Post-Game Talk: Canucks 5, Penguins 2 - Looks Like I Picked The Wrong Week to Quit Drinking

[Dipsy Doodle]

“The answers are in that dressing room,” coach Mike Sullivan said.

Penguins penalty kill fails again in loss to Canucks

Maybe not right now, Mike. Maybe a little fresh blood would help kickstart the team and shake a roster that's very sure of their spots out of their funk, and accomplish more than a bag skate for a team that looked tired to begin with.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

“The answers are in that dressing room,” coach Mike Sullivan said.

Penguins penalty kill fails again in loss to Canucks

Maybe not right now, Mike. Maybe a little fresh blood would help kickstart the team and shake a roster that's very sure of their spots out of their funk, and accomplish more than a bag skate for a team that looked tired to begin with.

Maybe Tocchet meant more to that coaching staff than we, the fans, gave him credit for.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Maybe Tocchet meant more to that coaching staff than we, the fans, gave him credit for.

We, the fans, also hated Tocchet as the reason why Willie Desjardins didn't come to the Pens because he was forced on to whichever coaching staff we had and responsible for the powerplay woes.

We now see that Tocchet was the guy that kept the team on an even keel and not lose their collective shit. Recchi is probably a good assistant coach, but not in the way Tocchet ever was.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

- Kind of disappointed Guentzel didn't look good at pivot. First time there in quite awhile, save that game last season, so we'll see what happens.

- I don't get how you almost scratch a guy, then suddenly put him on the second line and second PP to um... spark the team?

Dude, he is the only fwd on the team that has ZERO ****ing goals because he is a coal miner. It's bizarro world.

Adam's ghost please stop haunting me. Oh angry spirit, what must I do to make you go away?

- Mackey said in his chat he thinks Sprong will be up very soon. I mean, if I offer up a Coffee Crisp to appease the angry ghoul... maybe it could happen?

I can't quite tell for certain, and maybe it's because I'm slow on the uptake, but I'm starting to get the feeling you don't like Kuhnhackl very much. Apologies if I'm dead wrong.

 

[Gurglesons]

These games are not unimportant but it's still pretty damn early in the season guys. I think some minor moves need to be made and before the deadline (as a statement more or less) and the staff needs to regroup and study some film a bit / see how teams have adjusted big-picture-wise. Probably already have started doing that but it can take time.

Goal should be to get competitive again and get consistent, win or lose. We've all seen it over and over... teams red hot in October / November disappear by mid-season and miss the playoffs, and vice-versa. Teams wallowing in mediocrity / not able to win consistently early end up improving by mid-season and then hit their stride. That's what we have to hope for but it's going to be a slog after two long summers.

Temper expectations and lets hope JR can bring in some fresher legs and maybe give that Spronginator a try too. I think we'll be OK barring long-term injuries. To me what sucks about this is just the total lack of consistency. Give up one goal, give up 5 goals, give up 1, give up 7. We're all over the f-ing place.

It is Thanksgiving. If you are out of the playoffs around that time, historically you are out of the playoffs around March. We’re leading our division in games played and are barely in 5th place.

This should be a real concern, sounds exactly like the 2015 Kings.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Maybe Tocchet meant more to that coaching staff than we, the fans, gave him credit for.

Possible, but Arizona's not exactly tearing things up with Tocchet at the helm right now. So far there's about as much evidence that we're missing Tocchet as there is that we're missing Botterill. I'd like to see what roster changes could do for the team before I start giving those ideas much weight.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I can't quite tell for certain, and maybe it's because I'm slow on the uptake, but I'm starting to get the feeling you don't like Kuhnhackl very much. Apologies if I'm dead wrong.

Adams was all heart and a great leader. Hockey needs more players like him.

It's hovering above my bed...

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Possible, but Arizona's not exactly tearing things up with Tocchet at the helm right now. So far there's about as much evidence that we're missing Tocchet as there is that we're missing Botterill. I'd like to see what roster changes could do for the team before I start giving those ideas much weight.

Some are better as assistant coaches than head coaches. It could very well be that Tocchet functions better as an assistant coach playing the "good cop" role, than if he has to be the man in charge of the entire thing.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Some are better as assistant coaches than head coaches. It could very well be that Tocchet functions better as an assistant coach playing the "good cop" role, than if he has to be the man in charge of the entire thing.

Could be. But I'm not ready to start going that route just yet...there's too much we haven't tried and one key roster problem that hasn't been resolved.

 

[Night Shift]

Possible, but Arizona's not exactly tearing things up with Tocchet at the helm right now. So far there's about as much evidence that we're missing Tocchet as there is that we're missing Botterill. I'd like to see what roster changes could do for the team before I start giving those ideas much weight.

True on Bott..I disagree on Tocchet, think he is one of those coaches that makes a better assistant and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Nakawick]

Welcome to center depth hell everyone

 

[Pens x]

Welcome to center depth hell everyone

Have no fear, Carter Rowney will be here...and will continue to suck

 

[Rossi Rat]

Welcome to center depth hell everyone

An old friend whose name rhymes with “butter” happened to notch a nice little empty netter in the end... just sayin’.

 

[The GM]

Missed the game, but reading the post game talk it looks like i picked the wrong week to stop taking amphetamines

 

[Empoleon8771]

It is Thanksgiving. If you are out of the playoffs around that time, historically you are out of the playoffs around March. We’re leading our division in games played and are barely in 5th place.

This should be a real concern, sounds exactly like the 2015 Kings.

I was actually curious, so I looked up what it has been like since 2011:

2012: 12 of 16 were in playoff spots on Thanksgiving (Vancouver, Nashville, Ottawa and NYR were the 4 outside of the playoffs)
2014: 12 of 16 were in playoff spots on Thanksgiving (Columbus, Philadelphia, NYR and Dallas were the 4 outside of the playoffs)
2015: 13 of 16 were in playoff spots on Thanksgiving (Minnesota, NYR and Washington were the 3 outside of the playoffs)
2016: 12 of 16 were in playoff spots on Thanksgiving (Florida, Philadelphia, NYI and Anaheim were the 4 outside of the playoffs)
2017: 13 of 16 were in playoff spots on Thanksgiving (Calgary, Toronto and Boston were the 3 outside of the playoffs)

So basically, 7 of the 8 playoff teams in the West right now are likely going to be in the playoffs. For the East, only 5 or 6 teams currently in a playoff spot will still be there at the end of the season. I think this year might have the most change with Thanksgiving vs the end of the season, though. I see like 5 or 6 team swaps in total, either because they aren't going to miss the playoffs or they aren't going to make the playoffs.

 

[Shady Machine]

Maybe Tocchet meant more to that coaching staff than we, the fans, gave him credit for.

Oh gosh don't go there yet. The roster is worse. To me that's the major problem. If tocchet meant so much, Kessel would be playing poorly.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Oh gosh don't go there yet. The roster is worse. To me that's the major problem. If tocchet meant so much, Kessel would be playing poorly.

I think it's misguided to say that's the major problem. The Penguins wouldn't be having issues if Crosby wasn't playing at a 60 point level. If he's playing where he's normally at, that's an extra 10 goals for the Penguins, all of which would be at ES. Crosby playing at his normal level might change that 2-1 loss to Minnesota to a 3-2 Penguins win, or the 2-1 OT loss to Calgary a 3-1 Pittsburgh win. If Crosby was producing where he should be at ES, the Penguins would probably be something like 14-8-1 (or better) right now instead of 11-9-3. That's only swinging 2 OT/SO losses and 1 regulation loss to wins, but that's a difference of 1st in the division and in a wildcard spot.

 

[ColePens]

I'll breakdown my 3 issues with the most important starting first:

1) Team focus: The coaches say it before and after the game. The players say it before and after the game. They all say the right thing. And then nobody acts. And when they don't act, they even acknowledge they don't act on it! It blows my mind. Murray said it again today and admitted the team came out flat. He said there were no excuses. Sully has touched on it. Jesus. It's unreal. I understand 10-15 games. The Cup wins are done. Re-focus. They are never ready for a game and never jump on teams right away. It's brutal. They have to find that killer instinct.

2) Sid/Letang: You can throw Hags in there, but 58 and 87 are the leaders that have to lead. Period. I'm still 100% behind that both guys will figure it out and we will get back on track. But it's definitely taking longer than I had expected.

3) Fix the roster. We allllll knew and talked about buying time while the 3/4C work itself out. We had an internal winger who could score if we needed a winger. Our defense, IMO, is fine. But Hags, McKegg, Rowney, Archi, Reaves, Kuhn, Sheahan. Too many guys that just don't bring offense. WE knew this was going to be something we had to work on. We ALL figured it would be the #1 issue. I cannot believe it's the #3 issue. That blows my mind.


This team, as is, is definitely underperforming and we already knew we needed a fix to get back to a Cup contending team. They got rid of Wilson, who everyone basically thinks is a dud and what bothers me is the identity was lost in the bottom 6. We aren't a grind and plug team in the bottom 6. We are a fast/skill team. Kuhn and Reaves, while I believe fully they are NHLers, are not fit for this team on an everyday capacity. Archi should be a fill-in on the 4th line for energy. Wilson is a guy who should have been on that 4th line because he can put up 20+ pts and had skill to flow with our game. And even though he had skill, he brought grit, too. And hell I would rather have Chris Kunitz on our 4th line than anyone of the guys out there right now. We knew we'd have a Sheahan/McKegg type center fix for the time being. Fair. The wingers should not be an issue.

This team is good enough and should be better. The top 2 things have to come around because it allows JR to be semi patient in fixing the roster. But without the first two, good lord JR is going to have to pay big time to fix the roster and that's exactly what we do not need. And even if we had a perfect team right now, the first 2 issues would still be the first 2 issues. That team focus is brutal.

 

[molon labe]

If they fail to bring Sprong up in the next few outings - you can almost bet that the reasoning behind it is that he is likely trade-bait. He showed flashes in the pan when called up (was it 2 seasons ago now?) and has been playing AHL hockey since (minus injury). It's known he can score, the downside is that IF he is bad defensively, his trade value will go down. He's known league-wide as a bluechip prospect who can score. You've got to assume they're keeping him stashed on the baby Pens due to that. Yes there's a chance he plays up to the NHL level and increases his trade value, but the chance of him losing value might be too risky considering the positions we're targeting don't require a ton of leverage to acquire (3C mostly).

 

[PensandCaps]

The issue is who is Kessel going to play with? Kessel and Crosby is obviously not going to happen, and I personally don't like how Kessel and Sheahan have meshed. They don't play complementary styles. You can keep him with Malkin, but then how do the other RWers on the roster (mainly Sprong, Hornqvist and Rust) go? Not saying I disagree, just wondering about how they're going to actually make this lineup with so many players not playing well together.

Idk. I like to believe talent takes over eventually, given enough time im sure Jake and Kessel would be good together, heck even Sid and Kessel. Geno,Crosby,Malkin and Guentzel will figure out. Sullivan will also figure it out, on how to get these guys going. He's done it two years in a row. Not gonna start doubting him now.

 

[PensandCaps]

If they fail to bring Sprong up in the next few outings - you can almost bet that the reasoning behind it is that he is likely trade-bait. He showed flashes in the pan when called up (was it 2 seasons ago now?) and has been playing AHL hockey since (minus injury). It's known he can score, the downside is that IF he is bad defensively, his trade value will go down. He's known league-wide as a bluechip prospect who can score. You've got to assume they're keeping him stashed on the baby Pens due to that. Yes there's a chance he plays up to the NHL level and increases his trade value, but the chance of him losing value might be too risky considering the positions we're targeting don't require a ton of leverage to acquire (3C mostly).

Orr maybe Sprong isn't ready? He's not exactly lighting up the AHL for a top talent that he is.

 

[ColePens]

It is Thanksgiving. If you are out of the playoffs around that time, historically you are out of the playoffs around March. We’re leading our division in games played and are barely in 5th place.

This should be a real concern, sounds exactly like the 2015 Kings.

That stat was blown up btw recently, too. I think it was like last year 4 teams weren't in the playoffs and 3 the year before. The stats are around 72-77%. So there is wiggle room there. Let's not act like that stat is an end all stat.

But yes- this team, as is, should at least be in the top 16. That's putting it lightly. We knew they needed to fix things, but we didn't know the team focus would be this piss poor.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Orr maybe Sprong isn't ready? He's not exactly lighting up the AHL for a top talent that he is.

9 goals in 14 games and a PPG. Seems pretty lit.

 

[PensandCaps]

9 goals in 14 games and a PPG. Seems pretty lit.

How many of those are at EV strength though?

 

[ColePens]

How many of those are at EV strength though?

I think it's a simple solution.

What is the kid's #1 talent? Shooting and f***ing scoring.

What is the #1 issue for the Pens right now? We have no energy and we can't score.

Sometimes it's an easier decision than you think.