Confirmed with Link: Canucks fire GM Jim Benning, AGM John Weisbrod - Part II

[VanJack]

You know if Benning had just held on to most of his draft picks, the Canucks would be in a far better position today. But trying to short-circuit the rebuild by squandering draft picks for the likes of Sutter, Gudbranson, Vey, Pedan and Tofoli, plus a host of other later round picks in a number of other ill-fated trades, really set the franchise back.

When you look at this current Canuck team, the heavy lifting is being carried by guys they drafted in the first and second rounds. Problem is, there just aren't enough of them.

 

[mathonwy]

You know if Benning had just held on to most of his draft picks, the Canucks would be in a far better position today. But trying to short-circuit the rebuild by squandering draft picks for the likes of Sutter, Gudbranson, Vey, Pedan and Tofoli, plus a host of other later round picks in a number of other ill-fated trades, really set the franchise back.

When you look at this current Canuck team, the heavy lifting is being carried by guys they drafted in the first and second rounds. Problem is, there just aren't enough of them.

Sutter was a 1st round pick. People forget that.

 

[M2Beezy]

Sutter was a 1st round pick. People forget that.

And a poorly selected one at that

 

[rypper]

To be fair, the 2007 draft was pretty shit.

 

[valkynax]

And a poorly selected one at that

So were Gudbranson and Pouliot, think about that...

 

[logan5]

You know if Benning had just held on to most of his draft picks, the Canucks would be in a far better position today. But trying to short-circuit the rebuild by squandering draft picks for the likes of Sutter, Gudbranson, Vey, Pedan and Tofoli, plus a host of other later round picks in a number of other ill-fated trades, really set the franchise back.

When you look at this current Canuck team, the heavy lifting is being carried by guys they drafted in the first and second rounds. Problem is, there just aren't enough of them.

How many 1st and 2nd round draft picks can the cap carry?

 

[rypper]

How many 1st and 2nd round draft picks can the cap carry?

What kind of question is this? There's not a set salary for first or second round picks.

Plus if there isn't space within the cap for for picks you churn them for more picks, futures, other options.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

How many 1st and 2nd round draft picks can the cap carry?

Far more than the same players acquired via UFA / on their 2nd contract.

 

[lawrence]

You know if Benning had just held on to most of his draft picks, the Canucks would be in a far better position

yea. I also after the 2020 season, there was enough cap room to actually sign 2 of Toffoli Tanev and Markstrom. Obviously the right thing was to transition to Demko, and retain Tanev and Toffoli. Too bad he didn't do anything of that, his jobless now rightfully so.

 

[megatron]

How many 1st and 2nd round draft picks can the cap carry?

Theoretically infinity.

 

[F A N]

yea. I also after the 2020 season, there was enough cap room to actually sign 2 of Toffoli Tanev and Markstrom. Obviously the right thing was to transition to Demko, and retain Tanev and Toffoli. Too bad he didn't do anything of that, his jobless now rightfully so.

He ended up using that money on Schmidt. In hindsight, keeping Tanev and Toffoli were the better moves.

 

[vanuck]

What kind of question is this? There's not a set salary for first or second round picks.

Plus if there isn't space within the cap for for picks you churn them for more picks, futures, other options.

Reminds me of the old argument for why drafting Juolevi ended up being a good thing since we landed Pettersson.

It's inane and reeks of desperation. What's up with this fascination with using terrible justifications to defend every little thing about Benning?

 

[F A N]

Reminds me of the old argument for why drafting Juolevi ended up being a good thing since we landed Pettersson.

It's inane and reeks of desperation. What's up with this fascination with using terrible justifications to defend every little thing about Benning?

This isn't a direct response to what you said above as I don't disagree.

I do want to say that a lot of people don't try and analyze likely consequences of every move. For example, people like to list the names that a drafting guru or a "Potato" would have drafted, but the team wouldn't be in a position to draft many of those players if they in fact made those great draft selections. For example, if the team drafted Nylander or Ehlers, Pastrnak, Demko, and Point in 2014 followed by Boeser and Cirelli in 2015, what are the chances of the Canucks drafting top 5 in 2016? If if they were a lottery team and draft Chychrun or McAvoy in 2016, what are the chances they end up drafting Petey and Hughes?

 

[bossram]

This isn't a direct response to what you said above as I don't disagree.

I do want to say that a lot of people don't try and analyze likely consequences of every move. For example, people like to list the names that a drafting guru or a "Potato" would have drafted, but the team wouldn't be in a position to draft many of those players if they in fact made those great draft selections. For example, if the team drafted Nylander or Ehlers, Pastrnak, Demko, and Point in 2014 followed by Boeser and Cirelli in 2015, what are the chances of the Canucks drafting top 5 in 2016? If if they were a lottery team and draft Chychrun or McAvoy in 2016, what are the chances they end up drafting Petey and Hughes?

I mean, if the Canucks walked away from the 2014 draft with Nylander, Pastrnak, Point, Arvidsson, and Kase (all of whom I wanted in that draft), the consequences are that the team is likely competitive two years later and a true contender by 2019-20.

 

[RandV]

I mean, if the Canucks walked away from the 2014 draft with Nylander, Pastrnak, Point, Arvidsson, and Kase (all of whom I wanted in that draft), the consequences are that the team is likely competitive two years later and a true contender by 2019-20.

It works on a sliding scale. When you're in the basement if you make hits on 2-3 draft years, then you climb out. If you miss, the competitive window just slides to the right.

Also not only was it a bad argument but it's not like Pettersson/Hughes are these insane prizes we're damn lucky we tanked a few more years for. They're good but really they're middle of the pack franchise players. It's not like Edmonton who bungled it with Hall/Eberle/RNH then went on to draft McDavid and Draisaitl.

 

[F A N]

I mean, if the Canucks walked away from the 2014 draft with Nylander, Pastrnak, Point, Arvidsson, and Kase (all of whom I wanted in that draft), the consequences are that the team is likely competitive two years later and a true contender by 2019-20.

Well I'm not sure if the team would be a true contender with those guys. Nylander, Pastrnak, and Point would be good pieces to build around. You still got to build the defense and have the right supporting cast.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Sutter was a 1st round pick. People forget that.

Bout the only time Benning didn't give up a 1st round pick for a player.

 

[Hit the post]

I mean, if the Canucks walked away from the 2014 draft with Nylander, Pastrnak, Point, Arvidsson, and Kase (all of whom I wanted in that draft), the consequences are that the team is likely competitive two years later and a true contender by 2019-20.

Or if he had just kept Jared McCann instead of dealing him & a high 2nd round pick for NoGoodBranSuck; kept Gustav Forsling instead of dealing him for a guy that couldn't skate, and fired Willie's ass in the sun so Tryamkin stayed in Vancouver.................the 2014 Canucks draft class would still be looking pretty damn good despite Jake Virtanen busting hard.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

How many 1st and 2nd round draft picks can the cap carry?

That's a very odd question Logan5. You know, even on teams that draft well many 1st round picks and most 2nd round picks don't turn into star players, but instead role players that fill out a contending lineup. And, if a team miraculously does draft a dozen star players in the same generation and can't fit them under the cap you can trade some of them for role players or futures to continue an era's dominance into the future.

Do you seriously think if the Canucks had a few more A-grade prospects right now they would somehow be in "big doo-doo" because of cap issues?

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Closing in on 1,000.

For anyone that wants to continue the slow, agonizing torture of discussing Benning and his regime, that can now happen in the ex-Canucks thread.