Confirmed with Link: Canucks fire GM Jim Benning, AGM John Weisbrod - Part II

[Gstank]

lol here i come!

Canucks (2014-2021) rank: 26th in pts%, 3rd in first rounds draft position, 17th in draft picks, 26th in round 1-3 draft picks and 13th in NHLers produced. ( I didn't count Virt or tryamikin so flame away) (also did this in the offseason so Pod didn't get counted)

The hit% (nhlers/draft picks) ranks 21st, though I ranked them 1st in "stars" produced

Keep in mind that most of the picks in the last 4 drafts haven't solidified themselves in NHL roles yet. The Canucks numbers will go down as 2019-2021 draft picks make their home in the NHL

So if im reading this right we are 17th in the amount of draft picks but 13th in the amount of NHLers produced (higher if you are Virtanen because lets face it he was/is an NHLer)

26th in picks with the amount of top 3 rounds but again top 13 in NHLer produced

also does that 26th in pts% include player who arent currently on the team?

If all that is true we had a lot less picks but still produced a lot of NHLers which is apparently poor drafting?

 

[bandwagonesque]

lol here i come!

Canucks (2014-2021) rank: 26th in pts%, 3rd in first rounds draft position, 17th in draft picks, 26th in round 1-3 draft picks and 13th in NHLers produced. ( I didn't count Virt or tryamikin so flame away) (also did this in the offseason so Pod didn't get counted)

The hit% (nhlers/draft picks) ranks 21st, though I ranked them 1st in "stars" produced

Keep in mind that most of the picks in the last 4 drafts haven't solidified themselves in NHL roles yet. The Canucks numbers will go down as 2019-2021 draft picks make their home in the NHL

These ranks and percentages don’t actually say anything coherent. You haven’t even quantified the quality of the players apart from categorizing some of them as “stars.” It’s like counting the total number of salmon caught by various fisherman, separately counting any salmon over 50 pounds, then using this data to determine who caught the greatest quantity of fish by weight. It just doesn’t work.

 

[Gstank]

Lastly if we take out the 2014 draft because that wasnt a full year of Benning running the scouting department where do we rank

Also Ill add Bostons 2014 draft which Benning was apart of has over 1000 NHL games played with 5 picks

 

[Scorvat]

These ranks and percentages don’t actually say anything coherent. You haven’t even quantified the quality of the players apart from categorizing some of them as “stars.”

true this shouldn't be taken for really anything and there is probably a huge margin for error because I manually just decided to categorize players as Nhlers or not and prospects or not and stars or not based on their hockey db boxscore page. Also alot of these players roles or categories are still in flux and all these rankings and %'s can change when I look back at it next year

Other then the numbers of picks and the average first round draft position alot of these are based on my own subjectivity of what constitutes a NHL player, which obviously should be taken for a grain of salt

 

[Scorvat]

So if im reading this right we are 17th in the amount of draft picks but 13th in the amount of NHLers produced (higher if you are Virtanen because lets face it he was/is an NHLer)

26th in picks with the amount of top 3 rounds but again top 13 in NHLer produced

also does that 26th in pts% include player who arent currently on the team?

If all that is true we had a lot less picks but still produced a lot of NHLers which is apparently poor drafting?

But alot of these ranking are going to go down in a few years once the 2019-2021 draft picks make their mark. It looks like at this moment that the Canucks might produce 1 or 2 more players from this draft but who knows. I wouldn't say poor drafting, but slightly above average?

The Ducks, Blues, Hurricanes are who I would put at the top of the drafting class in the last 7 years

 

[Scorvat]

you shouldn’t include 2014. That was not a Benning draft.

Agreed but I'm just looking at a teams drafting record through 8 year windows (Benning windows)

 

[Scorvat]

Source so i can look into this deeper?

Me spending 7 hours during a layover in August going through every teams drafting page on hockey db and putting little marks if I thought a star or player was produced. Lots of fun work, should be taken as gospel and definitely refutes your argument



I've started to this for more fixed eras like 1998-2005 and am doing a more careful and detailed job

 

[Diversification]

This is so many different layers of pathetic. To recap, as Green's reputation swirls ever deeper into the toilet watching Boudreau take the same roster, but hit with more injuries and COVID, outperform him on just about every metric possible, this leaks out. "But the other guys made me coach this way. If I could have only done it the way I wanted it would have been super duper awesome!" A lot of parallels to Elizabeth Holmes' defense that her boyfriend was the one pulling the strings behind the scenes and that she was just as much a victim as everyone else.

 

[RandV]

Even if the teams failings in the standings this season was 100% on Green, it was still Benning's decision to give him a new contract rather than bring in a different coach. Like how the prior season, it was Benning's decision to let Markstrom/Tanev/Toffoli go and the results tanked the season. Like what happened nearly every season he'd been running the team.

Thank god Benning was finally held accountable and got fired with Green here, and didn't get to cling to his job riding the bump from Boudreau.

 

[Nucker101]

This is so many different layers of pathetic. To recap, as Green's reputation swirls ever deeper into the toilet watching Boudreau take the same roster, but hit with more injuries and COVID, outperform him on just about every metric possible, this leaks out. "But the other guys made me coach this way. If I could have only done it the way I wanted it would have been super duper awesome!" A lot of parallels to Elizabeth Holmes' defense that her boyfriend was the one pulling the strings behind the scenes and that she was just as much a victim as everyone else.

We all know the system was apparently tweaked this year(thus the better defensive play at 5v5), but these guys are acting like Green's system hasn't been heavily flawed for years now. I don't remember the same narrative when AV, Torts or WD were fired, it's pretty bizarre because usually local media loves to question head coaches. And here you have local media defending a coach who did a bad job. Wild.

 

[Orca Smash]

I used to not mind sat but between his ryan johnson hype and these absurd leaks from him to make green look helpless, have to wonder if hes being used as a pawn for green and ryan johnson.

 

[Gstank]

Leaks are 100% from Green and Bum

 

[mathonwy]

I mean, if we're going to rake Benning over the coals for Juolevi, he should receive consideration for Hoglander or Demko or whomever.

But that doesn't mean he single-handedly did an amazing job and elevated the Canucks drafting to an elite level or whatever. Because he didn't.

I consider him an idiot.

Good?

 

[mriswith]

It's just like the Benning defense of "ownership made him do it".

Ownership might have demanded we compete immediately but that didn't have to mean paying a ton to acquire gudbranson, leaking assets with every transaction, letting tons of ufa's walk for free, doubling down on mistakes by extending the mistakes to large contracts, etc.

Benning and ownership might have demanded that Green play a collapsing defensive system, or whatever they're implying he was required to do, but that doesn't mean it had to be... whatever it actually was.

Nor is there any way to excuse every young player completely stagnating under green after the first half of their rookie season. Or his inability to teach literally anyone to PK. Or his constant bench minors. Or his patented "maximum confusion and hatred"™ style of benching rookies immediately after they scored or had a good game, or made one mistake.

They both sucked, their sucking was synergistic with each other, and most of the team hated both of them. Idk why the media is still fighting this.

 

[mathonwy]

It's just like the Benning defense of "ownership made him do it".

Ownership might have demanded we compete immediately but that didn't have to mean paying a ton to acquire gudbranson, leaking assets with every transaction, letting tons of ufa's walk for free, doubling down on mistakes by extending the mistakes to large contracts, etc.

Benning and ownership might have demanded that Green play a collapsing defensive system, or whatever they're implying he was required to do, but that doesn't mean it had to be... whatever it actually was.

Nor is there any way to excuse every young player completely stagnating under green after the first half of their rookie season. Or his inability to teach literally anyone to PK. Or his constant bench minors. Or his patented "maximum confusion and hatred"™ style of benching rookies immediately after they scored or had a good game, or made one mistake.

They both sucked, their sucking was synergistic with each other, and most of the team hated both of them. Idk why the media is still fighting this.

One idiot enabled the other idiot.

 

[Nucker101]

It's just like the Benning defense of "ownership made him do it".

Ownership might have demanded we compete immediately but that didn't have to mean paying a ton to acquire gudbranson, leaking assets with every transaction, letting tons of ufa's walk for free, doubling down on mistakes by extending the mistakes to large contracts, etc.

Benning and ownership might have demanded that Green play a collapsing defensive system, or whatever they're implying he was required to do, but that doesn't mean it had to be... whatever it actually was.

Nor is there any way to excuse every young player completely stagnating under green after the first half of their rookie season. Or his inability to teach literally anyone to PK. Or his constant bench minors. Or his patented "maximum confusion and hatred"™ style of benching rookies immediately after they scored or had a good game, or made one mistake.

They both sucked, their sucking was synergistic with each other, and most of the team hated both of them. Idk why the media is still fighting this.

Also makes you wonder who would leak info that states that Green was forced to play a system he didn't want and forced to work with a coach management hired.....this info being made public only benefits one man.

 

[Fatass]

One idiot enabled the other idiot.

YUp. Green’s winnng % with us was less than Willie (the second worse coach we’ve ever had) D. And who hired both? OUr worse, by FAR, GM. The most pathetic RV history, and it ain’t, not even close. this Hanks close. thanks BEnning, you piece of ****

 

[mathonwy]

YUp. Green’s winnng % with us was less than Willie (the second worse coach we’ve ever had) D. And who hired both? OUr worse, by FAR, GM. The most pathetic RV history, and it ain’t, not even close. this Hanks close. thanks BEnning, you piece of ****

While I have an extreme amount of disdain for Jimbo, Weisbrod is the real snake in the grass.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

I consider him an idiot.

Good?

Yeah, I don't really disagree and haven't been.

Again, Benning occupied space. He was "in charge" when the pick was made. Whoopty f***.

 

[arttk]

Boston is also in need of a shakeup. I hope they get Jimmy and Greeny.

They need some good old fashion Boston style hockey

 

[arttk]

I mean, is that good? They watched a minuscule sample size and got tunnel vision on a guy with a muddied track record from playing in a lower-level league, then took him in a spot where the analytically inclined would have taken someone else (I know Logan Stankoven's name normally comes up, but we know the Canucks have a strict policy of not drafting talent out of the WHL). Like maybe they get lucky and he turns out, but it's kind of hard to take that as the "reward" at this point.


Any time I'm feeling down I'm going to come back to look at these threads.

Especially now, basically confirming how close this could have been to not happening because of, well, the current patch in the schedule and Francesco's slow brain, it's such a relief. The folks trying to claim "See? See? It was Green all along!" despite 7.5 years and all the chips being pushed in even to get to this point... they're hilarious.

Wait we have a policy to not draft from The WHL?

 

[Jyrki21]

Wait we have a policy to not draft from The WHL?

I was being tongue-in-cheek. I said a policy of not drafting talent from the WHL. Ron Delorme is quite good at finding humans who won’t help an NHL team, though.

 

[Jyrki21]

Even if the teams failings in the standings this season was 100% on Green, it was still Benning's decision to give him a new contract rather than bring in a different coach.

Even on top of that, it was eight offseasons of chair-shuffling and numerous futures swapped to even get to a point where it was possible to tank that badly under poor coaching, which is by no means a given. The Twitter contingent looking to excuse management by praising the "capable roster" sort of seem to ignore that aspect.

Thank god Benning was finally held accountable and got fired with Green here, and didn't get to cling to his job riding the bump from Boudreau.

I said it yesterday, but I believe we were perilously close to not having it, after Aqua's comments of waiting to see if there was a turnaround. I think if you replay this season from the start 10 times, in probably 8 of them we get no management change, especially if we still get a coaching change. It's hard to describe anything as "lucky" after all we've been through, but I think we were damn lucky in this respect.

 

[Ninjadude]

In all honesty, is it a surprise that the Nucks are playing better without the Benning management group??? Clearly it shows the team did not want to play for Green or Benning and thankfully Aquaman made the change.

I was hoping to tank again, as I have in previous years, but now I’m ready to CHEER this team on to WIN, not lose!!

so far, all positives with the changes and it’s a new Canucks team out there. Some tweaks still needed, but the boys are playing with heart and a desire to win for this coach.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Lastly if we take out the 2014 draft because that wasnt a full year of Benning running the scouting department where do we rank

Also Ill add Bostons 2014 draft which Benning was apart of has over 1000 NHL games played with 5 picks

Didnt he overrule the scouts that year?

Did he somehow lose all the knowledge on that years prospects he gained being part of Bostons scouting team when moving to Van?

How about we dont ignore 2014?