Post-Game Talk: Canucks def. Stars - 3-1 (Joshua, Boeser, Rathbone)

Tables of Stats

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You all have a lot more faith than I do in this team

Until they can play this way when games actually matter in October, I wont hold much into these garbage time wins

Every year its the same thing
There are a couple of slight reasons to think that there has been a real change this season as opposed to last season.

1) Since Tocchet took over we're giving up the third-fewest shots in the league.

2) Our PK under Tocchet is running at 79.2% which is a mid-pack PK.

3) We're only giving up 3.12 goals per game under Tocchet which is middle of the pack.

We had a similar bump under Boudreau but Boudreau had significantly better goaltending.

NameGPGSW - L - OTLSASA/60GASv%GAATOI
T. Demko191812 - 5 - 157431.4743.9252.361094:21
J. Halak542 - 1 - 110225.8712.8823.04236:33
S. Martin331 - 0 - 211837.415.9581.59189:15
M. DiPietro110 - 1 - 01717.714.8243.1457:21

NameGPGSW - L - OTLSASA/60GASv%GAATOI
T. Demko10107 - 3 - 027927.9224.9142.40599:37
S. Martin330 - 3 - 08127.2015.8155.04118:42
C. Delia773 - 1 - 217024.0225.8533.53424:41
A. Silovs552 - 2 - 015229.8114.9082.75305:56

I'll dig into the underlying numbers on a day off when I have the time but the eye test and results have been better under Tocchet than they were under Bruce.
 

beachcomber

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There is a huge difference between picking 6 or 7 than 11 or 12. Reading these posts I can't believe people are buying into these garbage time wins... AGAIN. Run it back next year Baldy I'll be here for the Schadenfreude.
Well, what would you suggest they do then? Bench the stars? How well would that go over with the team? You think Tocchet came here to orchestrate a straight on tank?
 

Hansen

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Oct 12, 2011
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There are a couple of slight reasons to think that there has been a real change this season as opposed to last season.

1) Since Tocchet took over we're giving up the third-fewest shots in the league.

2) Our PK under Tocchet is running at 79.2% which is a mid-pack PK.

3) We're only giving up 3.12 goals per game under Tocchet which is middle of the pack.

We had a similar bump under Boudreau but Boudreau had significantly better goaltending.

NameGPGSW - L - OTLSASA/60GASv%GAATOI
T. Demko191812 - 5 - 157431.4743.9252.361094:21
J. Halak542 - 1 - 110225.8712.8823.04236:33
S. Martin331 - 0 - 211837.415.9581.59189:15
M. DiPietro110 - 1 - 01717.714.8243.1457:21

NameGPGSW - L - OTLSASA/60GASv%GAATOI
T. Demko10107 - 3 - 027927.9224.9142.40599:37
S. Martin330 - 3 - 08127.2015.8155.04118:42
C. Delia773 - 1 - 217024.0225.8533.53424:41
A. Silovs552 - 2 - 015229.8114.9082.75305:56

I'll dig into the underlying numbers on a day off when I have the time but the eye test and results have been better under Tocchet than they were under Bruce.
Yeah except the goaltending for Tocchet was just as bad until Demko came back with the exception of a couple games of Silovs. The goaltending we’re getting now is the same that supported the Boudreau bump, and in similar garbage time games
 

racerjoe

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You all have a lot more faith than I do in this team

Until they can play this way when games actually matter in October, I wont hold much into these garbage time wins

Every year its the same thing

This isn't meant for just you, but this is a terrible opinion. If the Canucks season had been the exact opposite you would be saying the same thing. If they started out well, then fell off a cliff you would be calling these games meaningless. In an 82 game season you will have your ups and downs.

This isn't to say I think we are a great team or anything like that. I am just saying you can't discount games as meaningless like this.
 

Tables of Stats

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Yeah except the goaltending for Tocchet was just as bad until Demko came back with the exception of a couple games of Silovs. The goaltending we’re getting now is the same that supported the Boudreau bump, and in similar garbage time games
That's very wrong:

Bruce got an average of .927 sv% in his first 26 games while Tocchet has had .886 sv% in his first 25. That's a massive difference.
 

RandV

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Yeah except the goaltending for Tocchet was just as bad until Demko came back with the exception of a couple games of Silovs. The goaltending we’re getting now is the same that supported the Boudreau bump, and in similar garbage time games
The Canucks hired Bruce Boudreau on around (taking a quick look) Dec 5th, after a 8-15-2 start to the season, meaning they went 32-15-5 under him that season. Is it that hard for people to remember these things? That wasn't "garbage time" like people are talking about now. And I think people here are really stretching that term, garbage time should be the last week or two of the season, not the entire final quarter+.

Rather what's missing is a good start to the season and more importantly consistency. I'm not going to take the time to compile the exact stretches but the Canucks year this season has basically been lost on two extended bad streaks, one to start the year and the other leading up to Boudreau's firing. On the other end, this is their second extended winning stretch on the season, with another one coming under Boudreau somewhere around the mid-season mark that got them close to a playoff spot. Two bad months + two great months + two average months = an 80-90 point season. Timing doesn't really matter, they just have to cut those big losing skids for a successful regular season.
 

Fatass

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We win! Are these wins helping us improve our playoff position though?
 

Cogburn

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So you support calling them loses because the league does but don't support what that same league calls .500 because...?
I don't support this league at all, in any capacity. The Canucks could leave the NHL and play in the SHL, and they'd probably have more support from me.

I view this more as philosophical versus how the points are actually calculated. A loss with an extra point is still a loss, even if it's counted as some unholy hybrid of a tie and a win.
 

Tables of Stats

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I don't support this league at all, in any capacity. The Canucks could leave the NHL and play in the SHL, and they'd probably have more support from me.

I view this more as philosophical versus how the points are actually calculated. A loss with an extra point is still a loss, even if it's counted as some unholy hybrid of a tie and a win.
And .500 counts all points the same. You got half the points available to you but whatever means.
 

m9

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Myers has looked not just good in the last two games, but really good. The world is surely ending.
There is no chance he can keep it up, can he?

No. But he will be much better with Hronek in the lineup ahead of him.
 
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orcatown

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Right now team appears to be able to hang with any team in the League. Thought they were unlucky not to beat Vegas and throughly shut down the Stars in this one. You have to wonder how the sad sack team of the first part of the year has come so far. Would say, among other things, this involves

- getting more structure. Now appears Rutherford's comments about the Boudreau era had some truth. Hopefully it's not all new coach bounce but Tocchet seems to have made a big difference

- getting the real Demko back. Might be the key factor. Goal tending was, at many points this year, a bad joke.

- allowing newer players to get in sync. Canucks added a lot of new players (Joshua, Stillman, Bear, Aman, Kuzmenko, etc) at or near the beginning of the season and you had to expect some dysfunction as a result.

- cleaning up the PK. Source of many losses - a complete fiasco much of the time. Some may not want to hear this but biggest change here has been the removal of Horvat. Always felt it was suicide to have him out there and evidence for that opinion now seems pretty solid.

- having guys come up from Abby and seamlessly fit in. Hiring Colliton now seems an excellent move.

- Miller's stepped up efforts. Times early in the year when you were getting convinced Miller just couldn't play center and needed to be back on the wing. Also, you wondered if he should be on the PP given all the muffed passes.. Now he has become a two way horse and basically the team leader. Pettersson has been great but Miller has been clearly the best player over the last month.

Probably more things you can identify but changes are obvious. What we have to see is just how permanent these changes are. Had our teeth kicked in before (actually on several occasions) when raised expectations have been trashed and most we'll only be convinced when we see the same play next October.

In this game

Good

Miller - again thought he was the best player on the ice. Has taken on the role of providing physical push back as well as just about everything else. Plays like this and his contract looks excellent.

Joshua - love the way he is putting away his chances. Work on the PK continues to improve.

Kuzmenko - lots of excellent little plays to create offense. Starting to play better when he is away from Pettersson

Hughes - defensive game might have been better than his offensive game in this one.

Demko - play down low around his net was very good. That's where Dallas thrives and Demko took most of this away

Hronek - guy plays with economy of effort. Does not get himself out the play by getting himself tied up with some player. Everything is quick and efficient. Can see he has very good anticipation and has the next play figured out before he gets the puck on his stick.

Myers - he's an easy off season trade for something decent if he plays like this. Playing big and a little mean.

Burroughs - go back and forth on whether he is a bona vide NHL defenseman. Looked like one in this game. Canucks got a decision to make here.

Di Guiseppe - lot about playing hockey is just about doing the say things again and again. That's especially true if you are a checking line player. Just stay in the structure, positionally strong and play from the inside out. Di Guiseppe is showing that the years of playing pro hockey have rubbed off on him. Continues to contribute heavily on the forecheck, the back check and in getting the puck up the boards and out of his end. Don't see how he doesn't make the team next year. Too bad he missed the open net - he deserved a goal.

Others

Boeser - no doubt the effort is better. However, he is be given prime time on things like the PP and is not coming thru like he probably should. I think that Kuzmenko would have done a lot better on the two man advantage and on the other PPs than Boeser did. Indeed, he wasn't very good there. I'm thinking maybe the team is hoping Boeser breaks out and scores a bunch making him easier to move. Still, he is more involved in the general run of play and actually is even blocking shots. More hustle, but still lacks the speed to be the threat he should be, given his pay cheque.

Podkolzin - lots of hustle and helped his line. Still there is a lack of ability to finish in his plays (such as making the good pass). Thought Kravtsov had better game and is getting more into the flow of the game. Both of these players need to gain more confidence and develop a more NA style game. There is still a stiffness and a good measure of indecision in their play.
 

Hansen

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That's very wrong:

Bruce got an average of .927 sv% in his first 26 games while Tocchet has had .886 sv% in his first 25. That's a massive difference.
Yeah and when Bruce was on his way out the same goaltending carried over to Tocchet. But now that Demko is back we're seeing the same results that caused the Bruce bump
 

Cogburn

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And .500 counts all points the same. You got half the points available to you but whatever means.
I guess I'm just a black-and-white kind of guy then. You win, or don't win, and I will go about counting a shootout loss the same as a regulation, and an overtime win the same as a regulation win. If we're playing games to conclusion, I guess I have an problem with the entire OT/SO set up anyway. If it's good enough for playoff formats, it should be good enough for regular season.
 

Shareefruck

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It's interesting how Miller and Pettersson seem to have just completely swapped roles from last year. Miller was fantastic all of last season, while Petterson had a terrible first half followed by a lights out second half, and then Pettersson has been fantastic all of this season, while Miller had a terrible first half followed by a lights out second half.
 
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Play

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I don't support this league at all, in any capacity. The Canucks could leave the NHL and play in the SHL, and they'd probably have more support from me.

I view this more as philosophical versus how the points are actually calculated. A loss with an extra point is still a loss, even if it's counted as some unholy hybrid of a tie and a win.
i would like to see the Canucks in the SHL. They would be a top 3 team once they adjusted to the ice.
 

VanJack

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The performance of the Canucks blueline in tonight's game re-ignites that old debate about the true state of the back end.

Were the d-men bad at the start of the season because they just weren't very good players? Or were they bad because the team was playing with zero structure or discipline, and the goaltending was terrible?

I think we're getting the answer. If the Canucks--with a blueline of Hughes, Myers, Bear, Hronek, Burroughs and Rathbone-- can shut down the Stars then it has to be system-related.

I mean seriously. This team was headed for the worst PK in NHL history. Now their PK rate is back over the 70 percent mark and they lead the league in shorthanded goals.

I think Allvin and Rutherford's biggest regret this season is that they didn't make a coaching change in the offseason, and bring in Tocchet to work with this group from training camp on. The season would likely have turned out a lot different.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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The performance of the Canucks blueline in tonight's game re-ignites that old debate about the true state of the back end.

Were the d-men bad at the start of the season because they just weren't very good players? Or were they bad because the team was playing with zero structure or discipline, and the goaltending was terrible?

I think we're getting the answer. If the Canucks--with a blueline of Hughes, Myers, Bear, Hronek, Burroughs and Rathbone-- can shut down the Stars then it has to be system-related.

I mean seriously. This team was headed for the worst PK in NHL history. Now their PK rate is back over the 70 percent mark and they lead the league in shorthanded goals.

I think Allvin and Rutherford's biggest regret this season is that they didn't make a coaching change in the offseason, and bring in Tocchet to work with this group from training camp on. The season would likely have turned out a lot different.
Before the game started , you suggested that our D was going to get completely annihilated by the Stars forwards..?
 
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