Post-Game Talk: Canucks 4, Penguins 2 - Daylight savings. We get an extra hour to *****!

[Ogrezilla]

My point is we can't rely on that bottom six to score goals. By and large it's not something most of those players have historically done.

That leaves us to lean on a suddenly old and tired top six. Maybe that top six can be fixed with a trade. Or maybe we need an actually good 3c rather than Sheahan. I don't know. I do know that if JR thinks things will just fix themselves he's probably out to lunch. 16 games is a pretty big sample size and enough to say that this team has problems.

and I'm not really disagreeing that the bottom 6 will score less goals. This bottom 6 will score less goals than last year's did. But my point is that if the top 6 plays like it has for the last 8 games, there is no bottom 6 in the league that would be fixing our problems. I don't care if Matt Duchene is our 3C, three 5v5 goals from the top 6 in eight games is simply not good enough.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

and I'm not really disagreeing that the bottom 6 will score less goals. But my point is that if the top 6 plays like it has for the last 8 games, there is no bottom 6 in the league that would be fixing our problems. I don't care if Matt Duchene is our 3C, 3 5v5 goals in 6 games is simply not good enough.

Exactly.

It's not that people think the bottom six is perfect or that JR should not touch it at all. It's that with the way the top six is currently playing, the bottom six would essentially have to CARRY the team. And that's not really realistic to expect of any bottom six.

I hope JR can find a more offensive minded 3C. I hope JR can make other minor tweaks to maybe cut some of the dead weight. But ultimately, none of that will actually matter if the top six guys continue to get shut out night after night at 5 on 5.

 

[EightyOne]

So. Somebody threw their stick down and helmet against the wall.

 

[Tender Rip]

and I'm not really disagreeing that the bottom 6 will score less goals. This bottom 6 will score less goals than last year's did. But my point is that if the top 6 plays like it has for the last 8 games, there is no bottom 6 in the league that would be fixing our problems. I don't care if Matt Duchene is our 3C, 3 5v5 goals in 6 games is simply not good enough.

Of course not. But I still think it's mostly mental and in many ways a replay of last year when we SUCKED on the road until after New Years. We stayed in it because at home pride didn't permit them stinking it up in front of our own fans. I consider a replay of that quite likely.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Of course not. But I still think it's mostly mental and in many ways a replay of last year when we SUCKED on the road until after New Years. We stayed in it because at home pride permit them stinking it up in front of our own fans. I consider a replay of that quite likely.

I expect things will pick up as well. This is a much better hockey team than they have shown so far this year.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

This Teams problem is not the players. It's the coaching staff right now. Just so many mental errors and the line juggling was just brutal. Absolutely brutal.

Murray didn't look his best either. I don't get to see the team as often as I am used to but holy crap, the entire team is just shit.

Its just, shit. Jr needs to move someone to shake this team to its core. At this point I'm ok if it's Letang or Maatta.

 

[larueskee]

Look I have said this before that Letang should not get the ice time he does. Yes many here said that plus minus is a flawed stat and yet now many are looking at Letang's projected minus 82 and seeing a lousy defensemen. I saw this coming prior to last years cup when many seemed to think it was the end of the world with no Letang. Give me the d men with pluses and you can keep the ones with the minuses and I will every time. Dumo just got a nice big contract and I asked why the heck would Rutherford do that after the Maata debacle. Dumo was heading for a minus 43 before tonights game. The math was there before the season and before the contracts were handed out like Christmas bonuses.

 

[Ogrezilla]

This Teams problem is not the players. It's the coaching staff right now. Just so many mental errors and the line juggling was just brutal. Absolutely brutal.

Murray didn't look his best either. I don't get to see the team as often as I am used to but holy crap, the entire team is just ****.

Its just, ****. Jr needs to move someone to shake this team to its core. At this point I'm ok if it's Letang or Maatta.

I think that would be a huge overreaction and a big mistake. This is a group that can get its shit together. It did it last year. But it's November for a team that has just endured two Cup runs.

Should we make a tweak or two? Add a 3C? Yeah, sure. Trade Maatta or Letang? No.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I get tired of saying this about every goalie we face, who looks like the second coming of Hasak when we're in town. We don't create a lot of rebounds, bodies at the net, deflections. At some point, after a certain number of games, you can't just say it's luck or bad bounces why we're not scoring

You can, it's just that "luck" tends to be used as a catch all. A shot being narrowly off, a great save, a puck being swiped out of the net at the last millisecond, a stick just getting in, a player being slightly too late, etc. Some of that is the other team making a good play, some of it is the Pens screwing up. You also make your own luck in a few ways. The puck taking a weird bounce, a stick breaking or a skate problem are bad luck in a more pure sense. They're not consistently generating enough chaos to create their own good luck right now. They are getting some good chances and mostly failing to convert for one reason or another. It's that they've got to push through this and create a lot of those chances and ugly shit until something gives.

The goalies they've faced lately.

Hellebuyk, .938 and 1.92. They scored 2 against him in one game and 1 in the other.
Smith, .936 and 2.19. They scored 1 goal against him
Talbot, .905 and 3.09. They scored 3 goals in one of the games against him and 2 in the other.
Dubnyk, .905 and 3.03 they scored one 1 goal.
Markstrom, .916 and 2.25 before tonight. They scored 2 goals.

They're not worlds away from what these goalies are averaging. You'd expect a team like the Pens to be above the average but they're not putting 1 goal up against Niemi.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Actually, Letang has always been stupid. He was just athletic enough to overcome the stupidity. He not quite what he was in that regard, and he refuses to adapt.

They spent so much time fixing Letang's body that they didn't think to fix his mind.

I think a Flowers for Algernon kind of procedure is in order.

Letang could start seeing things he's never seen before, like shooting lanes.

 

[ncm7772]

Yeah, I actually thought the Reaves/Hagelin/McKegg line did well tonight. They were generally good on the forecheck, kept Vancouver hemmed in their zone most of their shifts, and even chipped in the only 5 on 5 goal.

If we got that kind of performance from our 4th line every single night, I think most people who aren't just interested in *****ing about them no matter what, would be happy with that effort.

Fair assessment. I actually think the 4th line was very solid tonight.

 

[ncm7772]

16 games is a pretty big sample size and enough to say that this team has problems.

Amen.

Certainly not incurable problems, and not to the extent that any of us should be on the ledge, but problems no doubt.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Shortest off season (along with Nashville), then this season played the most games and I think had the most back to backs so far.

Not sure why Letang is logging so may minutes with his current play, but they certainly have the personnel to work through this

 

[Doogle]

If fatigue with our three stars is this big an issue, then they need to find a way to get them fresh again. Letang's minutes could and should be limited when Schultz and Hunwick come back. In order to limit Sid and Malkin's minutes, we need a 3c we play 20 minutes a night if needed. Duchene obviously comes to mind. We would have to trade salary back obviously. But if we had an elite 3c we could give geno and Sid some 'off nights' where they only play fifteen or sixteen minutes while whomever plays 21 or whatever.

But as things are going, we're looking like we're going to sneak into the playoffs and lose in five in the first round. A shake up seems necessary.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Letang needs to call up MAF and get the name of the sports shrink that Fleury went to, pronto.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It's bad when Letang did that face plant into the dasher (not the super man one that Corrado did) and I was like...maybe that will knock some sense into him. It didn't. It definitely didn't. Man some of the mistakes Letang is making, they are definitely not rust, it's just really dumb choices and some that you couldn't put yourself in a spot to get your bell rung, so he's just overall making the dumbest moves on the ice.

I used to be with the rest of the group that felt Letang was a huge part of this team, but the more this season wears on, he's the one that has zero excuses as he was out and he should be the most well rested person on this damned team, he had pre-season games and camp to shake off the rust, he's also a seasoned veteran, it should never take him more than 5-6 games to get into a groove. Over a dozen games and he's still making horrendous choices shift after shift.

Put me in the group that wants Letang gone.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Letang needs to call up MAF and get the name of the sports shrink that Fleury went to, pronto.

I wonder if that would even help the guy, Letang always seemed so sure of himself so it'd be odd if it really was something that fixes him but hey, it wouldn't be a bad thing, but I wonder if JR/Sully would ever come to him about it.

 

[deakka]

You know its bad when its early November and you have to look at the standings every day too see if we are even still in the playoffs.

As i said before. If we trade our 1st it better be lottery protected.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I do find it adorable that fans are super pumped beating the Pens this year, now that they're a dumpster fire, we're the measuring stick while we're in said dumpster-fire mode.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I don't even think this is anything new, really. This is the same team that won the Cup--with the exact same problems, the only difference is that guys aren't playing their best on a nearly nightly basis. That's not to say we're fine, I'm saying we've been seriously flawed for a long time, but clutch, elite performances (especially from Murray and Fleury) have covered up for some glaring issues with team defense and scoring.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Wow, when did they change the name of this thread to "overreaction city?"

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The problem with staying put with what you have is that your assumption is that it's still better than what everyone else has.

2015-16 - Pens destroyed teams with speed and even if they were down 5-1, would end up winning 6-5, there was never any quit in that team and they were the fastest.
2016-17 - A lot of teams got faster, Pens didn't look like the clear cut fastest anymore, teams were on the verge of adjusting to the Penguins.
2017-18 - The league got faster, the Pens just stayed the same, they don't win the battles they used to and the roster is pretty much the same as the year before sans a couple of people here and there, however vital they may be.

Speed is still a huge thing right now, but you need more effective players in that regard.

Sullivan needs to adapt as well, that is also a huge thing, the ability to adapt. I hate to bring up Bylsma, but hearing the whole "we need to get to our game" type of talk irks me a lot, especially when "our game" needs a f*** load of work. We all knew this, we all knew allowing so many shots is not sustainable, chasing leads isn't sustainable, etc...this team needs to take a hard look at itself before the season gets closer and closer to a disaster. For me, it starts with the coaching staff and leadership. Crosby & Letang have been bad this year, Letang being the worst on the team, but Crosby is no slouch there either, giving up on plays too early, etc.

I seriously wonder how important Tocchet was to that coaching staff right now, fire him already Arizona, so the Pens can remove Recchi and put Tocchet back.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Wow, when did they change the name of this thread to "overreaction city?"

I haven't been reading through the thread, but for me personally, I have been noticing the same issues plaguing this team for a long time--stretching back to last season. This isn't an overreaction, imo, it's a lengthy observation proving the issues aren't slumps, but legitimate flaws in the way this team is built and the way this team as a unit has been defensively.

 

[Rossi Rat]

November hockey, where the Brock Boesers of the world outshine Sid.

Really though, sucks to see our so-called stars struggle as much as they are. Surely they’ll come around soon, right?

 

[Peat]

November hockey, where the Brock Boesers of the world outshine Sid.

Really though, sucks to see our so-called stars struggle as much as they are. Surely they’ll come around soon, right?

If by soon you mean March... then maybe. I think they're going to be pretty inconsistent all season.