game time on this player

Huskins - showed why he is no longer in the NHL.

Calgary has every right to be excited about Bennett. He looks like a player.

Not a single thing I disagree with here.

*edit* Okay, one quibble: not as high on Tommernes.

 

[biturbo19]

^ There's also a part of me that's hopeful/optimistic that Tanev might take another step in terms of his transition/breakout game (which is already pretty good) and be a bit of a puck-mover in that sense. I don't expect him to quarterback a powerplay or anything, but.... there's definitely something there that isn't there with the other four.
--
Even though we're being outplayed possession wise, unlike in previous pre-seasons, I do like how organized/structured our game seems to be this preseason. For once our execution of the little give and goes in our own zone and in the neutral zone aren't completely terrible, and tend to be somewhat crisp.

There are still huge gaffs of course, but I was expecting much much worse.

Yeah. You can tell the systems work is still a major work in progress. But it's night and day vs last year already. There are passing outlets available, guys moving up ice as a coherent unit, a completely different willingness to maintain possession of the puck, even turn back and reset if it's not setting up properly. Stark departure from last year's approach of, "chip it out chip it in, mash the puck up ice at all costs". It's refreshing to see...hopefully things start to run more smoothly as the season gets going.

The play through the neutral zone is honestly the biggest difference to me though. There's an actual transition game shaping up! Under Torts last year, guys mostly just played in straight lines through the neutral zone as though it didn't exist. Rushing up and down the ice as a big gaggle of players on an even horizontal plane against a well set defence. The puck moved north-south, the players chased it north-south, it was maddening to watch. Already with Willie D we're seeing all kinds of exchanges and lateral play, movement and viable puck support between the bluelines, interesting set plays even. It's almost as though he recognizes that the neutral zone has become one of the most critical areas of the ice in today's game.

It's still a long ways from a finished product...and i honestly don't think we have the personnel in place to become anything like those old "high flying Canucks" of yore, but it's really exciting progress in the right direction at least. I'm excited to see where it ends up.

 

[denkiteki]

Lines are interchangeable, as always. It doesn't follow that Horvat, Dorsett, etc would never be healthy scratches, but I'm pretty comfortable keeping those 14.

Hansen - issue is if he's to play on 3rd, 4ht, or be traded, never on 2nd
Mattias - better than Sestito and (probably) Dorsett, sure, but despite the size brings no truculence. Sucks asset wise is also true, but that's the previous admin doing. Also not exactly indispensable for PK
Bonino, Vey, Richardson and Horvat - can handle centreing the PK, which doesn't even need a true centreman per say, if not starting in D zone
Horvat - offensive development will take time, won't be breaking the bank for his 2nd contract
3 goalies - no one believes Benning will carry them for any meaningful period

Problem is even if it isn't a meaningful period of time, beside Jensen, everyone you listed needs to clear waivers. Besides Sestito, none of them will clear. Horvat can't be recalled after he gets sent down.

Hansen's production (before last year) seem to suggest he could be a 2nd liner. Of course last year was a nightmare year for him and many others. Part of that is probably the system change where everyone has no idea what they are doing and once JT lost the locker room, everyone just played poorly.

As far as trading Hansen, i believe he has a NTC so its not as easy as you might suggest. Also trades aren't all that common. They do happen but the odds of multiple players being dealt at the same time (more so specific roster players) is pretty low (except during the deadline).

Mattias is part of MG era but he's still an asset. Its just like saying Horvat was old admin and we should just give him away. That just doesn't happen. If Mattias is better than some players (like the 2 both you and i more or less agree on) and we have no cap issues, no reason for us to get rid of him. More so since he's a UFA at the end of the year so if we were out of it, he'll fetch us a mid round pick at the deadline. I'm not saying he's the best PKer we have... i'm saying he's the 2nd/3rd best C (depends on how you view Bonino who's also below average in the circle) as PKer. Vey and H.Sedin aren't very likely to be on the PK. If nothing else, whoever we have as the #12 forward likely won't be any better than Mattias and we have no where to spend any additional cap space we might gain from getting rid of him at the moment.

As far as Horvat breaking the bank or not... its not just his 2nd contract, his UFA status will also be @ 26 instead of 27 if he plays this year. Basically we lose 1 year of control period, not just 2nd contract. Like i said, i have no issue with him being on the 4th line in the playoffs if it makes us a better team but if its for a season where we might not make the playoff, that just isn't a good long term plan. Also @ a 4th line role, i really don't think he'll be much (if any) better than Richardson (at least this season). If we want to play him on the 3rd line, that's a different story.

Not to mention we are burning a year on his ELC and a roster spot because at any time he gets sent down, its back to Jr... meaning he pretty much locks out a roster spot for the year. A spot that could be used to call up players during the year and change up the line-up if needs be. We probably will have 3 (HS, Jensen, BG) decent/good prospects in Utica that might see some NHL action this year. On top of other players/4th liners like Archibald that might get called up at some point. Sending him down after burning a year isn't really an option since its a PR nightmare (at least in a city like Vancouver where any move is talked about 24/7 by the media and the fans).

I agree that we probably won't have 3 goalies all year and that really only affects Horvat at the start of the year. Who we get back for whichever goalie we move (personally i have a feeling it'll be Lack just because we'll get a much better return for him) is unknown. It could be a roster player or it could be prospect/picks. Either way, it would likely be after final cuts meaning we'll start the year with 3 goalies.

The only way i see Horvat making the team is as 3rd line C and only if Vey/Bonino are both on the 2nd line and one of them are on the wing. Pretty much a line-up similar to what Spectrefire suggested. Tho i really don't see Dorsett being a 13th forward considering what we gave up for him but he'll pretty much be bumped down to 13th forward if anyone on a ELC makes the team.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Higgins+Bonino would be an interesting one to try for sure. Higgy can be a pretty nifty complementary "facilitator" type player. Shinkaruk+Bonino might be of interest as well. If one of Shinkaruk or Higgins is comfortable on the RW, that might be an interesting trio actually. Though Jensen has seemed kind of in sync with Bonino also and is a good fit on the RW.

Also seems worthwhile to revisit that apparent Kassian+Matthias chemistry, see if there's still anything there. Maybe even try sticking Vey in the middle of that as the playmaker with a pair of big heavy wingers?

Higgins played right wing in Montreal on occasion. He wasn't that bad, actually. I think Higgins with either Vey or Shinkaruk would be interesting. I definitely think Burrows needs to start in the bottom six and work his way back up. Too much rust on him right now. I also think he'd pair better with Horvat than Bonino.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

I think Shinkaruk needs a year on the farm, it will do him good. Coming off a missed year of development, he's going to burn out at some point and struggle - better to do that on the farm where he'll get steadier minutes and opportunity.

Jensen could be ready to make the leap, he's got NHL size to last the season. I really think concussion issues may have held him back and now that he's healthy and confident, he looks like he did in his first stint at camp.

Not surprised that Kassian might start slow. I think he needs to get comfortable and will improve as the season progresses. I fully expect 40-45 points for him this year and will be disappointed if it doesn't happen.

Right now it seems Vey will likely beat out Horvat for the 2C/3C spot and that's fine - I'd rather we bring Horvat around slowly. The major concern is that Sedin, Bonino and Vey are all smaller guys down the middle. Not to mention Richardson as our 4C. Still it is a more skilled and creative group than we had last year and that alone will make a difference defensively.

I'd love for this team to somehow acquire Ryan Ellis out of Nashville.