Confirmed with Link: Canucks announce proof of vaccination requirements for guests, employees

[Johnny Canucker]

I haven't been to a doctor in god knows how long...........however if i did and was unvaxxed and cost the tax payers a bunch of money i would think that a solution might be to force me to pay for whatever my hospital stay cost......

Nope. That’s not my question. Not about money. It’s about hospital beds, nurses , doctors, and therapeutics / oxygen.


If you’re unvaxxed and you need oxygen to breath or a therapeutic like remdesivir are you willing to stay home and potentially choke to death grasping for air so a vaccinated person can take your spot in the hospital / ICU.


That’s my question.

 

[bossram]

Sorry. If you're healthy, you shouldn't be scared shitless to walk out your door and you should be less scared to pass a virus along if you are healthy.

I have one shot. I was the only person average sized in the room, the only person in optimal health. Literally a fat woman walked in with her fat child and they were both drinking slurpees. I was surrounded by a bunch of people who neglect their bodies and had a huge smile on their face to be getting an unknown, unapproved drug that doesn't even fully work in which we have no clue what the long term effects of said drug will have, as long as people get to keep living their shitty unhealthy lives and get to keep going full Karen mode anytime someone practices their constitutional rights

Your child is more likely to die from obesity at some point than they are from covid. Keep pounding back those extra large slurpees.

I don't know what you have against obese people, but no one has a constitutional right to go to a hockey game (or restaurant, or casino, or whatever). I don't understand why anti-vax people keep spouting this point off.

Vaccination status is not a protected class under the Charter of Rights. So no, it is literally not "your right".

 

[iceburg]

Look, if you want to rant off nonsense, that is your right. But I'm not going to respect your "right" to spout falsehoods that have been repeatedly debunked in this thread.

1. I'm sorry you had Covid. But you are not "far more immune" than vaccinated individuals because medical studies have shown that the vaccines stimulate a greater immune response.

2. The vaccine is not "untested". It's undergone clinical trials of tens of thousands of people, in addition to the millions who have already received it. The Pfizer vaccine has received full authorization from the FDA.

3. Most cases, and certainly the vast majority of hospitalizations, are in the unvaccinated. This is not selection bias. If anything, given that a majority of the population has been vaccinated, if the vaccine was as ineffective as you said, the majority of sick individuals should be vaccinated people. This is not the case.

4. No one has a "right" to go to a Canucks game. No, it is not some slippery slope to "discrimination and tyranny" because our Charter of Rights actually outlaws discrimination on the grounds of gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, etc. I'm sorry you think vaccination status should be a protected class, but it is not. Kids in BC have to be vaccinated to go to school. When you came to Canada, did you think that was tyranny?

You can live a perfectly normal life here. Get vaccinated, put a mask on, and do whatever you want.

Couldn't have said it better. Well done.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

At the end of the day who cares about people’s opinions and this and that. f*** it.

these are the rules. If you don’t like them too f***ing bad. You can stay home and cry about it and pout. The rest of us will be at restaurants and events etc not missing you. Do us all a favour tho, cry more quietly. We are sick of hearing you.

 

[bossram]

i am less tolerant of intolerant people than i am of people i disagree with (provided i believe the person has an honest disagreement).

It's not "honest" disagreement when one side continues to spout off false, easily refutable talking points, yet state them as fact.

 

[tantalum]

Majority of deaths are happening in people with pre-exisisting health conditions, this isn't a secret. If you're healthy you still have to worry, sure, but you have to worry about many things every day...you know like crossing the street. climbing a stool, inhaling gases and pollution, etc.

Just to note when someone says "majority of death are happening in people with pre-existing conditions" they are really just saying "these people died earlier than they normally would have and I don't really care." The majority of which could have been prevented by following easy, common sense, not at all infringing on personal rights and liberty actions.

Let me make this clear. In the US, since Covid began there have been over 600,000 EXCESS deaths. That is deaths that normally would not have occurred in that time frame (i.e. in a calendar year the US expects about 2.4 million deaths for all causes of death...there were 3 million instead. One new major disease in town. Now the #3 cause of death). Yes they may be old. They may have heart disease. But they would have still been alive.

Indeed you can get hurt or killed crossing the street. Except you look both ways to minimize that. Yes you could die climbing on a stool...that's why you don't climb on a stool and instead use a ladder. Etc. Nor does it mean other bad things aren't happening in the world. But let me tell you, wearing a damn mask, getting a vaccine etc so you don't hurt others is a hell of a lot easier than solving world hunger and something that is in each person's actual control. The easy controls people are asked to do are the equivalent of looking both ways and getting a ladder. Easily done things that have HUGE impact on risk. In this case not just personal risk but the risk for your entire community! That includes getting vaccinated. And yes, just as some people cannot use ladders some people are unable to get a vaccine...and that's precisely why those that can need to do so.

So I applaud the businesses that are putting their foot down and demanding people do so. It's about f***ing time.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I have plenty of very intelligent and successful friends who do not wish to get vaccinated

I think the bold and underlined are mutually exclusive.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Great to see Vancouver doing this, by the way. Hope a bunch more teams follow suit.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

The erosion of our rights are celebrated with thunderous applause.

I was unaware Canada had a right for people to go see a hockey game without a vaccine. The Constitution of Canada sounds pretty awesome!

 

[IslandBeast]

I don't know what you have against obese people, but no one has a constitutional right to go to a hockey game (or restaurant, or casino, or whatever). I don't understand why anti-vax people keep spouting this point off.

Vaccination status is not a protected class under the Charter of Rights. So no, it is literally not "your right".

It's not even law to carry your ID around but now we need Vaccine passports

You love submitting to authority, you're a yes man if you don't question any of this

I have to get vaccinated because a large portion of people are fat or out of shape. I'm sitting waiting for my needle watching a bunch of slobs mope around eating their mcdonalds and drinking their beer whilst telling me to get my vax. Lol

If you're healthy, you're generally safe...and when I say safe I don't mean 100%, I just mean like 99.99%

Why no health advice from our superiors? Vitamin D, C, Zinc, eat healthy and get sunlight? Why is this not being crammed down peoples throats? There are studies that say you are safer from covid if these nutrient/vitamin levels are optimal

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

How can you call this a global pandemic when much worse things are happening. Why is 9 million starvation deaths not a pandemic? Explain this to me, please. Why is 3 million children dying of hunger not more important than this?

Literally the whole canucks team got covid, came back and banged off multiple wins in a row. You've found a few athletes who claim they have ever lasting effects.. Where is the CT scan from Jayson Tatum? His follow up? Or are we just taking his word that covid causes long lating effects?

Majority of deaths are happening in people with pre-exisisting health conditions, this isn't a secret. If you're healthy you still have to worry, sure, but you have to worry about many things every day...you know like crossing the street. climbing a stool, inhaling gases and pollution, etc.

When did I say one was more important than the other? Of course anyone would love to snap their figures and eradicate hunger. Unfortunately, a lot of us are background players in the major crises affecting the world right now, and with COVID-19, we can actually do our part by getting vaccinated and helping curb this major issue. In a moral and just world, we would have eradicated world hunger long ago, but unfortunately capitalism makes that unlikely.

Are you asking me to provide you with the private medical information of another person? Do you think this is some sort of trump card you're playing? Also insinuating that professional athletes might be part of some conspiracy to get people to believe in COVID makes you sound like a lunatic. My point was not that people cannot recover, it was that your statement that anyone who takes care of themselves doesn't have to worry about COVID is patently ridiculous.

Of course there are risks to being in a society. But we take reasonable precautions when we know how to minimize the risk in a certain situation. Much like when there is a global pandemic with a highly transmissible virus. If you want to argue that the current goal is misplaced, then I have time for that. We should be flooding the areas where variants are breeding with vaccines to minimize the probability of mutation, rather than ensuring the western world is COVID-free and calling it a day

 

[krutovsdonut]

Vaccines are not controlling Delta. Look at Israel. I don't know how it is in NA right now, but several, if not all, countries in Europe now basically only got Delta.

I cannot comment on the second point. I have not seen that argument being made anywhere (so not saying it is wrong). However, the amount of Delta virus found in vaccinated people seems to be the same, some even say higher, than for the unvaccinated. Not sure why a virus in a fully vaccinated population would not mutate faster to get around the vaccine if everyone where vaccinated? In any case even if you are right you are only changing the probabilities of a new mutation only so much as long as kids are not vaccinated and most of the developing world stays unvaccinated. Canada would then be safer if Canada gave its vaccines for the younger part of the population to 3rd world countries.

What seems to be clear is that natural immunity is longer lasting than vaccine immunity (strictly speaking not immunity, but protection). In Norway the health authorities are now suggesting that young vaccinated people might benefit from being infected by Delta as it might make them better protected against new future mutations. That is not my argument - that is the official line from the "Norwegian CDC".

ok, i am not an expert (as opposed to maybe knowing someone), and most of what you say seems right to me but

1. my understanding is that when you adjust for proportion of population vaccinated and age and other factors, the israeli numbers are not as scary. you are many times more likely to end up in hospital with delta if you are unvaccinated there as opposed to someone the same age and health as you who is vaccinated. not to say they are not scary though. what israel shows is that delta can cause seriously high caseloads within vaccinated populations which even at very low odds of complications still produces lots of hospitalizations.

2. my understanding is that experts right now are not just concerned about further variants that are successful because they are more contagious (like delta) but also the risk of variants emerging during delta that defeat vaccine immunity which is going to potentially have more serious outcomes for vaccinated populations. thus they are worried about partially vaccinated countries in the west incubating a new dangerous and highly contagious variant for vaccinated people.

3. letting kids acquire natural immunity from infections was a working theory on how to deal with kids before delta. it only does not make sense now because kids are spreading it to adults. if you can prevent that, natural immunity is a good idea.

 

[SomeSortOfHockey]

Look, if you want to rant off nonsense, that is your right. But I'm not going to respect your "right" to spout falsehoods that have been repeatedly debunked in this thread.

1. I'm sorry you had Covid. But you are not "far more immune" than vaccinated individuals because medical studies have shown that the vaccines stimulate a greater immune response.

2. The vaccine is not "untested". It's undergone clinical trials of tens of thousands of people, in addition to the millions who have already received it. The Pfizer vaccine has received full authorization from the FDA.

3. Most cases, and certainly the vast majority of hospitalizations, are in the unvaccinated. This is not selection bias. If anything, given that a majority of the population has been vaccinated, if the vaccine was as ineffective as you said, the majority of sick individuals should be vaccinated people. This is not the case.

4. No one has a "right" to go to a Canucks game. No, it is not some slippery slope to "discrimination and tyranny" because our Charter of Rights actually outlaws discrimination on the grounds of gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, etc. I'm sorry you think vaccination status should be a protected class, but it is not. Kids in BC have to be vaccinated to go to school. When you came to Canada, did you think that was tyranny?

You can live a perfectly normal life here. Get vaccinated, put a mask on, and do whatever you want.

Me and you obviously live in very different worlds. Infact we do. I am in central Europe you are in Canada. I am not going to engage with someone who is contributing to what is happening and to someone spreading information where the goal is not to inform. 1 and 2 are simply false. Number 3 us selection bias. We know the prevalence of the delta strain and its effective with current vaccines. The numbers being pushed in Canada are not possible. The only logical answer is selection bias because of less symptomic cases and less testing of the majority vaccinated population. Current vaccines are less then 50% effective at preventing infection with current prelevant covid strains, and that number may actually be very optimistic as talk is maybe only 20 to 30 percent.

As for 4. I have heard this before. Thats why I had to run accross a militarized border in the 80s. I think we call this double think when you believe two contradictory positions.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

This thread shows how humanity continues to both surprise and disappoint simultaneously.

 

[rypper]

It's very interesting to me how people who are double vaccinated seem to know next to nobody who's had serious complications from the vaccine, but those who are against the vaccine, seem to know handfuls of them.

Anyway bravo to CSE for this. It'll be nice to get back to some form of normal.

 

[krutovsdonut]

It's not "honest" disagreement when one side continues to spout off false, easily refutable talking points, yet state them as fact.

well that's you reading minds.

i try to distinguish between an honest mistaken belief and a dishonest mistaken belief, but i am not psychic and so i try to give the benefit of the doubt initially.

i find most of the time someone spouting talking points doesn't fully understand them and/or has not thought them through. that applies to both sides of the debate.

 

[604]

@604, this is what I mean. No level of argumentation or understanding or reasoning will convince anti-vaxxers.

Look at the line of logic from @VancouverJagger, someone who is not even a true anti-vaxxer. This is basically what you're dealing with. Full authorization or legal liability isn't really going to convince anyone who hasn't already been convinced.

It'll convince some but not all.

To be fair, I'm struggling with the idea of vaccinating my 9 year-old.

I'm pretty sure I got my 12 year old vaxed just so we can travel, play sports, and face less restrictions. I will likely do the same for my youngest in a month or two when it becomes necessary for her (so she can play sports and take part in everyday life).

That being said, the stats show, despite being exposed to tons of kids through school and sports, in BC kids under 12 make up less than 1% of ICU cases and less than 1% of deaths. Under 10 is 5% of the total cases despite being ~ 10% of the total population and, again, likely have more exposures than most. Kids simply are not as vulnerable as adults and also do not spread the virus as readily as adults.

The benefits to having my kids vaxed is mostly based on what is being taken away from them by being vaxed more than the health benefits to them or society. When I look at the risk vs reward for children, I consider their risk of potential long-term negative affects of the vaccines more consequential and the benefits to be significantly less than an average adult.

This is where I struggle with the argument that we need to enforce vaxination across the board for anyone eligible. It shouldn't be blanket as we know the virus affects different populations in different ways.

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

It's not even law to carry your ID around but now we need Vaccine passports

You love submitting to authority, you're a yes man if you don't question any of this

I have to get vaccinated because a large portion of people are fat or out of shape. I'm sitting waiting for my needle watching a bunch of slobs mope around eating their mcdonalds and drinking their beer whilst telling me to get my vax. Lol

If you're healthy, you're generally safe...and when I say safe I don't mean 100%, I just mean like 99.99%

Why no health advice from our superiors? Vitamin D, C, Zinc, eat healthy and get sunlight? Why is this not being crammed down peoples throats? There are studies that say you are safer from covid if these nutrient/vitamin levels are optimal

What part of "obesity is not contagious" is not getting through your skull?

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I totally agree that people who have had Covid and have had anti-body tests that show them at high levels are getting run around a bit here. I'm sure it's just a financial decision as it's easier to vax everyone than have them take anti-body tests have another system for those that fall into this category, but I completely understand why people in this category aren't rushing out to get a vaccine that they have no need for.

Multiple Covid infections can and do happen. Arguing you don't need a vaccine because you already had Covid is the same idiocy that probably lead to those people getting Covid in the first place.

Those people on average infected at least 2 others as well, who in turn infected at least two others.

Not getting a vaccine shows that you're a selfish asshole who doesn't care if your friends or family die gasping for air.

 

[IslandBeast]

When did I say one was more important than the other? Of course anyone would love to snap their figures and eradicate hunger. Unfortunately, a lot of us are background players in the major crises affecting the world right now, and with COVID-19, we can actually do our part by getting vaccinated and helping curb this major issue. In a moral and just world, we would have eradicated world hunger long ago, but unfortunately capitalism makes that unlikely.

Are you asking me to provide you with the private medical information of another person? Do you think this is some sort of trump card you're playing? Also insinuating that professional athletes might be part of some conspiracy to get people to believe in COVID makes you sound like a lunatic. My point was not that people cannot recover, it was that your statement that anyone who takes care of themselves doesn't have to worry about COVID is patently ridiculous.

Of course there are risks to being in a society. But we take reasonable precautions when we know how to minimize the risk in a certain situation. Much like when there is a global pandemic with a highly transmissible virus. If you want to argue that the current goal is misplaced, then I have time for that. We should be flooding the areas where variants are breeding with vaccines to minimize the probability of mutation, rather than ensuring the western world is COVID-free and calling it a day

So you will sit here with the rest of the world and call this a pandemic? Meanwhile 3 million children dying of hunger is not considered a pandemic. Doesn't that make you feel disgusting inside?

I never said you are 100% safe if you are healthy, jesus christ. If more people were healthy, we wouldn't need major lockdowns which are crushing our economy, our research, our homelessness, our depression and suicide, our drug use, our crime, and worldwide food shortages.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I am not anti vax. I have had covid. I have had antibody tests and in all probability am by far more immune then most people who have taken the vaccines. I am not about to take a untested vaccine for no reason other then that that I am being forced I to it so as to avoid blatant discrimination. This ignores the fact that current strains which now comprise almost all cases spread via vaccinated people nearly as efficiently as via those unvaccinated who have not had covid yet. Tyrany and basic discrimination is tyrany and basic discrimination. And before someone says it I am tired of propoganda (not even talking about large scale censorship) that most cases are un vaccinated folks. This is simply selection bias at best. There are plenty of up to date studies from all around the world, herd immunity isbimpossible and current vaccines are not effective in stopping spread of current dominant strains. You want to talk about at risk folks and their current at the moment reduced chance of symptomic cases? Go ahead. But it has nothing to do with me. I am not at risk. I have natural immunity as good or better then most who haven't had covid.

Lastly simple rights and freedoms have value as well. I was once a refugee escaping a tyranicle government. I know what can be lost. I know the importance if respecting rights and freedoms. Of maintaining some level of self autonomy. I dont think people realize what they allowed them sel es to be dragged into and for what? If only there was a reason but there isn't.

Anyways as I see this as us entering one of the darker periods of humanity (there is only one way this goes now) all I can do is to simply forget about anyone pushing this or supporting this. This includes the Canucks franchise. I won't even say what historical entities I equate them to.

In 50 years when some of you are old and frail, I no longer here, remember where it all started because you will be dealing with the ramifications easily that long. If only it made sense.

And just to end this off I consider my self today lucky I am not trapped in Canada right now and can still continue to live a pretty normal life. Never thought I would be saying this say 30 years ago.

i respect your opinion and well said. there do seem to be studies suggesting that a vaccination increases the immunity of people who have had covid, but i suspect the real reason for forcing people who have had covid to get vaccinated is certainty, because otherwise they will have to do an individual antibody assessment to determine immunity which is expensive and not nearly as foolproof as a vaccination.

this might be a vulnerability to the current order.

 

[racerjoe]

That wouldn't be the analogy. If seatbelt and airbags where better one could argue increasing the speed limits would make sense. It is a risk/benefit kind of thing.

Kind of a Catch-22 with the vaccines.

a) If they are working well - then they are working well so why would anyone care if someone else isn't vaccinated? Let us forget that they are not sterilising so that you are not safe just because someone next to you are vaccinated - someone that is then, apparently, less likely to have symptoms and therefore arguably more likely to infect you without knowing it.

b) If they aren't working why force people to take them?

I don't know at what point would it not be an argument? If the vaccines are 50% effective you might say you got reason to force people to take them. If the vaccines where sterilising at 50% as well I would have entertained that argument, but since they are not it doesn't really work.

Will be interesting to see how one deals with the next big mutation. If current vaccines got 0% effectiveness against that mutation would one accept that the unvaccinated and the ones vaccinated with this generation of vaccines are treated equally?

It’s still the same analogy… why can’t I drive as fast as I want?

B) To get the desired affect a certain portion of the population must be vaccinated…

Also no one is forcing you to do anything. You also don’t have to go to large events, restaurants, gyms and so on…

 

[Petey O]

It’s still the same analogy… why can’t I drive as fast as I want?

B) To get the desired affect a certain portion of the population must be vaccinated…

Also no one is forcing you to do anything. You also don’t have to go to large events, restaurants, gyms and so on…

Driving fast endangers those who drive the speed limit.

Does not getting vaccinated endanger those who are vaccinated?

If so, what's the point of the vaccines in the first place other than billions of dollars to big pharma?

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

So you will sit here with the rest of the world and call this a pandemic? Meanwhile 3 million children dying of hunger is not considered a pandemic. Doesn't that make you feel disgusting inside?

I never said you are 100% safe if you are healthy, jesus christ. If more people were healthy, we wouldn't need major lockdowns which are crushing our economy, our research, our homelessness, our depression and suicide, our drug use, our crime, and worldwide food shortages.

So you're just not engaging with a single thing I'm saying hey? It's obvious you have an agenda, just make it less idiotic. Doesn't it make you feel disgusting inside to know that by spreading false information and not vaccinating yourself against this disease, you are both influencing the internet illiterate and making yourself a more likely vector of transmission for the virus? Even if you are not concerned about your own safety, are you so self-centered that you wouldn't try to protect others around you by minimizing the likelihood that you might pass on a virus that could seriously harm them?

Most of what you're saying is just a DailyWire/Breitbart article copy and pasted, embarrassing attempt. If you're gonna be an anti-vaxx jackass, at least be entertaining

 

[tantalum]

That being said, the stats show, despite being exposed to tons of kids through school and sports, in BC kids under 12 make up less than 1% of ICU cases and less than 1% of deaths. Under 10 is 5% of the total cases despite being ~ 10% of the total population and, again, likely have more exposures than most. Kids simply are not as vulnerable as adults and also do not spread the virus as readily as adults.

But that's not really the numbers you need to look at. You need to look at how many kids are normally taking up beds in the ICU compared to how many are now (and/or how many people are normally in ICU and compare to now). The answer is likely a hell of a lot more. It's liek the argument with people saying the mortality rate is low. Yes it might be low (not as low as those people think but lowish), but that is only one piece to the puzzle. The other piece is the infectiousness/spread. A disease that kills 50% of those infected but can only manage to infect 1,000 people is not nearly as big of a public threat as the one with a mortality rate of 0.1 % that manages to infect 50 million. One kills 500 and the other 50,000. I'm not sure BC numbers but there are several states that are out of ICU beds for adults and kids. Texas for example has basically said if your kid needs a bed, you have to wait for another kid to die. They have also sent patients to hospitals as far away an Minnesota.

And this won't be just a government thing. A popular venue in these parts owned by the same folks who own Walmart (capitalists through and through) now demands proof of vaccination (both shots if Pfizer or Moderna) or negative test for entry for the remainder of their show season. Owners of venues where a large collection of people will be close together for a few hours will require it. Being on the side of public safety is a far better business decision.