Post-Game Talk: Canucks 3, Nailers 0

[Malkin112*]

Awesome!!!

In the NHL, Forsberg has 11 goals, 25 points and is a +22. He was also the rookie of the month in November.

If 13 points in 16 AHL games is spectacular, what would you call what FF has done?

worst part is Forsberg isn't just some one dimensional offence only player. He looks lot like Hossa

 

[Winger for Hire]

Awesome!!!

In the NHL, Forsberg has 11 goals, 25 points and is a +22. He was also the rookie of the month in November.

If 13 points in 16 AHL games is spectacular, what would you call what FF has done?

Depressing

 

[Honour Over Glory]

worst part is Forsberg isn't just some one dimensional offence only player. He looks lot like Hossa

And that's largely due to the work Dean Evason has done with him, he was somewhat one dimensional before Dean made him work for the puck and play a more complete game when he didn't have it, which was a weakness of his, not a massive one, but one that needed work.

People seriously need to shut up about FF unless they know the work that went into him being what he is right now.

I have absolutely zero faith in Hynes and Nas being able to address what Dean did with FF and I am a fan of what Hynes and Nas have done for the most part.

Sigh...

Let's pretend this team has churned out at least 1 legit top 6 winger since 2004 for us to say "Hey we could have had this guy!"...how many have developed from WBS into a top 6 forward?

Anyone?


I'll wait.


Bylsma would have crushed his spirit, he almost did with Despres and Beau Bennett.

 

[Boocock]

Awesome!!!

In the NHL, Forsberg has 11 goals, 25 points and is a +22. He was also the rookie of the month in November.

If 13 points in 16 AHL games is spectacular, what would you call what FF has done?

Something that makes the Forsberg - Erat trade look even more hilarious.

At least we have a young stud on the blue line.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Let's pretend this team has churned out at least 1 legit top 6 winger since 2004 for us to say "Hey we could have had this guy!"...how many have developed from WBS into a top 6 forward?

They have never had anyone with that kind of pedigree. They've largely been trying to polish turds into diamonds.

The best forward in terms of pedigree has been, what, Tangradi?

Of course they're not going to be churning out Top 6 forwards when all you give them to work with is UDFAs, 5th round picks and later, and PMDs.

 

[Shady Machine]

And that's largely due to the work Dean Evason has done with him, he was somewhat one dimensional before Dean made him work for the puck and play a more complete game when he didn't have it, which was a weakness of his, not a massive one, but one that needed work.

People seriously need to shut up about FF unless they know the work that went into him being what he is right now.

I have absolutely zero faith in Hynes and Nas being able to address what Dean did with FF and I am a fan of what Hynes and Nas have done for the most part.

Sigh...

Let's pretend this team has churned out at least 1 legit top 6 winger since 2004 for us to say "Hey we could have had this guy!"...how many have developed from WBS into a top 6 forward?

Anyone?


I'll wait.


Bylsma would have crushed his spirit, he almost did with Despres and Beau Bennett.

How many forwards have been drafted in the 1st round or with FF's pedigree? Anyone? I'll wait.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

And that's largely due to the work Dean Evason has done with him, he was somewhat one dimensional before Dean made him work for the puck and play a more complete game when he didn't have it, which was a weakness of his, not a massive one, but one that needed work.

People seriously need to shut up about FF unless they know the work that went into him being what he is right now.

I have absolutely zero faith in Hynes and Nas being able to address what Dean did with FF and I am a fan of what Hynes and Nas have done for the most part.

Sigh...

Let's pretend this team has churned out at least 1 legit top 6 winger since 2004 for us to say "Hey we could have had this guy!"...how many have developed from WBS into a top 6 forward?

Anyone?


I'll wait.


Bylsma would have crushed his spirit, he almost did with Despres and Beau Bennett.

And who's shoulders does hiring coaches who are terrible at developing young talent fall on?


Not sure how also being bad at hiring coached makes Shero's terrible drafting any better.

 

[Shrimper]

Now that Adams will have the record, can we drop him?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

How many forwards have been drafted in the 1st round or with FF's pedigree? Anyone? I'll wait.

FF was groomed to be what he is right now, he wasn't drafted as the player he is right now. A lot of players are drafted with immense potential and a lot of teams squander it by not developing them properly or the player doesn't want to put in the work.

FF was lucky to be drafted by the Caps and moved to the Preds who were patient with him and let Dean Evason work on things with him that most young players *cough*Yakupov*cough* just don't find "fun."

 

[Winger for Hire]

Now that Adams will have the record, can we drop him?

I think that info graphic shows Craig Adams was always considered a part of the team's core.

 

[IcedCapp]

The one thing I'll say for Shero is if he had been allowed to trade Letang, my understanding, anyhow, is that many of your concerns about forwards drafted would have been allayed

 

[Winger for Hire]

FF was groomed to be what he is right now, he wasn't drafted to be this. A lot of players are drafted with immense potential and a lot of teams squander it by not developing them properly or the player doesn't want to put in the work.

FF was lucky to be drafted by the Caps and moved to the Preds who were patient with him and let Dean Evason work on things with him that most young players *cough*Yakupov*cough* just don't find "fun."

So what players have the Pens squandered in developing?

I'll wait with everyone else.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

And who's shoulders does hiring coaches who are terrible at developing young talent fall on?


Not sure how also being bad at hiring coached makes Shero's terrible drafting any better.

I haven't been a fan of Shero's safe drafting of NA players and the scouts for a very very long time even before him.

I still feel like this franchise is ass backwards with it's scouting and their narrow mindedness with drafting North Americans mostly, only.

 

[Black Label]

And that's largely due to the work Dean Evason has done with him, he was somewhat one dimensional before Dean made him work for the puck and play a more complete game when he didn't have it, which was a weakness of his, not a massive one, but one that needed work.

Forsberg was known as more of a two-way forward when he played in Sweden. If anything developed it was his offensive game. The knock on him going into the draft was more about him filling out his frame than it was developing defensively.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think there's a good case to be made for bad Pens scouting. Drafting, sure I'll agree there was some bad years (though I still think it's to early to call Shero's overall draft record). But development? Other than Fleury, I can't really recall any Pens in recent memory who've had their development ****ed with.

 

[Winger for Hire]

forsberg was known as more of a two-way forward when he played in sweden. If anything developed it was his offensive game. The knock on him going into the draft was more about him filling out his frame than it was developing defensively.

and the truth shall set you free!

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I think there's a good case to be made for bad Pens scouting. Drafting, sure I'll agree there was some bad years (though I still think it's to early to call Shero's overall draft record). But development? Other than Fleury, I can't really recall any Pens in recent memory who've had their development ****ed with.

Well, Bylsma was allowed to mess with Despres for years and they tried to change Morrow's game or whatever it was. I don't think they're bad at development to a point, but when it came time to play them in the NHL it went wrong.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

So what players have the Pens squandered in developing?

I'll wait with everyone else.

I didn't say squander.

But the Pens haven't exactly done much with what they have drafted with forwards.

Beau is the only example we can use and Bylsma would punish him for mistakes that every one else made and got away with, was demoted when he showed potential, etc.

I can just imagine how FF would have turned out.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Well, Bylsma was allowed to mess with Despres for years and they tried to change Morrow's game or whatever it was. I don't think they're bad at development to a point, but when it came time to play them in the NHL it went wrong.

My issue isn't so much with Hynes and Nasreddine, because they are likely going to have to listen to what the NHL coach wants out of them for development and what not, that problem was with Bylsma and also Shero for allowing so much of it to happen. The GM is the boss of the coach, he allowed Bylsma to treat Despres, Bennett and potentially countless other young players to be treated that way. It was a trend with Bylsma and Shero sat back and allowed it to happen.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Forsberg was known as more of a two-way forward when he played in Sweden. If anything developed it was his offensive game. The knock on him going into the draft was more about him filling out his frame than it was developing defensively.

I'm going by what Dean Evason talked about in terms of FF and his talent and what he needed to work on.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

My issue isn't so much with Hynes and Nasreddine, because they are likely going to have to listen to what the NHL coach wants out of them for development and what not, that problem was with Bylsma and also Shero for allowing so much of it to happen. The GM is the boss of the coach, he allowed Bylsma to treat Despres, Bennett and potentially countless other young players to be treated that way. It was a trend with Bylsma and Shero sat back and allowed it to happen.

Pretty much, it stalled when it was NHL time. Either Bylsma hated them or Shero blocked them, neither was good for it.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I didn't say squander.

But the Pens haven't exactly done much with what they have drafted with forwards.

Beau is the only example we can use and Bylsma would punish him for mistakes that every one else made and got away with, was demoted when he showed potential, etc.

I can just imagine how FF would have turned out.

Beau is the ONLY example we can use, so there's no proof to any developmental issues and it wasn't his development that screwed him; it was his injuries and a bad NHL coach. Nothing about developing in the AHL, which is where you first directed your ire.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

The one thing I'll say for Shero is if he had been allowed to trade Letang, my understanding, anyhow, is that many of your concerns about forwards drafted would have been allayed

I feel like Shero would have said somewhere in an interview after his firing that he was blocked from trading Letang. If nothing else, than to save face with prospective future employers. I can't see him falling on a sword for a team that just gave him the boot after screwing with his ability to do his job--essentially costing him said job.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I feel like Shero would have said somewhere in an interview after his firing that he was blocked from trading Letang. If nothing else, than to save face with prospective future employers. I can't see him falling on a sword for a team that just gave him the boot after screwing with his ability to do his job--essentially costing him said job.

Except nobody talks dirt in this league unless they're retired or they've moved on to commentary, at least that's as far as my severally abused memory can recall.

Take it for what you will.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Well, Bylsma was allowed to mess with Despres for years and they tried to change Morrow's game or whatever it was. I don't think they're bad at development to a point, but when it came time to play them in the NHL it went wrong.

Yeah, but that's not on the organization-- that's on Bylsma.

Most teams around the league let the coach have final say on the game roster, unless they're shopping pieces for a trade.

I just don't see the AHL affiliate (as our developmental league) as the problem with our situation, at all. Especially when you compare our prospect development now to what it was like 15 years ago.