Post-Game Talk: Canucks def. Sharks - 6-5 (OT) (Joshua x2, Hoglander, Mikheyev, Kuzmenko, Pettersson)

[VanJack]

Whats more disconcerting is that they've barely beaten 'tanking' teams in their last 3 games...whilst allowing 11 goals in the last two games.

They look on course to get legitimately mauled against established playoff teams.

Sharks outshot the Canucks 39-27 and dominated in high danger chances. Lost count of the number of times the Sharks were able to walk right into the slot for open looks. The score at the end of the first period alone could easily have been 4-1 for the Sharks.

It's hard to understand how a team can be so bad defensively. I imagine they look at film endlessly to see what's going wrong. But when puck drops, they don't seem capable of doing anything about it.

But your point is well taken.....it's one thing to go down late in games against the likes of the Habs and Sharks. But against the better defensive teams in the league, you're basically dead and buried.

 

[EpochLink]

I have to give Joshua a lot of credit. He was ass earlier in the season.

Putrid ass, he’s been better since

 

[RutherPlan]

People are forgetting Canucks also beat the top teams before this streak of bottom dweller teams.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

People are forgetting Canucks also beat the top teams before this streak of bottom dweller teams.

People are forgetting the Canucks didn't beat any team, top or bottom, for the first 7 games of the season.

 

[racerjoe]

You sound exactly like Benning defenders.

Still zero actual points on why what ever this is they are doing is a good idea. Zero.

I think you somehow view rebuilding as a completely luck based endeavour and that the situation you start your rebuild doesn't matter...?

Maybe that's it?

Im at this point grasping at straws here trying my hardest to understand what the logic is you are using...

edit. Have you thought about this. There are two ways you can go about a rebuild. Reactive and proactive.


He has arbitration rights.

I think he is up for a pretty big raise.

Even the reply before this one to me was mixing up what I was saying. You were take part of it and running with it like that was the main point, when it wasn't even a little bit.

Have you thought there is more than one way to build a team? You seem solely focused on a rebuild.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Even the reply before this one to me was mixing up what I was saying. You were take part of it and running with it like that was the main point, when it wasn't even a little bit.

Have you thought there is more than one way to build a team? You seem solely focused on a rebuild.

You need assets to do any kind of building.

We dont have those assets.

We need to now accumulate assets so we can then build.



My point also still stands.

You have not made any legit points on this "other way to build" what ever you wanna call that way of doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that. Trying to sign players everyone else is trying to sign isnt a plan. Trying to fleece some other team in a trade is not a plan. This is hope.

 

[racerjoe]

You need assets to do any kind of building.

We dont have those assets.

We need to now accumulate assets so we can then build.



My point also still stands.

You have not made any legit points on this "other way to build" what ever you wanna call that way of doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that. Trying to sign players everyone else is trying to sign isnt a plan. Trying to fleece some other team in a trade is not a plan. This is hope.

What do you think we will get when we trade Bo?

You just don't want to see how other teams have done what the Canucks have done, you ignored Pits, and the Panthers, or even STL.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

What do you think we will get when we trade Bo?

Not immediate help.

Well I really really hope a 1st to start and prospects that cant help right now and Id imagine a cap dump of some sort.

You just don't want to see how other teams have done what the Canucks have done, you ignored Pits, and the Panthers, or even STL.

Ignored?

Those teams work for my side of the argument.

 

[racerjoe]

Not immediate help.

Well I really really hope a 1st to start and prospects that cant help right now and Id imagine a cap dump of some sort.

Ignored?

Those teams work for my side of the argument.

You are already mixing your points and moving goal posts. you just asked about assets and obtaining them. My reply is assets from trades like Bo. When they help was not part of your question, and also you really can't know that, until a trade is made.

How long ago did those teams rebuild?The Canucks technically accidentally rebuilt more recently than any of them.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You are already mixing your points and moving goal posts.

Sigh... Its cute that you've learned this debate term.

No I didnt "move goal posts."

Im counting Bo Horvat or what he is bringing in a trade in to my calculation of not having assets within the organization.

you just asked about assets and obtaining them. My reply is assets from trades like Bo. When they help was not part of your question, and also you really can't know that, until a trade is made.

When they help should be part of your rushed retool.

The problem is we are trading Bo to a contender. They wont send back young Dmen on good contracts.

How long ago did those teams rebuild?The Canucks technically accidentally rebuilt more recently than any of them.

Its not a rebuild.

We did not accumulate enough assets in that time period. That is why we are in this situation.

And now you guys are suggesting we do that again..?



This conversation keeps going in circles. Its frankly getting incredibly boring, unless you are willing to actually make an actual case that we are in a position to compete.

I think it comes down to two things that you for what ever reason do not grasp.

1. The Vancouver Canucks are in a far worse shape then you seem to think.

2. There is a natural cycle in the hard cap league. One that pushes you up and then pulls you down. Fighting it, when you are a shit team like the Canucks is extremely counter productive.

 

[racerjoe]

Sigh... Its cute that you've learned this debate term.

No I didnt "move goal posts."

Im counting Bo Horvat or what he is bringing in a trade in to my calculation of not having assets within the organization.


When they help should be part of your rushed retool.

The problem is we are trading Bo to a contender. They wont send back young Dmen on good contracts.

Its not a rebuild.

We did not accumulate enough assets in that time period. That is why we are in this situation.

And now you guys are suggesting we do that again..?



This conversation keeps going in circles. Its frankly getting incredibly boring, unless you are willing to actually make an actual case that we are in a position to compete.

I think it comes down to two things that you for what ever reason do not grasp.

1. The Vancouver Canucks are in a far worse shape then you seem to think.

2. There is a natural cycle in the hard cap league. One that pushes you up and then pulls you down. Fighting it, when you are a shit team like the Canucks is extremely counter productive.

If we received Newhook and a 1st back those are assets. So would you not include them?

At this time last year would you have included Kuze as an asset?

You are assuming a ton here. You are focused on the Canucks getting a young dman back in a Bo trade, and that doesn't need to be the case. Again we could sign Livingstone who has been rumoured to sign with us.

You keep saying we don't have assets, then fail to address how other teams have gotten assets. Again what do you think FLA did a few years ago? How did JR help the Pens get two cups?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

If we received Newhook and a 1st back those are assets. So would you not include them?

At this time last year would you have included Kuze as an asset?

You are assuming a ton here. You are focused on the Canucks getting a young dman back in a Bo trade, and that doesn't need to be the case. Again we could sign Livingstone who has been rumoured to sign with us.

You keep saying we don't have assets, then fail to address how other teams have gotten assets. Again what do you think FLA did a few years ago? How did JR help the Pens get two cups?

We are not in the same situation as Florida of last year and Pittsburgh of 2014.

The Mongols were able to conquer China, why do you think it is a bad idea for Chile to try to conqure China?

 

[Vector]

We are not in the same situation as Florida of last year and Pittsburgh of 2014.

The Mongols were able to conquer China, why do you think it is a bad idea for Chile to try to conqure China?

This has got to be a saying I’m not familiar with. Otherwise…man…I literally don’t know what this means.

 

[racerjoe]

We are not in the same situation as Florida of last year and Pittsburgh of 2014.

The Mongols were able to conquer China, why do you think it is a bad idea for Chile to try to conqure China?

Your metaphor is off. Ghengihs Khan is perhaps the greatest military leader in the history of the world. So if we want to use the mongols, I am saying we have Napoleon, lets build are armed forces around him.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

This has got to be a saying I’m not familiar with. Otherwise…man…I literally don’t know what this means.

Its trying to desperately make him see that it really really really really matters, what the situation for the team in question is, to what is a good plan moving forward.

Your metaphor is off. Ghengihs Khan is perhaps the greatest military leader in the history of the world. So if we want to use the mongols, I am saying we have Napoleon, lets build are armed forces around him.

Oh for f***s sake... This is hopeless.

 

[racerjoe]

Its trying to desperately make him see that it really really really really matters, what the situation for the team in question is, to what is a good plan moving forward.



Oh for f***s sake... This is hopeless.

Yeah cause your metaphor was so freakin terrible.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yeah cause your metaphor was so freakin terrible.

"Why not do what the Avs did last season and keep the team intact and win a cup! Obviously keeping teams intact is the way!"

 

[racerjoe]

"Why not do what the Avs did last season and keep the team intact and win a cup! Obviously keeping teams intact is the way!"

Why not be like Sabres and rebuild it only took them 16 years. Or the Oilers it has to be close to 20 years, and so on.

 

[credulous]

i just don't get why people are so complacent. if you think this team needs to change then you should want to see changes. the longer allvin and jr wait to make changes the more we suffer with this lacklustre team

 

[arttk]

i just don't get why people are so complacent. if you think this team needs to change then you should want to see changes. the longer allvin and jr wait to make changes the more we suffer with this lacklustre team

Complain after new years, nothing is happening anywhere before the holidays

 

[racerjoe]

i just don't get why people are so complacent. if you think this team needs to change then you should want to see changes. the longer allvin and jr wait to make changes the more we suffer with this lacklustre team

Its being realistic when most changes can happen. With a Cap system and most teams being capped out, most deals will happen at the Trade deadline with guys on expiring deals.