Confirmed with Link: Canes sign Calvin de Haan 4 years 18.2M

[Frankie41987]

As an Islanders fan, congrats on DeHaan. He was our best 5v5 defensemen (the team really, really missed him once he got injured back in November). Not much of a PP QB but he does everything else well. Amazing AAV for what he is as long as he stays healthy.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Keeping Skinner around leaves the possibility of losing him to FA for nothing. That's less than ideal.

It depends on the extent to which Waddell is getting squeezed by Skinner's NMC. If the return is going to be a 2nd + B-prospect, there's enough depth in the organization to forgo that.

 

[FlyingSquirrels]

Knowing we are vastly improved defensively with CdH and Hamilton (I know G may be an issue), does anyone besides me think this lineup wouldn't be half bad?

Zykov/Aho/TT
Ferland/Necas/Svech
McGinn/Staal/Williams
Martinook/Rask/Foegele
PDG

In other words, we can trade Skinner and Faulk for futures and be OK.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Knowing we are vastly improved defensively with CdH and Hamilton (I know G may be an issue), does anyone besides me think this lineup wouldn't be half bad?

Zykov/Aho/TT
Ferland/Necas/Svech
McGinn/Staal/Williams
Martinook/Rask/Foegele
PDG

In other words, we can trade Skinner and Faulk for futures and be OK.

3 rookies in the Top 6 is asking for trouble. And if Ferland is another Tlusty/LaRose situation (3rd liner producing on a top line because his linemates carried), then our Top 6 is basically Aho, TT half the time, and 4 question marks.

 

[The Stranger]

CdH is a nice player. However, he does have a history of shoulder injuries...always makes me nervous, especially for a d-man.

In light of the Hanifin trade, they needed to bring in another top 4 d-man, so this is about as good of a move as possible. Good thing here is they bring him in for free in terms of assets.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

3 rookies in the Top 6 is asking for trouble. And if Ferland is another Tlusty/LaRose situation (3rd liner producing on a top line because his linemates carried), then our Top 6 is basically Aho, TT half the time, and 4 question marks.

I mean, if you want to look at it with the least optimism possible, have at it.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I mean, if you want to look at it with the least optimism possible, have at it.

Some folks are determined never to be optimistic about anything, because then they think they'll never be disappointed.

Then they are, of course.

Pessimism is a sucker's bet, because it never pays off with anything except some Eeyore "I knew it" ish.

(And don't @ me, I probably can't see you anyway.)

 

[DaveG]

Honestly, unless we're bringing in a solid forward in the Skinner or Faulk trades, or a high end #1G, then I'd rather we just hang on to Skinner at this point. Of course, if someone like Nylander or even Saad is out there for us I'd make the move.

Otherwise if we're moving Skinner for futures might as well do it at the deadline and use max retention to maximize our return.

 

[wingnutks]

Congrats on getting CDH. Excellent Dman. Jack of all trades type but a little better defensively than offensively but is very cerebral. As long as he doesn't get hurt he is a steal of free agency!

 

[emptyNedder]

3 rookies in the Top 6 is asking for trouble. And if Ferland is another Tlusty/LaRose situation (3rd liner producing on a top line because his linemates carried), then our Top 6 is basically Aho, TT half the time, and 4 question marks.

I agree that the Necas/Svechnikov line needs a veteran--or at least a solid-two way player. Ferland plays physical/aggressive, but the fact that he has never received penalty kill time makes me think he is not above-average defensively. If Necas/Svech do play together, I have no doubt they will get the majority of their starts in the O-zone. But they will still need to be able to defend and are likely to see other teams' best lines. If no trade is made, I personally would prefer McGinn/Necas/Svechnikov. McGinn can play the physical game and last year was sound defensively and didn't give the puck away. Those are qualities I want with the rookies. As far as offense, McGinn had 13 Es goals and Ferland 15, so no big drop-off.

Ideally, the Canes can get a player who can play LW (RNH perhaps) or is a traditional LW (Tanner Pearson) that also is somewhat of a veteran. I mentioned in another thread that I would even be ok with Zach Hyman because he is sound in all three zones.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Congrats on getting CDH. Excellent Dman. Jack of all trades type but a little better defensively than offensively but is very cerebral. As long as he doesn't get hurt he is a steal of free agency!

It seems we're collecting undervalued cerebral players.

If this is the direction, I like it. I like it a lot.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

we can all agree that you help your offense by making your defense better, yes? if so, then moving faulk and skinner isn't as dangerous as one would assume if the options that benefit from their icetime vacancy are more defensively responsible while allowing other players to thrive offensively.

ferland scored 20 goals last year. mcginn would have scored 20 if half the posts he hit went in. rask had a terrible year and is due for an improvement upon his season of last year. aho and teravainen should be able to improve upon their totals from last year due to development. svechnikov and necas are total wildcards, but should be good for some immediate offense considering their pedigrees. williams, despite his age, could likely pot 20 next year and surprise no one. zykov is going to get some minutes and likely score some greasy ones. this is not the same team as last year that struggled to create anything. dropping dead offensive weight like kruger, nordstrom, stempniak, diguiseppe as a regular skater.... all of that is going to improve our offense with the options that have replaced them. our 4th line used to be a black hole offensively and we've damn near made it a strength.

if necas and svechnikov are ready for primetime, as in 20 goal scorers, this team will have no problem in GF even if we yield no roster pieces back for faulk and skinner.

Svechnikov and Necas combining for 40 as rookies barely offsets the 39 Skinner and Ryan put up. de Haan averages ~3 goals per 82 games and Hamilton put up 17 last season; that barely offsets the 18 Hanifin and Faulk combined for. Lindholm to Ferland adds 5 goals. The end result of all of the major lineup swaps in that hypothetical is 8 goals. That still puts Carolina below the median.

That leaves internal improvement to go above that. Perhaps Aho and Teravainen can squeeze out a couple more beyond the 52 they put up as a duo last season. Perhaps Rask bounces back, McGinn gets luckier and Williams finds a way back to the 20 goal plateau. Perhaps Zykov can exceed Di Giuseppe and Stempniak’s combined 8 goals in a 4th line role.

What you’ve suggested is reasonable in every case in isolation. All of it happening in concert seems excessively optimistic; there’s no margin for error there. Everything would have to go right to have an above-average offense. Keep Skinner and Faulk, and there’s a much better chance of getting to that level and perhaps beyond.

 

[MinJaBen]

I am a bit worried about CDH's shoulder history. Fortunately, we have some good depth that can cover for him in the short run if necessary.

 

[GoldiFox]

3 rookies in the Top 6 is asking for trouble. And if Ferland is another Tlusty/LaRose situation (3rd liner producing on a top line because his linemates carried), then our Top 6 is basically Aho, TT half the time, and 4 question marks.

Zykov - Aho - TT
McGinn - Staal - Williams
Ferland - Necas - Svech

Problem solved. 2 Rookies out of the top-6 and now the Canes have a firepower 3rd line instead of a shutdown one.

I joke, but given how even the talent is up and down the roster (save for clearer 4th line energy guys like Martinook, PDG, Foegele) I don’t think we will see highly defined roles. I’d guess they roll closer to 4 scoring lines like Vegas last year, with Staal/Slavin primarily shutting down the best opponents and Aho/Hamilton getting the primary scoring line role.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I mean, if you want to look at it with the least optimism possible, have at it.

I prefer to think of it as looking at it logically. If everything works out, great, there's no issue. But things rarely work out as planned (especially for this team), and thus, it's best to look at it assuming the worst.

If you attack a problem assuming everything goes wrong, you're prepared for situations that you otherwise might not be if you assume everything is going to work out.

Thus, if we assume that one (or more) of Necas, Svech, or Zykov isn't prepared to handle a full-season grind in a Top 6 role (not an unreasonable assumption, IMO), then trading Skinner/Faulk for just futures doesn't seem like the wisest decision. Isn't it better to have a plan in place just in case?

 

[Unsustainable]

Some folks are determined never to be optimistic about anything, because then they think they'll never be disappointed.

Then they are, of course.

Pessimism is a sucker's bet, because it never pays off with anything except some Eeyore "I knew it" ish.

(And don't @ me, I probably can't see you anyway.)

@HankAnger

 

[GoldiFox]

Svechnikov and Necas combining for 40 as rookies barely offsets the 39 Skinner and Ryan put up. de Haan averages ~3 goals per 82 games and Hamilton put up 17 last season; that barely offsets the 18 Hanifin and Faulk combined for. Lindholm to Ferland adds 5 goals. The end result of all of the major lineup swaps in that hypothetical is 8 goals. That still puts Carolina below the median.

That leaves internal improvement to go above that. Perhaps Aho and Teravainen can squeeze out a couple more beyond the 52 they put up as a duo last season. Perhaps Rask bounces back, McGinn gets luckier and Williams finds a way back to the 20 goal plateau. Perhaps Zykov can exceed Di Giuseppe and Stempniak’s combined 8 goals in a 4th line role.

What you’ve suggested is reasonable in every case in isolation. All of it happening in concert seems excessively optimistic; there’s no margin for error there. Everything would have to go right to have an above-average offense. Keep Skinner and Faulk, and there’s a much better chance of getting to that level and perhaps beyond.

You missed out replacing Nordstrom, Kruger, Stempniak, Jooris. 191 games combined with 9 goals.

Replace that with 10-20 from each of Zykov and Foegele (164 games total from full season) plus another 5 from 25 games of (insert Checker) to match and you have a huge improvement.

 

[Moosetache]

This from Kevin weekes last night: “
Not difficult to conclude that with no negotiations with @BlueJacketsNHL Bobrovsky won’t be with CBJ beyond his contact, if not sooner”

If they trade Panarin, perhaps we can send Skinner there in some way for Bob?

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

You missed out replacing Nordstrom, Kruger, Stempniak, Jooris. 191 games combined with 9 goals.

Replace that with 10-20 from each of Zykov and Foegele (164 games total from full season) plus another 5 from 25 games of (insert Checker) to match and you have a huge improvement.

Zykov and Foegele, if he doesn't spend the year developing offensively in Charlotte, aren't putting up 10-20 each on a 4th line. There's not enough ice time for them to do that. Elevate Zykov and either Rask or Ferland's goal production will drop.

 

[DaveG]

Zykov and Foegele, if he doesn't spend the year developing offensively in Charlotte, aren't putting up 10-20 each on a 4th line. There's not enough ice time for them to do that. Elevate Zykov and either Rask or Ferland's goal production will drop.

Yeah I don't think Foegele's going to be full-time with the Canes next year at least from the current look of things. That said, I wouldn't count on Zykov staying on the 4th line, injuries happen.

Aho - Rask - Turbo
Ferland - Staal - Svechnikov
Skinner - Necas - Williams
Zykov - Martinook - McGinn
PDG

as of right now.

I think we see McGinn's production stay about the same this season if he can work his way in to the top 9 again, Zykov put up about 15 goals or so especially if he gets PP time even from the 4th line as I expect he will. Martinook at least SHOULD outpace Krueger from last year. Ferland I don't think will produce as much as Lindholm but should still be good for 15-20 type line, Svechnikov should VASTLY outpace what we got from Stempniak last year, Rask should have a better year then he did last year, and I think moving from Ryan to Necas is a wash as a worst case scenario. I'd expect contract-year Skinner to be back to 60+ point 30+ goal type form.

 

[GoCanes2015]

Prior to last year, CDH played in 90% of possible games in 3 years. That's not bad for a "injury-prone" guy. Many players have 1 major injury in their career, so him having his last year doesn't make him "injury-prone" - by the looks of available injury reporting, all his other missed days were "day-to-day" type injuries.

Congrats on getting CDH. Excellent Dman. Jack of all trades type but a little better defensively than offensively but is very cerebral. As long as he doesn't get hurt he is a steal of free agency!

 

[ndp]

It seems we're collecting undervalued cerebral players.

If this is the direction, I like it. I like it a lot.

I was going to post something similar to this the other day.

I wonder if moving Hanafin out had anything to do with his "jockness" The kid is an amazing skater and the sky is the limit when it come to his potential but he screamed high school jock to me. Kind of a meat head.
He just didn't seem to think the game that well to me. I get the feeling he was a classic case of a player getting by on pure skill and physicality at a young age but never learned to think the game the way some players had to in order to become successful.

Our lineup as it is now seems to have quite a few players who bring a higher hockey IQ. This could be another reason for wanting to move on from Skinner and Faulk. Two more naturally skilled players that sometimes make complete boneheaded mistakes.

It's an interesting theory and if this is the direction the team is trying to go I for one am very excited.

 

[spockBokk]

Yeah I don't think Foegele's going to be full-time with the Canes next year at least from the current look of things. That said, I wouldn't count on Zykov staying on the 4th line, injuries happen.

Aho - Rask - Turbo
Ferland - Staal - Svechnikov
Skinner - Necas - Williams
Zykov - Martinook - McGinn
PDG

as of right now.

I think we see McGinn's production stay about the same this season if he can work his way in to the top 9 again, Zykov put up about 15 goals or so especially if he gets PP time even from the 4th line as I expect he will. Martinook at least SHOULD outpace Krueger from last year. Ferland I don't think will produce as much as Lindholm but should still be good for 15-20 type line, Svechnikov should VASTLY outpace what we got from Stempniak last year, Rask should have a better year then he did last year, and I think moving from Ryan to Necas is a wash as a worst case scenario. I'd expect contract-year Skinner to be back to 60+ point 30+ goal type form.

I like those lines with one exception-I’d flip-flop Staal and Necas. I think Staal would be a black hole with Svechnikov. If Necas is up to it, looks like the org may be hell bent on playing them together.

Also, I really think Rask may be held onto just because we’re so thin at center. That’s being overlooked I think. Rask, even though he had a pretty crappy season last year, is a proven top 9 C. I’m not yet sold on Aho as a full time C, nor am I fully sold on Necas. Rask at least is insurance at that position, albeit a pretty expensive policy at $4M per.

 

[Unsustainable]

Yeah I don't think Foegele's going to be full-time with the Canes next year at least from the current look of things. That said, I wouldn't count on Zykov staying on the 4th line, injuries happen.

Aho - Rask - Turbo
Ferland - Staal - Svechnikov
Skinner - Necas - Williams
Zykov - Martinook - McGinn
PDG

as of right now.

I think we see McGinn's production stay about the same this season if he can work his way in to the top 9 again, Zykov put up about 15 goals or so especially if he gets PP time even from the 4th line as I expect he will. Martinook at least SHOULD outpace Krueger from last year. Ferland I don't think will produce as much as Lindholm but should still be good for 15-20 type line, Svechnikov should VASTLY outpace what we got from Stempniak last year, Rask should have a better year then he did last year, and I think moving from Ryan to Necas is a wash as a worst case scenario. I'd expect contract-year Skinner to be back to 60+ point 30+ goal type form.

Rask on the 1st line? Yuck.

 

[GoCanes2015]

I might flip Williams and McGinn -OR- Skinner and McGinn in the lineup below. And Yes, I know I'm moving McGinn between 2nd and 4th lines, but I don't think Skinner belongs on the 4th line - he might do some great things with Necas and Svhech.

I still wish we did Pesce for ROR knowing this.

Aho - ROR - TT
Ferland - Staal - Williams
McGinn - Necas - Svech
Zykov/Skinner - Rask - Martinook
PDG

Slavin - Hamilton
CDH - Faulk
Fleury - TVR

Still have options for Skinner.