Confirmed with Link: Canucks’ games vs TOR, ARI postponed; Myers in protocol (Dec 18)

[MS]

i can wait. two. more. weeks. what you do is on you.

Absolutely. If it turns out that Omicron can spread widely without overflowing hospitals, let ‘er rip.

However, anyone with half a brain should be wanting to wait on that data before coming to that conclusion. It’ll be a couple of weeks and we’ll know.

 

[Diversification]

Once again I have to point out that it's not about individual players getting "less sick", it's about slowing the spread in the community. Some people need to give their collective heads a shake.

The danger of Omicron (if it is indeed similar to Delta in terms of illness) is that unvaccinated individuals have thus far been protected to an extent by being high vaccination rates around them. That no longer applies and makes the situation potentially more dire.

 

[Melvin]

Absolutely. If it turns out that Omicron can spread widely without overflowing hospitals, let ‘er rip.

However, anyone with half a brain should be wanting to wait on that data before coming to that conclusion. It’ll be a couple of weeks and we’ll know.

At the very least it is encouraging that the virus seems to be mutating in ways that people were hoping for in the beginning, turning to a mild strain that we can live with. As shitty as it is to have another wave right now, i am tentatively optimistic that the end is at least visible.

But yeah, its too early to conclude that yet.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Just had a horrible thought.

If AQ had waited just a couple more weeks to clean house, we could've had yet another year of: "But covid!"

*shudder*

 

[RobertKron]

It is an outrage, if we continue to follow this mindset, we'll have games getting cancelled and seasons interrupted for a period measured in decades.

NOT THE SPORTS!!

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

NOT THE SPORTS!!

but muh bread and circuses

 

[Egghead1999]

well sure but “nothing else i can do” doesn’t seem to be the calculus for the tweet that the person i quoted and i were responding to

that is BS. I read that a lot of NHL players will not play the game if they know a player who has C19 is along with them. C'mon, players getting C19 may be fine but a lot of them have a family. Anyway, I guess one of the management is from Reg wings.

 

[Indiana]

NOT THE SPORTS!!

My inalienable rights to be entertained by these players, is being impeded!

SLAP!

I DEMAND SATISFACTION!

 

[VanJack]

Canucks didn't get much help on the out-of-town scoreboard tonight with the Kings and Knights winning their games.

Despite their torrid pace, the Canucks are still six points out of a wildcard spot in the Western Conference. Just goes show how tough it is going to be for the Canucks to overcome their putrid start to the season.

 

[mathonwy]

Canucks didn't get much help on the out-of-town scoreboard tonight with the Kings and Knights winning their games.

Despite their torrid pace, the Canucks are still six points out of a wildcard spot in the Western Conference. Just goes show how tough it is going to be for the Canucks to overcome their putrid start to the season.

Believe.

not /s

 

[The Vasili Jerry]

I mean, go and watch a movie, spend some time with your family, read a book, learn something, bake a cake. Some games of hockey being postponed ain't the end of the world.

 

[M2Beezy]

I mean, go and watch a movie, spend some time with your family, read a book, learn something, bake a cake. Some games of hockey being postponed ain't the end of the world.

Yes it is!

 

[TruGr1t]

Tell that to guys like Brandon Sutter who still can't play hockey as a result of COVID-long. Mentalities like this are why players came back to play after "getting their bell rung" (i.e. concussions) until the league stepped in.

Taking care of the player's health and safety is paramount, and if it causes delays so be it.

This is the way it will all go eventually. Sooner rather than later I'd expect. The NFL is just a first mover.

I just deal in the facts.

 

[LordBacon]

I mean, go and watch a movie, spend some time with your family, read a book, learn something, bake a cake. Some games of hockey being postponed ain't the end of the world.

Don’t tell me what to do!!

 

[Bankerguy]

I havnt been following the news lately but doesnt the data so far show that omricon isnt deadly... and the chance of death if not vaccinated is in line with the FLU? If so... who gives a S.
Delta virus was deadly.. like aggrated just jnder 2% death rate ..i get it. Locker down and all that.. But cmon.. if Omricon aint killing ppl, then let'r rip

 

[orcatown]

We've had flu virus since the beginning of life on earth. Every year we have outbreaks as the flu passes through community after community. I can remember back in school when half the class was away with the flu. In most cases people got sick for a week or so and then overcame it. However, every year people with serious health issues, such respiratory or heart problems or immune deficiencies, which was mostly older people, died. Exact same pattern has occurred this and last year. Deaths were overwhelming in the oldest cohorts (75 and up) with practically no young healthy people dying.

Some might argue the numbers are up even if the percentages are somewhat the same and that justifies shutting down society. Problem is that we never know how serious any flu outbreak might be. And this is very much the case with Omicorn. (and evidence to date suggest it is fairly benign) If we shut down society again, based on speculation about the seriousness of Omicorn then logically we should shut down society whenever a new flu virus appears. Any new virus has the potential to be very serious.

I think, in the end, we can't live like that. The side effects, including massive drug and liquor use, undiagnosed conditions such as cancer, lack of treatment for other painful and potentially life treating mental , dental and psychological problems, the disruption to establishing and maintaining life sustaining relationships with family and friends, the disruption to children's education, the overspending by governments leading to inflation and other economic problems, the disruption to international commerce producing supply problems (and most especially food to poorer areas) , the growing obesity concerns, the job loss to may people working in hospitality and other industries, the ruination of many businesses etc.... likely make the shut down solution to the possible spread of a virus more of killer than Omicorn or just about any virus is likely to be.

To me, risking all the horrid possibilities listed above (and any statistical analysis reveals these are already more than possibilities) by shutting down society on some speculation on how serious Comicron MIGHT BE is open to question.

It is not simply a matter of missing a few hockey games since the much bigger question is whether we should shut down society based upon the the unknown seriousness of Omicorn when we already know the huge and deadly negatives shutting down society has in so many vital areas of life. And maybe even the bigger question than that is whether we should shut down society when any new virus or variant comes along even before we have discover the seriousness of that virus. That seems to be what many are suggesting here.

Reminds me some of the Brave New World where in a the desire to avoid all diseases, to avoid any hardship, to numb yourself to reality and be SAFE, you, in the end, no longer lived but just existed inside your bubble.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

We've had flu virus since the beginning of life on earth. Every year we have outbreaks as the flu passes through community after community. I can remember back in school when half the class was away with the flu. In most cases people got sick for a week or so and then overcame it. However, every year people with serious health issues, such respiratory or heart problems or immune deficiencies, which was mostly older people, died. Exact same pattern has occurred this and last year. Deaths were overwhelming in the oldest cohorts (75 and up) with practically no young healthy people dying.

Some might argue the numbers are up even if the percentages are somewhat the same and that justifies shutting down society. Problem is that we never know how serious any flu outbreak might be. And this is very much the case with Omicorn. (and evidence to date suggest it is fairly benign) If we shut down society again, based on speculation about the seriousness of Omicorn then logically we should shut down society whenever a new flu virus appears. Any new virus has the potential to be very serious.

I think, in the end, we can't live like that. The side effects, including massive drug and liquor use, undiagnosed conditions such as cancer, lack of treatment for other painful and potentially life treating mental , dental and psychological problems, the disruption to establishing and maintaining life sustaining relationships with family and friends, the disruption to children's education, the overspending by governments leading to inflation and other economic problems, the disruption to international commerce producing supply problems (and most especially food to poorer areas) , the growing obesity concerns, the job loss to may people working in hospitality and other industries, the ruination of many businesses etc.... likely make the shut down solution to the possible spread of a virus more of killer than Omicorn or just about any virus is likely to be.

To me, risking all the horrid possibilities listed above (and any statistical analysis reveals these are already more than possibilities) by shutting down society on some speculation on how serious Comicron MIGHT BE is open to question.

It is not simply a matter of missing a few hockey games since the much bigger question is whether we should shut down society based upon the the unknown seriousness of Omicorn when we already know the huge and deadly negatives shutting down society has in so many vital areas of life. And maybe even the bigger question than that is whether we should shut down society when any new virus or variant comes along even before we have discover the seriousness of that virus. That seems to be what many are suggesting here.

Reminds me some of the Brave New World where in a the desire to avoid all diseases, to avoid any hardship, to numb yourself to reality and be SAFE, you, in the end, no longer lived but just existed inside your bubble.

*edit* You know what? f*** it. I'm just done having this exact argument with every idiot on the planet.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

*edit* You know what? f*** it. I'm just done having this exact argument with every idiot on the planet.

I think Orca makes good points. Like others said we will know soon what Omicron is, and whether it is a terrible continuation of Covid or perhaps a transition to an endemic Covid illness. Right now everyone has opinions but nobody knows. You may be right but it is not because you know, you may be wrong but that does not mean you are an idiot. I am leaning endemic but I have been an optimist and silver lining guy before. So maybe an idiot by your definition. So far this optimism has paid of for me and my family. I hope within a couple weeks we have clarity. If deaths and hospitalizations stay low in vacinated population and children then you should not restrict their activities to protect others. I understand there will be good counter arguments about protecting the hospitals or the vulnerable that have merit but in my opinion with the vaccines and treatment available that boat is sailing soon. Minimalizing life to give more security cannot be our go to standard in the long run.

 

[orcatown]

*edit* You know what? f*** it. I'm just done having this exact argument with every idiot on the planet.

Have you ever really listened to an alternate opinion on this topic. Thing is complicated and simple answers while easy to come by don't get us very far. Need to keep an open mind.

Much of what we have hear to date has been filtered through sources with certain agendas and with vested interests in seeing certain interpretations sustained. As it is, there are wide divides between respected virologists on Comicorn and the whole covid episode. Beyond that people on both sides of the issue have tended to substitute emotion for reason and hyperbole for fact.

Hopefully soon we can have a full inquiry into the origins of covid, the initial reports (some now proven invalid) in various medical journals, the effectiveness of masks, shut downs and mandates, the role of the media and other issues surrounding the responses to the virus. And hopefully that can be done in an atmosphere of calm reflection so we can have more measured and less erratic response moving ahead.

 

[Diversification]

We've had flu virus since the beginning of life on earth. Every year we have outbreaks as the flu passes through community after community. I can remember back in school when half the class was away with the flu. In most cases people got sick for a week or so and then overcame it. However, every year people with serious health issues, such respiratory or heart problems or immune deficiencies, which was mostly older people, died. Exact same pattern has occurred this and last year. Deaths were overwhelming in the oldest cohorts (75 and up) with practically no young healthy people dying.

Some might argue the numbers are up even if the percentages are somewhat the same and that justifies shutting down society. Problem is that we never know how serious any flu outbreak might be. And this is very much the case with Omicorn. (and evidence to date suggest it is fairly benign) If we shut down society again, based on speculation about the seriousness of Omicorn then logically we should shut down society whenever a new flu virus appears. Any new virus has the potential to be very serious.

I think, in the end, we can't live like that. The side effects, including massive drug and liquor use, undiagnosed conditions such as cancer, lack of treatment for other painful and potentially life treating mental , dental and psychological problems, the disruption to establishing and maintaining life sustaining relationships with family and friends, the disruption to children's education, the overspending by governments leading to inflation and other economic problems, the disruption to international commerce producing supply problems (and most especially food to poorer areas) , the growing obesity concerns, the job loss to may people working in hospitality and other industries, the ruination of many businesses etc.... likely make the shut down solution to the possible spread of a virus more of killer than Omicorn or just about any virus is likely to be.

To me, risking all the horrid possibilities listed above (and any statistical analysis reveals these are already more than possibilities) by shutting down society on some speculation on how serious Comicron MIGHT BE is open to question.

It is not simply a matter of missing a few hockey games since the much bigger question is whether we should shut down society based upon the the unknown seriousness of Omicorn when we already know the huge and deadly negatives shutting down society has in so many vital areas of life. And maybe even the bigger question than that is whether we should shut down society when any new virus or variant comes along even before we have discover the seriousness of that virus. That seems to be what many are suggesting here.

Reminds me some of the Brave New World where in a the desire to avoid all diseases, to avoid any hardship, to numb yourself to reality and be SAFE, you, in the end, no longer lived but just existed inside your bubble.

Would this be a morally acceptable outcome?: Omicron poses nearly no risk of hospitalization to the vaccinated but is still very dangerous to the unvaccinated. By virtue of immune evasion, vaccinated individuals can now contract and spread COVID like wildfire. Unvaccinated individuals, therefore, are no longer shielded by herd immunity afforded by the vaccinated and start jamming up hospitals and dying at an alarming rate.

That's not an unlikely outcome here. Yes, it would mean a path to endemicity. But at a terrible cost. One I'm not sure I'm happy to live with despite my misgivings about the unvaccinated and the unsoundness of their arguments.

 

[logan5]

*edit* You know what? f*** it. I'm just done having this exact argument with every idiot on the planet.

It's a discussion forum, so for the sake of discussion, we should examine different ideas or opinions. The post was well written and thought out, and not too over the top.

 

[Boose Brudreau]

Would this be a morally acceptable outcome?: Omicron poses nearly no risk of hospitalization to the vaccinated but is still very dangerous to the unvaccinated. By virtue of immune evasion, vaccinated individuals can now contract and spread COVID like wildfire. Unvaccinated individuals, therefore, are no longer shielded by herd immunity afforded by the vaccinated and start jamming up hospitals and dying at an alarming rate.

That's not an unlikely outcome here. Yes, it would mean a path to endemicity. But at a terrible cost. One I'm not sure I'm happy to live with despite my misgivings about the unvaccinated and the unsoundness of their arguments.

something like 25% of adults in South Africa are double vaccinated and despite the case spike peak being almost 40% higher than the previous surge, there are 95% fewer people dying.

 

[iceburg]

For those interested, here's and excellent article published in Nature last Friday. I appreciate this is a hockey forum but this is the best summary I've seen on the topic being discussed.

A key point:
"So far, the data are scarce and incomplete. “There is inevitably a lag between infection and hospitalization,” says infectious-disease epidemiologist Mark Woolhouse at the University of Edinburgh, UK. “In the meantime, policy decisions have to be made and that’s not straightforward.”"

and,

"South Africa’s optimistic data might not be a sign that Omicron itself is more benign than previous variants. More than 70% of the population in regions heavily infected with Omicron have had previous exposure to SARS-CoV-2, and about 40% have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, says Jassat. This makes it difficult to disentangle the effects of pre-existing immunity from inherent properties of the variant itself."

How severe are Omicron infections?

 

[Boose Brudreau]

We've had flu virus since the beginning of life on earth. Every year we have outbreaks as the flu passes through community after community. I can remember back in school when half the class was away with the flu. In most cases people got sick for a week or so and then overcame it. However, every year people with serious health issues, such respiratory or heart problems or immune deficiencies, which was mostly older people, died. Exact same pattern has occurred this and last year. Deaths were overwhelming in the oldest cohorts (75 and up) with practically no young healthy people dying.

Some might argue the numbers are up even if the percentages are somewhat the same and that justifies shutting down society. Problem is that we never know how serious any flu outbreak might be. And this is very much the case with Omicorn. (and evidence to date suggest it is fairly benign) If we shut down society again, based on speculation about the seriousness of Omicorn then logically we should shut down society whenever a new flu virus appears. Any new virus has the potential to be very serious.

I think, in the end, we can't live like that. The side effects, including massive drug and liquor use, undiagnosed conditions such as cancer, lack of treatment for other painful and potentially life treating mental , dental and psychological problems, the disruption to establishing and maintaining life sustaining relationships with family and friends, the disruption to children's education, the overspending by governments leading to inflation and other economic problems, the disruption to international commerce producing supply problems (and most especially food to poorer areas) , the growing obesity concerns, the job loss to may people working in hospitality and other industries, the ruination of many businesses etc.... likely make the shut down solution to the possible spread of a virus more of killer than Omicorn or just about any virus is likely to be.

To me, risking all the horrid possibilities listed above (and any statistical analysis reveals these are already more than possibilities) by shutting down society on some speculation on how serious Comicron MIGHT BE is open to question.

It is not simply a matter of missing a few hockey games since the much bigger question is whether we should shut down society based upon the the unknown seriousness of Omicorn when we already know the huge and deadly negatives shutting down society has in so many vital areas of life. And maybe even the bigger question than that is whether we should shut down society when any new virus or variant comes along even before we have discover the seriousness of that virus. That seems to be what many are suggesting here.

Reminds me some of the Brave New World where in a the desire to avoid all diseases, to avoid any hardship, to numb yourself to reality and be SAFE, you, in the end, no longer lived but just existed inside your bubble.

I wanted to touch on the bolded. We're 647 days into this mess and I don't know of a single person in my Community dying from covid. Perhaps it's somewhat affected by demographics as Port Moody skews young with a lot of children and families. But so far this school year, there have been tragic deaths at both our middle schools. A grade 7 student in my sons class hung herself in November and a grade 8 boy at the other school died from a fentanyl overdose. His mother had been trying to get him treatment for almost a year. The number of people dying of overdoses is more than double that of people dying from Covid in this province. Meanwhile, the average age of a covid death is higher in BC than the average life expectancy. we're almost two years in and the Canadian government, at all levels, have been throwing money around like drunken sailors, yet precious little of it has gone to adding meaningful surge capacity to the hospital system or addressing skilled nursing shortages. if every dollar that the government spent on Advertising campaigns reminding me to wash my hands....do my part.....that we're all in this together, had been spent on training additional front line point of care nurses, we'd all be better off.

 

[RobertKron]

You know it's an honest argument when it centres on mortality rate, which is something we've known for how long now isn't the primary issue?

I'm also sure that all the folks screaming about freeloaders taking handouts from the irresponsible spend-without-end government would typically be extra supportive of public sector unions winning better pay and conditions for their members. Similarly, I'm sure the bulk of that demographic have really been pushing for harm reduction initiatives for people suffering from addictions.