Post-Game Talk: Canucks 5, Penguins 2 - Looks Like I Picked The Wrong Week to Quit Drinking

[Gurglesons]

That stat was blown up btw recently, too. I think it was like last year 4 teams weren't in the playoffs and 3 the year before. The stats are around 72-77%. So there is wiggle room there. Let's not act like that stat is an end all stat.

But yes- this team, as is, should at least be in the top 16. That's putting it lightly. We knew they needed to fix things, but we didn't know the team focus would be this piss poor.

I agree, but with the competiveness of the division this year with the improvement of Carolina, Philly, and New Jersey losing games like tonight needs to stop happening.

I’ll definitely succumb to your often repeated view point that these kind of stretches can build contenders though. This team viewed Daley, Bonino and Kuni as passengers and while I agree to a degree I also think this quarter of the season could cost us a playoff spot if players like Sid and Letang don’t improve until January.

 

[deakka]

1 point before Rangers who has 1 game in hand and 3 up on Boston, Ottawa and Carolina who all have THREE games in hand...
we will pretty soon be on the outside looking in if they win some of their games in hand.

I guess we will know Thursday if Malkin will be out for a longer period of time, i think thats when he was to be avaluated.
IF it is longer term, i dont see how JR can sitt patiently any longer. If hes looking for another C he might have to speed things up and overpay. And i dont really care, as long as our 1st is lottery protected.

 

[billybudd]

After a quarter of a season, the Pens look considerably slower than they did last year and I'm not just talking about the fourth line. If the Pens aren't out-quicking the other team, all they really are is a hockey club that's easy to mark because they don't have a lot of muscle and their reach isn't great.

But while I'm on the subject of the fourth line, somebody tell Kuhnhackl it's not too much to expect that he pay attention during his 8 minutes a night. He missed a(n obvious and easy) tap-in while he was daydreaming with his stick off the ice.

 

[ColePens]

I agree, but with the competiveness of the division this year with the improvement of Carolina, Philly, and New Jersey losing games like tonight needs to stop happening.

I’ll definitely succumb to your often repeated view point that these kind of stretches can build contenders though. This team viewed Daley, Bonino and Kuni as passengers and while I agree to a degree I also think this quarter of the season could cost us a playoff spot if players like Sid and Letang don’t improve until January.

But i'll throw this at you. We all agreed the roster needed fixed since we were letting those guys go. So we all agreed. We disagreed on when. But I think we also all agreed it would be the #1 issue this season, especially when Cullen left us. That was an "Oh crap" moment.

But realistically it's #3 on my list of issues. I thought the team would come out semi-flat, but I didn't expect this. There is no way any of us expected that. The really tough answer is how the hell can you fix the team's focus? Sully has skated them hard. The guys all preach they need to focus and start games with attention to details. They all admit after they can't come out that flat. But why can't they change it? It's the million dollar answer right now if anyone has that secret.

Should Sully get tougher? Possibly could lose the team. Should Sully loosen up? Then we crack into that accountability we built. Should we look to make roster adjustments to hopefully change the culture? Only if the right move is there, IMO. We are at a really interesting crossroads here and I agree if they don't start figuring it out, a playoff spot will absolutely be an issue.

 

[EightyOne]

I liked how we played. Especially without Geno. The Nucks were just luckier. Oh well, good game.

NOTHING to do with puck luck in these losses.

How many of those are at EV strength though?

I'd still take him up here.

5v5 is a weakness for sure. So, we better make the PP count when we get them eh?

 

[Pancakes]

After a quarter of a season, the Pens look considerably slower than they did last year and I'm not just talking about the fourth line. If the Pens aren't out-quicking the other team, all they really are is a hockey club that's easy to mark because they don't have a lot of muscle and their reach isn't great.

But while I'm on the subject of the fourth line, somebody tell Kuhnhackl it's not too much to expect that he pay attention during his 8 minutes a night. He missed a(n obvious and easy) tap-in while he was daydreaming with his stick off the ice.

Yes, we suddenly look like the Bylsma era Pens again. No center depth and slow.

I don't quite understand that because on paper the speed is there. It's just.....not on the ice. Fatigue? Maybe.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Possible, but Arizona's not exactly tearing things up with Tocchet at the helm right now. So far there's about as much evidence that we're missing Tocchet as there is that we're missing Botterill. I'd like to see what roster changes could do for the team before I start giving those ideas much weight.

Some coaches are great assistants and terrible coaches, so whatever we see in Arizona, there was never going to be any coach that was going to fix that mess right away anyway, they are playing well, but what Tocchet brought was the perfect go-between with Sullivan, him and the players. It looks like Recchi isn't as good as Tocchet, not a diss to Recchi, just that Tocchet was probably better at it doing it for so long.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Well, if it was Recchi who thought it was a great idea to get Kuhn out there with the 2nd and/or 3rd lines and on the PP while you're down 2 in the 3rd, he needs to be punted into the sun or go be a coach on Wilkes's bench to earn his chops. Have a feelin he loves Kuhn and wants to see him succeed just based off the clip on the latest ITR.

 

[mpp9]

After a quarter of a season, the Pens look considerably slower than they did last year and I'm not just talking about the fourth line. If the Pens aren't out-quicking the other team, all they really are is a hockey club that's easy to mark because they don't have a lot of muscle and their reach isn't great.

But while I'm on the subject of the fourth line, somebody tell Kuhnhackl it's not too much to expect that he pay attention during his 8 minutes a night. He missed a(n obvious and easy) tap-in while he was daydreaming with his stick off the ice.

Losing Daley hurts a little bit in terms of team speed. He’d skate the puck out pretty regularly when he was on.

I don’t see a ton of speed lost in Kunitz and Bonino. And as good as Cullen was, I wouldn’t say it’s his speed we miss.

Kuhn and Reaves makes the 4th line worthless.

But I just think the way we played in 15-16 and parts of last year, it’s very difficult to replicate in November. It’s not like Sid, Guentzel, Sheary, Rust, Kessel all became worse skaters. It’ll come around.

If it were up to me. Kuhn is waived. Reaves sits for games against faster teams. Call up a WBS guy who can actually finish to play in the bottom six. And if there’s not much out there at center, I’d be all over Evander Kane at the deadline. Another boost of speed and scoring ability.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Losing Daley hurts a little bit in terms of team speed. He’d skate the puck out pretty regularly when he was on.

I don’t see a ton of speed lost in Kunitz and Bonino. And as good as Cullen was, I wouldn’t say it’s his speed we miss.

Kuhn and Reaves makes the 4th line worthless.

But I just think the way we played in 15-16 and parts of last year, it’s very difficult to replicate in November. It’s not like Sid, Guentzel, Sheary, Rust, Kessel all became worse skaters. It’ll come around.

If it were up to me. Kuhn is waived. Reaves sits for games against faster teams. Call up a WBS guy who can actually finish to play in the bottom six. And if there’s not much out there at center, I’d be all over Evander Kane at the deadline. Another boost of speed and scoring ability.

I think the McKegg love affair needs to end as well. Waiving Kuhnhackl (better to just trade him I think, there is a team out there that will send the Pens a very late pick for him, why not?). I'd call up DiPauli for that 4th line LW spot, keep Archibald in over Reaves in games we need more speed and keep Rowney at 4C.

Jettison Hagelin to whatever team that will take him, speed or not, that guy has no finish left in him on the Pens. I'd rather see ZAR up for the LW. I wonder if there is a way to get Dales back, his cap hit is 3.167 for 2 more years after this one. Would you send Cole for him and hope the Wings like the fact that he's a hometown boy and UFA so they can negotiate if they want or walk away? Or do we not lose Cole (which I don't think anyone here wants, me included) and hope the defense wakes up with Letang.

 

[End of Line]

Boeser is turning into a Penguin killer.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

I'm not sure why everyone is saying Sprong is the answer. He hasn't been playing well lately in the AHL.

The players simply aren't motivated. Maybe they think they can flip a switch come playoff time but if they don't smarten up soon they won't even make the playoffs.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Boeser is turning into a Penguin killer.

Boeser is just a killer in general. That guy's shot is like Sprong's, but his team isn't afraid to actually play him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm not sure why everyone is saying Sprong is the answer. He hasn't been playing well lately in the AHL.

The players simply aren't motivated. Maybe they think they can flip a switch come playoff time but if they don't smarten up soon they won't even make the playoffs.

Sprong might not be playing his best, but neither was Jarry and he got called up, the Pens have done that before, regardless of playing well or not, they'll call up a guy that fills a role. So while Sprong might be playing a little poorly right now, he could also come up, see his chance to show what he can do at the NHL level.

Sprong to me screams like a kid that wants to show what he can do, but if nothing comes from it, kind of just gets bored. Which isn't a good thing, but he's also the most dynamic winger prospect we have in the system. So there's no telling how he would respond. But this is also a team that rewards terrible play with top 6 minutes (Kuhnhackl) and players that get their own way all the time (Letang). So I say call the kid up. See how it works.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

This team is bad. Particularly Sid, Letang and everyone involved with playing/coaching the special teams units.

Probably gonna need another one of those paradigm-shift type of moves mid-season from JR in order to shock this team back to life. Swapping a WBS guy in here and there likely isn't gonna be enough. And that's just personnel-wise... The coaching, particularly with regard to the PP, PK, and defensive structure has a ton--A TON of work to do.

 

[The Old Master]

yep! the two players that are hurting this team the most, don't play in the bottom six. it's sid and letang. I can some how understand tanger (missing all that time) but sid???? i'm at a loss. I never thought I would ever see sid play this way, unless he had his legs cut off or something like that. he has always given 110% every day till this yr. and I have no idea how to fix it.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Sid's gone through these listless slumps before. This one just happens to have lasted a month and a half.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Kuhnhackl gets a lot of flak around here for not being able to produce, and given our scoring problems recently that's definitely warranted, but he's on the 4th line. The guy centering our 3rd line produced at a worse pace than Kuhn over the last 2 years, and this season has 1 more point while averaging 5 more minutes of TOI/G with much better players.

 

[The Old Master]

Sid's gone through these listless slumps before. This one just happens to have lasted a month and a half.

ya, but never more than a game or 2 at the most
edit; maybe he needs to sit a game.....it would send a message to the whole team.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This team is bad. Particularly Sid, Letang and everyone involved with playing/coaching the special teams units.

Probably gonna need another one of those paradigm-shift type of moves mid-season from JR in order to shock this team back to life. Swapping a WBS guy in here and there likely isn't gonna be enough. And that's just personnel-wise... The coaching, particularly with regard to the PP, PK, and defensive structure has a ton--A TON of work to do.

It's all a season long process though. We can't just say well, bringing up a WBS kid or two won't fix the problems, because that's not true. It's one of the steps that needs to happen.

You bring up Sprong, and later Di Pauli, that adds a mixture of hunger, speed, goal scoring and tenacity. Then you mix in a big trade or two, and the roster looks completely different.

People just keep wanting that fast and easy solution when it's going to take all season long to find the kind of roster to do what we haven't seen in almost 35 years.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

ya, but never more than a game or 2 at the most
edit; maybe he needs to sit a game.....it would send a message to the whole team.

Sid's definitely gone for extended periods of time where he seems utterly checked out or giving a fraction of the effort he normally gives. It's been much longer than a game or two, but this 25ish game stretch for Sid is definitely the worst run of his career.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

It's all a season long process though. We can't just say well, bringing up a WBS kid or two won't fix the problems, because that's not true. It's one of the steps that needs to happen.

You bring up Sprong, and later Di Pauli, that adds a mixture of hunger, speed, goal scoring and tenacity. Then you mix in a big trade or two, and the roster looks completely different.

People just keep wanting that fast and easy solution when it's going to take all season long to find the kind of roster to do what we haven't seen in almost 40 years.

I'm not even concerned with the three-peat. I just want to look like a competitive hockey team, and make the playoffs. This team doesn't look like either of those right now.

I didn't mean to imply there's nothing to be done in WBS, I just meant that the people clamoring to swap out Kuhn and Reaves for X and Y in WBS--I don't think that's going to do much of anything right now. I agree with you that it's a process and it's not going to be one move, but several of differing degrees of magnitude that right this ship. I just meant that the solution isn't solely in WBS. Gonna need to fix the way this team plays (coaching), maybe find some fresh/hungry legs in WBS and through a trade, and we need to get our big guns playing like they're capable of again. It's not just a one and done deal--the problems go a lot deeper than struggling through the first 25% of the season. We're seeing the same issues with defensive play that we've seen going back through last season for example.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm not even concerned with the three-peat. I just want to look like a competitive hockey team, and make the playoffs. This team doesn't look like either of those right now.

I didn't mean to imply there's nothing to be done in WBS, I just meant that the people clamoring to swap out Kuhn and Reaves for X and Y in WBS--I don't think that's going to do much of anything right now. I agree with you that it's a process and it's not going to be one move, but several of differing degrees of magnitude that right this ship. I just meant that the solution isn't solely in WBS. Gonna need to fix the way this team plays (coaching), maybe find some fresh/hungry legs in WBS and through a trade, and we need to get our big guns playing like they're capable of again. It's not just a one and done deal--the problems go a lot deeper than struggling through the first 25% of the season. We're seeing the same issues with defensive play that we've seen going back through last season for example.

From what Mackey said, JR and Sullivan both want Reaves in the lineup, so people need to accept it. Again, hate the league for not protecting their stars, not the GM for taking the only option left available to him.

But ya, each step is part of this year long process of trying to find the perfect mix. You have to mill your farm first before making any big moves, that is simply due diligence.

JR has an almost impossible task ahead of him, one that no GM has been able to figure out in 35 years. I think people would do well to keep that in mind.

However, he's certainly not one to sit on his hands, so be prepared for a trade or two that may make people unhappy.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I don't expect JR to stand pat either. December is usually when he starts to really put his nose to the grindstone too, so I'd expect some changes over the next few weeks or months. Let's just hope the moves work again, and he doesn't swing for the fences and strike out.

 

[billybudd]

The guy centering our 3rd line produced at a worse pace than Kuhn over the last 2 years

This gave me the idea of checking on what Scott Wilson's up to. He's got no points and is a minus 3 with only 12 (!) shots on the season. I don't know what I expected from him in a Red Wings uniform, but it certainly wasn't that level of futility.