Post-Game Talk: Canucks def. Preds - 5-2 - Hat-Trick Petey!

[petterdaddy]

You know things are going well when don’t even play that great but win convincingly. Probably their worst game in the last 5 - a bit more slop, a couple odd-man rushes - but still outshot and outchanced Nashville. Lankinen was pretty weak for them, probably some karma after the show Shesterkin put on in the last game.

- I liked Pettersson’s body language tonight and how happy looked in that interview even more than the hat trick.

- loved Tocchet’s handling of Miller tonight and loved Miller’s reaction to it just as much. Good coaching, good response.

- Beauvillier has looked much better the last couple games and I thought this was overall a good hand for the bottom-6. Lafferty also was very good.

- Hughes-Hronek were excellent aside from one really crappy shift where they were scored on twice. Hughes was everywhere offensively.

- Cole was really good. Skating really well for his age, just a really reliable player.

- Myers bungled the penalty shot play. Minutes go back up, more mistakes start to happen. Soucy really solid though.

- Demko wasn’t super busy but was really solid when needed.

I ask because I respect your opinion;

Are we a good team?

 

[Svencouver]

Would be thrilled if even a single one of our prospects hits. When you have a good team with depth, the idea of adding a Willander or a Lekkerimaki or a Bruz or whoever else that have actually hit their projection is really exciting

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

Totally normal line of thought. Regular season means nothing. Look at Bruins last season, best regular season team in history? Yeah Florida wiped their ass with Boston's face, suck on your participation trophy Marchand.

I think right now the take away is that the team is finding ways to win games when a lot of things are not going the right direction, and you can clearly see team's improvement when pressure mounts. A game such as tonight's would've likely resulted in last year's team snapping like toothpicks.

Yeah we're barely beginning to forge a path to playoffs, but now there are legitimate reasons for some cautious optimism.

I feel like you’ve already made the playoffs and we aren’t there yet due to sample size.

Would be thrilled if even a single one of our prospects hits. When you have a good team with depth, the idea of adding a Willander or a Lekkerimaki or a Bruz or whoever else that have actually hit their projection is really exciting

Huge!!!!

 

[Grub]

Great game. Hughes is a franchise player and for us Canucks he will go down as the best D in Canucks history.

We need to make a move for another top 4 D-men. Lets face it, our star players are at their prime now... we have both Petterson and Miller who is a first line center playing at their prime. It's time to go for it before the window passes and we are cap strapped.

 

[jd22]

Great game. Hughes is a franchise player and for us Canucks he will go down as the best D in Canucks history.

We need to make a move for another top 4 D-men. Lets face it, our star players are at their prime now... we have both Petterson and Miller who is a first line center playing at their prime. It's time to go for it before the window passes and we are cap strapped.

Would you be willing to send out an unprotected 2024 1st rounder now? Dangerous game. But potentially a very high value piece.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Would you be willing to send out an unprotected 2024 1st rounder now? Dangerous game. But potentially a very high value piece.

I would.

 

[The Stig]

Reminds me of decades past when we were rolling.
Good, good.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Would you be willing to send out an unprotected 2024 1st rounder now? Dangerous game. But potentially a very high value piece.

It would probably be worth more now, but a far bigger gamble. I’d say no.

If we’re still doing well in January, possibly.

 

[The Stig]

I don't blame Myers for the penalty shot. He made the right call for not being aggressive and dropping back and had to deal with a 3 on 1.

If I was running the team, I'd waive Joshua and bring up Bains. Joshua is supposed to bring some grit and energy but he doesn't do that so I fail to see the point of keeping him.

Also Friedman is better than advertised.

 

[jd22]

It would probably be worth more now, but a far bigger gamble. I’d say no.

If we’re still doing well in January, possibly.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm loathe to trade away more first round picks. But at the same time (supposing Pete re-signs), the window is the next 3-5 years. While I am traumatized by Elmers buffoonery and foolish waste of picks, I also remember Gillis refusing to pony up for that missing top 6 winger that may have put us over the top. Of course, this team is nowhere near 2010-2011 status.

But too much caution is arguably as bad as insufficient caution. Nevertheless, what we think is irrelevant - and in my eyes, Allvin has earned the benefit of the doubt so far. Lets see where he takes it.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Not a great game for long stretches, but a good bad game if that makes sense.

The kind of 'bad' game that good teams find ways to win, and it had some great nuggets.

Petey is a pure superstar.

Hughes had a 'bad' game meaning he was only superlative some of the time, but that just shows the level he has reached where it's shocking when he doesn't have a brilliant answer to a problem like 1 out of a 100 times.

Wonder if people have the humility to eat their words on Hronek, clearly he's a real game changer for this team.

A lot of people don't understand that the difference between a bad team and a good team isn't that vast (there are outliers, like this year's Sharks are miles away from the 2022 Avs). The primary difference is players playing in the role they should be.

So you can have all of the pieces, except your 2nd line center is really a 3rd line center quality, and your 2nd D man should be a #4 and you're a bad team.
Then you replace those guys (these are just examples) and 1+1=10 because it allows everyone to slide into spots they can handle and suddenly your team is dictating the pace instead of chasing the game.

Hronek is one of those players, Mikheyev is one of those players, Kuzmenko is one of those players, Cole is one of those players, Soucy is one of those players. All of these players have allowed us to build a real team instead of a few diamonds amongst some overmatched NHLers and a handful of AHL fodder.

LOVED that when we saw a glimpse of petulant Miller that Tocchet held him accountable right away. I like MIller and believe in him and think that when he cools down he will go up to Tocchet and tell him he was right to do so.

There was like 13 minutes in the second that were sloppy and hard to watch, guys were moving the puck to a space in the defensive zone and nobody was taking initiative to be there first. It was like everyone was waiting for someone else to solve the problem.

That happens in hockey sometimes, the key is that you find it again and don't give up or sag your shoulders.

This team is different and is going to the playoffs this year barring an unfair run of injuries.

Really fun stuff.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

Friedman is a regular defenseman. He's quite quick, physical and seems to be more than capable with the puck.

Joshua looks so slow and needs to come out.

When's Blueger back?

 

[ChilliBilly]

Would you be willing to send out an unprotected 2024 1st rounder now? Dangerous game. But potentially a very high value piece.

Under 2 conditions

1 - Obviously we have to be cap compliant. so we have to send salary out with that pick, and it has to be someone who really is a top 4 coming back.

2. Not for another 4 - 6 weeks. Let make sure this team is legit before giving away assets. Lets make bloody sure we are on a playoff trajectory. The aim shouldn't be to squeak into the playoffs, but to be a dominant force.

In reality, you shouldn't think you are "all in" the 1st year you make the playoffs in 10 yrs. (the covid year doesn't really count).

There is a real value to having ELC's able to play to balance a team. Or are we planning in tanking in 3 - 4 years?

 

[jd22]

Under 2 conditions

1 - Obviously we have to be cap compliant. so we have to send salary out with that pick, and it has to be someone who really is a top 4 coming back.

2. Not for another 4 - 6 weeks. Let make sure this team is legit before giving away assets. Lets make bloody sure we are on a playoff trajectory. The aim shouldn't be to squeak into the playoffs, but to be a dominant force.

In reality, you shouldn't think you are "all in" the 1st year you make the playoffs in 10 yrs. (the covid year doesn't really count).

There is a real value to having ELC's able to play to balance a team. Or are we planning in tanking in 3 - 4 years?

1) Yes, of course, but unfortunately that drops the value of the first round pick. If this happens, it would be advisable for Allvin and co to pay to shed salary in a separate deal. If you're sending out a flexible premium asset, you had best be getting one in return, and I don't think an unprotected first + cap dump would.

2) Therein lies the rub. If the team does in fact seem like a real deal also to the rest of the league, the 'unprotected first' is nowhere near as valuable.

As for tanking - if the time to go for it is now (and with Miller and Demko's ages, I believe it is) - then I think the next 3-5 years are the window. Tanking won't come for 7 years if the Canucks really start to go for it now. Of course I see the value of ELCs contributing - despite lack of ELC, but AAV or less equivalent, PDG is an important and surplus value of the team. Critical. But if we end up picking towards the latter bits of the first round, what are the odds that player will be contributing on an ELC within the Canucks window?

 

[ChilliBilly]

1) Yes, of course, but unfortunately that drops the value of the first round pick. If this happens, it would be advisable for Allvin and co to pay to shed salary in a separate deal. If you're sending out a flexible premium asset, you had best be getting one in return, and I don't think an unprotected first + cap dump would.

2) Therein lies the rub. If the team does in fact seem like a real deal also to the rest of the league, the 'unprotected first' is nowhere near as valuable.

As for tanking - if the time to go for it is now (and with Miller and Demko's ages, I believe it is) - then I think the next 3-5 years are the window. Tanking won't come for 7 years if the Canucks really start to go for it now. Of course I see the value of ELCs contributing - despite lack of ELC, but AAV or less equivalent, PDG is an important and surplus value of the team. Critical. But if we end up picking towards the latter bits of the first round, what are the odds that player will be contributing on an ELC within the Canucks window?

With regards to

1 - Agreed. But everyone is trying to move out salary. The Canucks would love to move Garland for example, but what have we got to sweeten the deal? Retain salary, and add in an asset like Lekkerimaki? I really don't think we are ready to commit like that yet.

2 - Yep. But thats a real gamble. If we moved Lekkerimaki our 1st and Garland for a legit d man and then failed to make the playoffs I would be pissed.

The team is doing fine right now, hesitant to make any move that hamstrings us in the future.

After our last 10 years, I am really hesitant to wave my magic wand and go "poof, we are a contender for the next 5 years." I prefer some patience over making bonehead moves like GMJB did every summer to try and squeak into the playoffs.

 

[Hit the post]

The real Captain of the team (Miller):

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Got a break with Nashvilles goaltending.
But, every single goal was as a result of someone screening their goalie and going to the dirty area in front of the net. Tochett has the team playing a style that leads to more greasy goals.

 

[tantalum]

Sloppy start to the game for the canucks and then some slop in the middle. Outside of that very solid. I guess what I "liked" was that even in the slop there was some semblance of structure and they didn't get themselves completely torched and of course Demko did what he needed to do.

Really like how Kuz has played these last 4 or 5 games. He's going to the net but more importantly he's back checking hard and breaking up some plays on that back check. His defensive play may not ever be great but the effort is there now. That will gain him a lot of rope with Tocchet.

The PS...mostly Pettersson's fault IMO. He made the dangerous pass at the blueline. If Myers doesn't back off it is a 3-on-0 because I don't think he was getting to that puck. Also hilarious to see a NHL player fall on a PS. That's something I would do.

Lafferty I like. Hoglander I though with another good bottom 6 game. Beauvillier starting to play better and at some point he'll get a bunch of goals in a short period of time. Garland was decent but his shot selection is so Mason Raymond-esque.

Joshua...good lord he is not good so far this year. He's only in the lineup because of his size at this point. If the canucks upgrade the size on the wings Joshua will be hard pressed to have a NHL job playing like this.

Friedman...seems solid. Nothing flashy. Low event. Which is what you want from a 6/7 type guy.

Tocchet....finally a coach that makes players accountable. But he does it in a respectful way. He sends the message and then gives the player a chance to prove they heard the message. There is no real dog house Tocchet...or rather if a player finds himself in the dog house it will because of not incorporating the feedback into their game.

 

[bossram]

Pretty sloppy and choppy game until the third period. Canucks were lucky that Lankinen was juggling everything, but they still created enough looks to get the requisite amount of goal support for Demko.

I've been saying this a lot, but again, the key is that Canucks were competent defensively for most of the game and limited the high-danger chances essentially until the point it was 4-2 in the third and they got score-effected.

A marquee game from Suter - making solid defensive plays to keep the game in place until Petey could take over. That's what they need from him.

 

[MS]

I ask because I respect your opinion;

Are we a good team?

Maybe? I always like to wait 15-20 games before coming to any real strong opinions about where a team is at. The 15-16 Canucks had the same number of points after 10 games as the 10-11 Canucks.

This is obviously a very good start, but a good 9-game stretch could come from a variety of scenarios :

1) Great team playing OK
2) Good team playing as expected, results are sustainable.
3) OK team firing on all cylinders and catching some breaks.
4) Bad team getting really lucky and having a purple patch.

We're probably not (1) or (4) but where we sit on (2) vs. (3) it's hard to say. We do really need one more defender, and it would be great to have Blueger back as a better 3C than Suter.

The defensive play is really encouraging and probably the best we've seen since AV a decade ago. Just need to see a larger sample size. If we can limit teams to <20 ES shots most nights and limit odd-man rushes the way we have recently, we'll be a playoff team (assuming good health).

 

[petterdaddy]

Maybe? I always like to wait 15-20 games before coming to any real strong opinions about where a team is at. The 15-16 Canucks had the same number of points after 10 games as the 10-11 Canucks.

This is obviously a very good start, but a good 9-game stretch could come from a variety of scenarios :

1) Great team playing OK
2) Good team playing as expected, results are sustainable.
3) OK team firing on all cylinders and catching some breaks.
4) Bad team getting really lucky and having a purple patch.

We're probably not (1) or (4) but where we sit on (2) vs. (3) it's hard to say. We do really need one more defender, and it would be great to have Blueger back as a better 3C than Suter.

The defensive play is really encouraging and probably the best we've seen since AV a decade ago. Just need to see a larger sample size. If we can limit teams to <20 ES shots most nights and limit odd-man rushes the way we have recently, we'll be a playoff team (assuming good health).

Thanks for taking the time — I’m so ready to drink the Kool Aid again but fool me once etc

 

[Hit the post]

Maybe? I always like to wait 15-20 games before coming to any real strong opinions about where a team is at. The 15-16 Canucks had the same number of points after 10 games as the 10-11 Canucks.

This is obviously a very good start, but a good 9-game stretch could come from a variety of scenarios :

1) Great team playing OK
2) Good team playing as expected, results are sustainable.
3) OK team firing on all cylinders and catching some breaks.
4) Bad team getting really lucky and having a purple patch.

We're probably not (1) or (4) but where we sit on (2) vs. (3) it's hard to say. We do really need one more defender, and it would be great to have Blueger back as a better 3C than Suter.

The defensive play is really encouraging and probably the best we've seen since AV a decade ago. Just need to see a larger sample size. If we can limit teams to <20 ES shots most nights and limit odd-man rushes the way we have recently, we'll be a playoff team (assuming good health).

Amazing how having two credible defensemen in the top 4 can make it so you don't have to rely on your goalie to steal a game for you.

 

[krutovsdonut]

it was a decent monday night regular season home game. nice to see a rally from a poor start where that just means we played better system hockey and then scored opportunistically. the team really believes in tochett and co. right now. i hope that holds for a while.

while i think this team is competitive and sustainable playing this style, they need to build on it. it will not win every night and it won't beat every team even if they play it perfectly but they need to establish sa system identity to become a playoff team let alone a contender. preds could have had the game if they had converted some chances, but the system made it much harder for the preds.

individually i thought pretty much everyone but joshua played ok. joshua is either injured or in the dog house. beauvillier wasn't very good but gets points for trying hard and it is pretty hilarious how a little success adds to his confidence. there is a pretty good hockey player in there somewhere, but being an almost perfect tweener who wants to be top 6 holds him back. if he wanted to be a brandon tanev instead of a pettersson in his own head i think he'd turn into a solid player.

i'll also take a moment to appreciate cole's weird style. i never notice him until he takes possession and does one of his intercept and instant dump por pass lays, in which case you absolutely know it's him. almost nobody in the league does that anymore but he has made an art of deciding before he gets the puck where he is firing it and he generally does it in a way that gives the team some chance to recover possession. he's also got excellent curling weight skills

 

[MS]

Amazing how having two credible defensemen in the top 4 can make it so you don't have to rely on your goalie to steal a game for you.

It's not just Hronek. We've turned over fully half the blueline with reliable defensive players in Hronek/Cole/Soucy who can all play high-leverage and significant minutes.

October 2023
Hughes-Hronek
Cole-Friedman
Soucy-Myers

October 2022
Hughes-Schenn
OEL-Myers
Stillman-Burroughs

When you factor in the big steps forward that Hughes has made, you could argue pretty easily that we've substantially upgraded everywhere 1-6.

 

[racerjoe]

Maybe? I always like to wait 15-20 games before coming to any real strong opinions about where a team is at. The 15-16 Canucks had the same number of points after 10 games as the 10-11 Canucks.

This is obviously a very good start, but a good 9-game stretch could come from a variety of scenarios :

1) Great team playing OK
2) Good team playing as expected, results are sustainable.
3) OK team firing on all cylinders and catching some breaks.
4) Bad team getting really lucky and having a purple patch.

We're probably not (1) or (4) but where we sit on (2) vs. (3) it's hard to say. We do really need one more defender, and it would be great to have Blueger back as a better 3C than Suter.

The defensive play is really encouraging and probably the best we've seen since AV a decade ago. Just need to see a larger sample size. If we can limit teams to <20 ES shots most nights and limit odd-man rushes the way we have recently, we'll be a playoff team (assuming good health).

I wouldn't take 1 off the table just yet. I don't think its likely, but I think any time you have a Petey Hughes and Demko quality of player on your team it is a possibility, even if it is a low chance.

Really want one more true top 4 RHD, and bump Myers out. Have really like Friedman. Hopefully this is really what he is.