Canes/Wings Postponed after ice cooling issue

[bleedblue94]

Yeah, but you get a lot of free ice time! I actually started seeing what it was like running a rink back when I was 5. My brother's best friend's Dad owned the local rink. I used to get recruited twice a year to skate down the ice when they were building it up. That's the old fashioned way of marking up the ice in order to make it opaque. He'd get a dozen of us to skate it down in between each layer of water. We'd come home exhausted and (sometimes) covered in line paint if we were not careful.

Nowadays they use decals and machines. We were a lot cheaper labor.

Ha, we still use hand painted logos as do many places. They look so much better than the decals and the lines look sharper than using paper ect.

I backed my way into this profession, was planning to go to law school, but I am happy how it worked out based on my love of the sport, the people, heritage and the environment...

 

[caniac247]

For those complaining that Canes should forfeit a lose or whatever, guess you AC unit never crapped out on you unexpectedly, huh. Waddell said its all run on computer and they knew immediately that there was a leak. They had to find the leak and repair it. The ice surface got up to 25 degrees, and they needed it to be 17-18 degrees. Once the repair was made, freon was put back in, and confirmed that it was holding, it would have taken about 1.5 hours for the ice to get to the desired temp, hence postponing the game.

**** happens. People need to get over it. This isn't the Canes fault.

Although, I did have a good laugh seeing Hainsey come out in his shorts and flip flops testing the ice, twice. And another player banging his stick on the ice.

 

[bleedblue94]

For those complaining that Canes should forfeit a lose or whatever, guess you AC unit never crapped out on you unexpectedly, huh. Waddell said its all run on computer and they knew immediately that there was a leak. They had to find the leak and repair it. The ice surface got up to 25 degrees, and they needed it to be 17-18 degrees. Once the repair was made, freon was put back in, and confirmed that it was holding, it would have taken about 1.5 hours for the ice to get to the desired temp, hence postponing the game.

**** happens. People need to get over it. This isn't the Canes fault.

Although, I did have a good laugh seeing Hainsey come out in his shorts and flip flops testing the ice, twice. And another player banging his stick on the ice.

All of this ^, although I have my doubts that the issue happened 15 minutes before the game. My belief is it happened earlier in the day and they were working on it believing that they could get things fixed in time, but it would be impossible to translate all the information to the general public to make them understand the logistics of such a repair, just look at the reaction to the "ice making machine" broke tweet, everyone thought it was like a keurig that needed to be replaced or have a filter changed. I have no criticism of anything that happened yesterday even though a lot of people were affected by it. Things happen unfortunately...

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I wonder what other great marvels that architect designed.

I've also got to dig around and see if I still have any ice caps stuff

That architect was Maciej Nowicki. He helped with the reconstruction of Warsaw after World War II, the design of UN Headquarters, and was the chief architect of the city of Chandigarh, India. He actually died before Dorton was completed when the plane he was on crashed on the way back from Chandigarh.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Exactly, I stated this earlier. This is not only a quality issue but a safety issue that I'm sure is part of their cba with the players...

Might not even need to be part of the CBA... OSHA might apply in a case of players being given a deliberately substandard playing surface.

 

[swimmer77]

I have to say - very interesting thread.

Comparing this with a personal AC is comparing apples to oranges though. My personal AC isn't holding some 17,000 people at bay and messing with all of the logistics that is takes to get a game played.

So here are some questions:

1. Was it a seal in a compressor that failed (thought I read that in this thread) or a leak in the piping itself or something else?

2. Has this ever happened - that a game was cancelled in the NHL because of mechanical failure? I don't remember this happening, honestly.

This really sucks for the the Red Wing fans that made the trip to see their team play. I'm not a Caniac but have been to PNC arena to see "other" teams because tickets are less expensive and easier to get.

I was always more concerned about weather issues interfering with travel and never gave a thought the ice could crap out.

 

[talkinaway]

For what it's worth, the team is definitely trying to compensate the fans well for this. I got an e-mail last night outlining what fans who attended will get for their troubles:

• A rescheduled game date has yet to be announced by the NHL.
• Your original ticket for tonight’s game will be valid for the rescheduled game vs. Detroit. No exchange will be necessary.
• Additionally, we will be providing you a bonus voucher that will be redeemable for any remaining regular season home game (excluding 12/23, 12/30, 1/20).
• We will also be offering STM Appreciation Game concession pricing at the re-scheduled Detroit Red Wings game.
• Parking- Your parking pass from tonight’s game (VIP, PG, P, and G) will be accepted at the rescheduled game.

Edit - per the News and Observer, the problem

I have no pony in this race, but hats off to Carolina's owners and management. As a Bruins fan who regularly sees our fans get shafted by ticket prices (no playoffs in 2 years, and they raised prices for everyone but full STHs this year) and concession prices (beer is now $11.50 for a 20 oz Bud Urine), this seems like a generous package. Two for the price of one, and cheap(er) concessions.

Again, I feel bad for anyone who made a specific trip to see the game, but there's not much that can be done, and unfortunately that's one of the risks of being a visiting fan. They don't want to set a precedent where they refund all the tickets carte blance, and if you read the fine print on your ticket, "time and opponents subject to change".

As far as scheduling, some of the dates mentioned here are no-nos because of the mandated 5 days off for every team. And some of them are no-nos because of back-to-back back-to-backs (ie 4 games in 5 days). We may see a minor domino effect - if they can move one "innocent bystander" game and nobody gets worse than a 3 in 4, they might do it. I think either Buffalo (snow) or Boston (marathon bombing) had this happen in the past 4-5 years. The original game was rescheduled, and one other game involving only one of the original two teams was also rescheduled.

And thanks to all the ice experts in this thread...always happy to learn a little more about how the ice is made.

 

[bleedblue94]

I have to say - very interesting thread.

Comparing this with a personal AC is comparing apples to oranges though. My personal AC isn't holding some 17,000 people at bay and messing with all of the logistics that is takes to get a game played.

So here are some questions:

1. Was it a seal in a compressor that failed (thought I read that in this thread) or a leak in the piping itself or something else?

2. Has this ever happened - that a game was cancelled in the NHL because of mechanical failure? I don't remember this happening, honestly.

This really sucks for the the Red Wing fans that made the trip to see their team play. I'm not a Caniac but have been to PNC arena to see "other" teams because tickets are less expensive and easier to get.

I was always more concerned about weather issues interfering with travel and never gave a thought the ice could crap out.

Yes it's apples to oranges from one standpoint, but from the standpoint of slow loss of efficiency due to a freon leak it is relative...

 

[Inkling]

2. Has this ever happened - that a game was cancelled in the NHL because of mechanical failure? I don't remember this happening, honestly.

Chris Nilan, who is now on the radio in Montreal, just related a story from when he played for the Rangers and their game in Tampa at the Sun Coast Dome was cancelled due to bad ice. It sounded like the ice was so soft that the players were trying to kick holes in it on purpose and break the hoses to release the 'green stuff' during warm up because it was so bad they didn't want to play the game and risk injury.

I don't know if it was 'mechanical failure' though as he seemed to say the ice was just plain bad there at the best of times, and that day it was particularly awful.

EDIT: Nilan retired before the Lightning joined the league so it sounds like it might have actually been a neutral site exhibition game. I'd have to listen to his conversation with Kerry Fraser again.

 

[bleedblue94]

I have no pony in this race, but hats off to Carolina's owners and management. As a Bruins fan who regularly sees our fans get shafted by ticket prices (no playoffs in 2 years, and they raised prices for everyone but full STHs this year) and concession prices (beer is now $11.50 for a 20 oz Bud Urine), this seems like a generous package. Two for the price of one, and cheap(er) concessions.

Again, I feel bad for anyone who made a specific trip to see the game, but there's not much that can be done, and unfortunately that's one of the risks of being a visiting fan. They don't want to set a precedent where they refund all the tickets carte blance, and if you read the fine print on your ticket, "time and opponents subject to change".

As far as scheduling, some of the dates mentioned here are no-nos because of the mandated 5 days off for every team. And some of them are no-nos because of back-to-back back-to-backs (ie 4 games in 5 days). We may see a minor domino effect - if they can move one "innocent bystander" game and nobody gets worse than a 3 in 4, they might do it. I think either Buffalo (snow) or Boston (marathon bombing) had this happen in the past 4-5 years. The original game was rescheduled, and one other game involving only one of the original two teams was also rescheduled.

And thanks to all the ice experts in this thread...always happy to learn a little more about how the ice is made.

Agreed, they are making the absolute best out of an unfortunate situation...

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I have to say - very interesting thread.

Comparing this with a personal AC is comparing apples to oranges though. My personal AC isn't holding some 17,000 people at bay and messing with all of the logistics that is takes to get a game played.

So here are some questions:

1. Was it a seal in a compressor that failed (thought I read that in this thread) or a leak in the piping itself or something else?

Per Don Waddell in today's News & Observer (the local newspaper), it was a seal in the compressor that failed and caused freon to leak from the system

2. Has this ever happened - that a game was cancelled in the NHL because of mechanical failure? I don't remember this happening, honestly.

I'm not sure about issues with the ice plant causing postponements elsewhere. I know when the jumbotron at KeyBank Arena fell to the ice in '96 it caused a game between the Sabres and Bruins to be postponed. I'm not sure if the Hartford Civic Center's roof collapse caused any Whalers games to be postponed or if they seamlessly moved to Springfield.

This really sucks for the the Red Wing fans that made the trip to see their team play. I'm not a Caniac but have been to PNC arena to see "other" teams because tickets are less expensive and easier to get.

I was always more concerned about weather issues interfering with travel and never gave a thought the ice could crap out.

Responses in bold, above.

 

[tarheelhockey]

2. Has this ever happened - that a game was cancelled in the NHL because of mechanical failure? I don't remember this happening, honestly.

Not NHL, but I mentioned this situation over lunch to a coworker and she said she went to a Washington Nationals game last year which was cancelled due to the stadium lights failing.

The thing is, when you're dealing with mechanical systems it's only a matter of time before something like this happens. No matter how well you maintain the equipment, there's always a chance of failure.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Not NHL, but I mentioned this situation over lunch to a coworker and she said she went to a Washington Nationals game last year which was cancelled due to the stadium lights failing.

The thing is, when you're dealing with mechanical systems it's only a matter of time before something like this happens. No matter how well you maintain the equipment, there's always a chance of failure.

When Mellon Arena was on its last legs there were a couple times the lights went out in there as well. I believe they came on after a bit, but that obviously would have necessitated a postponement if they'd been unable to restore lighting to the building, unless they wanted to pay history to SW Pennsylvania's coal mining heritage and give everybody a miner's helmet with lamp.

 

[swimmer77]

Again..........thanks for the tech info. I am employed in an industry where we are working with unfrozen bodies of water that can be about the square foot size of a hockey rink, and smaller and larger - a swimming pool. Think Rio!

Guessing they had the seal on the shelf. How long would it take to replace?

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I have no pony in this race, but hats off to Carolina's owners and management. As a Bruins fan who regularly sees our fans get shafted by ticket prices (no playoffs in 2 years, and they raised prices for everyone but full STHs this year) and concession prices (beer is now $11.50 for a 20 oz Bud Urine), this seems like a generous package. Two for the price of one, and cheap(er) concessions.

Again, I feel bad for anyone who made a specific trip to see the game, but there's not much that can be done, and unfortunately that's one of the risks of being a visiting fan. They don't want to set a precedent where they refund all the tickets carte blance, and if you read the fine print on your ticket, "time and opponents subject to change".

As far as scheduling, some of the dates mentioned here are no-nos because of the mandated 5 days off for every team. And some of them are no-nos because of back-to-back back-to-backs (ie 4 games in 5 days). We may see a minor domino effect - if they can move one "innocent bystander" game and nobody gets worse than a 3 in 4, they might do it. I think either Buffalo (snow) or Boston (marathon bombing) had this happen in the past 4-5 years. The original game was rescheduled, and one other game involving only one of the original two teams was also rescheduled.

And thanks to all the ice experts in this thread...always happy to learn a little more about how the ice is made.

I'll agree to that and as bizarre as seeing the Fireplace For Your Home and Solitaire streamed on the jumbotron were, I feel like the team made the best of it. They had a handbell choir that was going to perform during one of the intermissions perform. For what it's worth, our total outlay for the game was around $37.00 - $15.00 for parking plus $11.00 each for two beers (20 oz pours of Aviator's Devil's Tramping Ground). My wife and I are half-season ticket holders and we used two of the vouchers we get as part of our package for the game, so I'm not include the ticket prices in that. If we had paid for tickets, last night's game was a Silver game, so tickets in our section were $26.00 each for us as STHs or $35.00 each at the box office.

I'd say we're definitely being compensated minus the cost of the beers which, let's be honest, we enjoyed anyway with or without the game. FWIW the three games that you can't use the vouchers for are the three Gold games on the calendar - 12/23 versus the Bruins, 12/30 versus the Blackhawks, and 1/20 against the Pens. I don't think that's an unreasonable restriction.

 

[robertocarlos]

The game has to be played and points awarded so that one or both of these teams can move ahead of the other teams in the draft lottery. Or if you want to tank just unplug the ice making machine.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I'll agree to that and as bizarre as seeing the Fireplace For Your Home and Solitaire streamed on the jumbotron were, I feel like the team made the best of it.

The Jumbotron guy was the real MVP last night.

I have a feeling that they would have done something along the lines of their usual tshirt-cannon intermission promos, except that

a) It probably would have violated their sponsorship contract
and
b) If the game had gone forward, they needed something to do during the actual intermissions

Also, they couldn't do anything on the ice surface. So that really only left the nooks and crannies of the seating area for entertainment.

It was a pretty difficult situation from an event management perspective. The Jumbotron and the handbell choir were pretty much the only feasible entertainment options.

 

[bleedblue94]

Again..........thanks for the tech info. I am employed in an industry where we are working with unfrozen bodies of water that can be about the square foot size of a hockey rink, and smaller and larger - a swimming pool. Think Rio!

Guessing they had the seal on the shelf. How long would it take to replace?

Again, a loaded question.

But which seal was it? There are MANY seals on these systems, and it's not worth speculating which it was...

 

[Dolly Rocker]

I wonder what other great marvels that architect designed.

I've also got to dig around and see if I still have any ice caps stuff

http://ncarchitects.lib.ncsu.edu/people/P000044

https://d.lib.ncsu.edu/collections/...iej),+1915-1950&f[topic_facet][]=Architecture

Coming out of the woodwork for this, but Matthew Nowicki was one of the pioneers of the modernist architecture movement in North Carolina, as were most of his fellow professors at NC State's architecture school during his tenure. The Dorton Arena is considered his most famous work but he did some work on the D.H. Hill Library and also a country club I think. He probably would have done more if he had not died so tragically.

Sadly he built no other hockey arenas. Although as someone pointed out earlier, buildings with lots of windows like that are not really conducive to maintaining large sheets of ice.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

This would explain why Karmanos was selling securities last week.

Seriously, any vague idea when a makeup date would possibly be? End of season?

Can they tack it into a teams bye week? Wings is Feb. 22-27, and Canes are on a homestand then.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

Again, a loaded question.

But which seal was it? There are MANY seals on these systems, and it's not worth speculating which it was...

not sure what you are getting at?

 

[MNNumbers]

not sure what you are getting at?

He's just responding to the Swimming Pool guy, who asked how long it would take to make the repair.

He means, "You can't really know, without knowing which seal it was. And, why ask the question. It's obvious that they replaced it, and simply did not have time enough to cool the ice back down to the required 18F. There is no nefarious activity here. There is no reason to point fingers. It's just an unfortunate situation."

I think there is little sense in this thread of people probing for ways to make this a reflection on the Hurricanes' organization - and to say, "They are bush league...."

But, there really is no way for us to go down that road, because we don't have enough information.

So, he is saying, "just leave it."

 

[CanadienShark]

Noticed issues with the puck settling down last Friday when the Caps were there. Wondered about the ice. Now I know. Machine was dying.

Ice was garbage on Saturday against the Sabres, too.

Strange they wouldn't have bothered to properly test it before the Canes/Wings game then. Was there an event going on in between?

 

[bleedblue94]

He's just responding to the Swimming Pool guy, who asked how long it would take to make the repair.

He means, "You can't really know, without knowing which seal it was. And, why ask the question. It's obvious that they replaced it, and simply did not have time enough to cool the ice back down to the required 18F. There is no nefarious activity here. There is no reason to point fingers. It's just an unfortunate situation."

I think there is little sense in this thread of people probing for ways to make this a reflection on the Hurricanes' organization - and to say, "They are bush league...."

But, there really is no way for us to go down that road, because we don't have enough information.

So, he is saying, "just leave it."

Rarely do I like people speaking for me, but in this instance "applause!"

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Strange they wouldn't have bothered to properly test it before the Canes/Wings game then. Was there an event going on in between?

There was an NC State basketball game on Sunday. And what are you wanting them to test, precisely?