Confirmed with Link: Canadiens trade for Christian Dvorak for Cond. '22 1st (best but top 10 protected) + '24 2nd Part II

[JianYang]

I don’t know if it was. The KK offer sheet had to have blind sided them but they could have limited that risk by getting a deal done earlier.

I think getting Dvorak was a consequence of the offer sheet and moving on from KK.

I think the risk was so negligible in the first place, but Coyotes GM said a couple days ago that they have been talking about dvorak since the draft.

 

[Archijerej]

Hmm... Nine years or so ago?

Not giving a 1st for anything was pretty much a thing yes. Geezus, we were a steady playoffs team with a Hart-caliber goalie and we were holding on to our 1st like our life depended on it.

So, you're ok with continuing such stupidity?

 

[Archijerej]

I think this was the plan when you start putting the peices together. And I don't mean Dvorak specifically but I'll just use him because they have been talking about him since the draft. That KK offer blindsided everyone in the hockey world, and changed the picture.

You try to cover your blind spots as best you can,and logically speaking, I would have never expected this type of offer to come in for KK, especially from Carolina when you look at that roster.

I agree that was the plan. Habs' interest in Dvorak didn't start last week and Hoffman was certainly not signed to play with Jake Evans.

 

[OnTheRun]

So, you're ok with continuing such stupidity?

No. But it doesn't mean I believe it was the right time to make a face-heel turn on our previous strategy.

 

[Archijerej]

No. But it doesn't mean I believe it was the right time to make a face-heel turn on our previous strategy.

Care to elaborate?

What previous strategy do you have in mind?

 

[OnTheRun]

Care to elaborate?

What previous strategy do you have in mind?

The one where we don't move 1st round pick no matter what.

 

[Archijerej]

The one where we don't move 1st round pick no matter what.

Honestly, I don't care as long as the player they're bringing in is cost-controlled and within the age bracket of Suzuki/Caufield.

The objective is to build a cohesive roster. The method is an entirely secondary question for me. Sometimes it's best done through the draft, sometimes not.

 

[BLONG7]

...He's Danault's replacement, not Kotkaniemi's replacement.

Jake Evans is the guy pegged for a shutdown role....the GM has said this, the coach has said this....

 

[Gabriel Sagala]

I do not know much about Dvorak, According to his stats he always progressed offensively each NHL years
34, 38,44,45 pts ( Calculated in a season of 82 match)

Let's hope it keeps progressing

 

[GrandBison]

Considering draft and development record, Dvorak from 25 yr old to 29 for a 11th is a good trade for Montreal. Let's accept that our management is better with pro scouting than drafting forwards and let's benefit from not being the farm team of the league.

 

[BLONG7]

Considering draft and development record, Dvorak from 25 yr old to 29 for a 11th is a good trade for Montreal. Let's accept that our management is better with pro scouting than drafting forwards and let's benefit from not being the farm team of the league.

Absolutely.....
Our drafting and developing is below average, at best....
Pro scouts for the most part, have been much better...although there have been some real boobs there too, under the Bergevin Administration...

 

[GrandBison]

Absolutely.....
Our drafting and developing is below average, at best....
Pro scouts for the most part, have been much better...although there have been some real boobs there too, under the Bergevin Administration...

You are right, let me exclude all the trade deadline crap from my observation!

 

[jaffy27]

The one where we don't move 1st round pick no matter what.

Then you are not getting a 2nd line center and you become the Sabres as what’s the point of keeping the roster in place.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Poehling is potentially the biggest benefactor of Kotkaniemi leaving.

It's almost now or never for him, I'd love for him to have a good camp and force the coaching staff to use him as the #3C

I'm a big fan of Poehling's overall ability. Love big strong boys that can skate. And I feel his vision is underrated. How is his hockey IQ? He can improve on that I believe. However, I think he fights for the 4C job cause management is high on Evan's 200' game and faceoffs. If he forces his way on the roster, that means he's in beast mode and providing more value that we can expect in his 1st potential full time NHL year.

I think that in the end, he is used for center insurance this season in case of injuries. Or he knocks off Paquette/Perreault for the 4C role. If he pushes Evans down, I'll be impressed. I'm high on him but he needs some time to get comfortable in the NHL. Kind of like how Evans gained momentum last year. I would not say it's now or never. He's on a two way contract in the 1st of his 2 year deal. All he has to do this year is gain momentum from what he did last year in a shorten season.

Having him dominate the AHL while he waits for his shot is not a bad situation. I do believe he's coming into camp knowing the entire narrative I just said and he's coming in hot and ready with lots of energy.

 

[417]

I'm a big fan of Poehling's overall ability. Love big strong boys that can skate. And I feel his vision is underrated. How is his hockey IQ? He can improve on that I believe. However, I think he fights for the 4C job cause management is high on Evan's 200' game and faceoffs. If he forces his way on the roster, that means he's in beast mode and providing more value that we can expect in his 1st potential full time NHL year.

Yeah that's what i'm hoping for and it's not a slight against Evans who i'm pretty high on as well, I think he's can be an excellent 3rd line C and I think the coaching staff has a lot of faith in him too.

I think that in the end, he is used for center insurance this season in case of injuries. Or he knocks off Paquette/Perreault for the 4C role. If he pushes Evans down, I'll be impressed. I'm high on him but he needs some time to get comfortable in the NHL. Kind of like how Evans gained momentum last year. I would not say it's now or never. He's on a two way contract in the 1st of his 2 year deal. All he has to do this year is gain momentum from what he did last year in a shorten season.

Having him dominate the AHL while he waits for his shot is not a bad situation. I do believe he's coming into camp knowing the entire narrative I just said and he's coming in hot and ready with lots of energy.

I just meant in the sense that it's time for him to push for a roster spot, there's a spot to be won if he has a good camp.

It's not quite now or never, but he's turning 23 in January...the time is nigh

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah that's what i'm hoping for and it's not a slight against Evans who i'm pretty high on as well, I think he's can be an excellent 3rd line C and I think the coaching staff has a lot of faith in him too.


I just meant in the sense that it's time for him to push for a roster spot, there's a spot to be won if he has a good camp.

It's not quite now or never, but he's turning 23 in January...the time is nigh

I hope he makes our decision difficult. I do expect him to come in camp ready and this time, he is not taking anything for granted.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Yeah that's what i'm hoping for and it's not a slight against Evans who i'm pretty high on as well, I think he's can be an excellent 3rd line C and I think the coaching staff has a lot of faith in him too.

I said it last year when Danault was still without an extension, that the player the Habs see replace him is Evans. Much more affordable, younger, and has shown that he is good defensively and good on face-offs. We know he's not Danault-level as Phil is a Selke level player. But I think the organization felt like if Phil ain't accepting their offer, they have Evans, who they feel can take that spot.

But despite it all, I'd still love to see Habs either sign Bozak to a PTO for camp or to a one-year deal just to add more center depth. He's an older vet, but he can still put up some production while also being great on the dot. And I just envision a Dvorak, Bozak, and Evans, who are all above 50% on face-offs. It would be a nice change of pace to have them winning more face-offs than losing.

 

[frenchcanayan]

Well no because I would have traded Byron at the deadline as a rental not extend him (easy to know that contract would suck and the player wouldn't perform with it)

and I never would have traded Sergachev for Drouin (red flags abound on Drouin plus Sergachev a premium position player).

When you think logically and have a cohesive vision it's easy to make the right choices.

when you just have to say things on a computer to think you know better than the guy in charge, who does the job for real, makes it easy to think you would make the right choices lol come on

 

[WeThreeKings]

when you just have to say things on a computer to think you know better than the guy in charge, who does the job for real, makes it easy to think you would make the right choices lol come on

Ah yes, defer to the authority. Because so many people in NHL roles are there because of competency and not because of nepotism and archaic beliefs as to what constitutes a successful hockey mind.

Any idiot knew Byron's injury history and production made him a sell high candidate at the deadline. But our idiot extended him and now he can't be traded because the contract is so bad.

 

[Wats]

Yeah that's what i'm hoping for and it's not a slight against Evans who i'm pretty high on as well, I think he's can be an excellent 3rd line C and I think the coaching staff has a lot of faith in him too.


I just meant in the sense that it's time for him to push for a roster spot, there's a spot to be won if he has a good camp.

It's not quite now or never, but he's turning 23 in January...the time is nigh

Unless he absolutely looks like the teams 3rd C (better than Evans/Perrault) feel like Poehling should start first couple months in AHL. Injuries will inevitably hit, it's rare to have a season where no C gets hurt. Hopefully by end of November/mid-December he's proven once and for all he's too good for that league and finishes rest of year with Montreal.

However, feel like Poehling is vulnerable to falling into that 'he's not that much worse than Perrault/Paquette, let's keep him on the starting roster as the 12th/13th forward' trap. A healthy Perrault on 4th line can be very effective as he showed with the Jets. He has already played with Armia and should be an effective line (Lehkonen - Perrault - Armia). Evans has come a long way and has had a really slow path. He has earned his chance as 3rd C and putting Poehling ahead of him without real merit is also not a good look (unless Evans looks awful in camp/overweight/etc).

Barring injury I feel the the Habs 13 forwards should be set, Poehling/rookie would need to be definitely better than replacement player to crack the lineup:

C
Suzuki
Dvorak
Evans
Perrault
extra: Paquette

LW
Toffoli
Hoffman
Drouin
Lehkonen

RW
Gallagher
Caufield
Anderson
Armia

Defense I would go after Jason Demers for league minimum and have 8 D on roster, 4 rh shots and 4 lh shots. Enough with playing young guys on their weak side who are still learning to be NHLers...makes no sense:

RD
Petry
Savard
Demers
extra: Wideman

LD
Edmundson
Chiarot
Romanov
extra: Kulak

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

High talent linemates already ruins this guy's narrative. He played most of his time with guys like Tyler Pitlick, Lawson Crouse, and Christian Fischer.

You're both wrong

NHL Lines Advanced Stats

At ES:

Crouse 246
Pitlick 234.3
Kessel 222.7
Keller 169.2
Fischer 92.9
Caggiula 75
Garland 49.6
Brassard 47.4
Pederson 12.3

 

[Tyson]

#28

 

[frenchcanayan]

Ah yes, defer to the authority. Because so many people in NHL roles are there because of competency and not because of nepotism and archaic beliefs as to what constitutes a successful hockey mind.

Any idiot knew Byron's injury history and production made him a sell high candidate at the deadline. But our idiot extended him and now he can't be traded because the contract is so bad.

Yeah shoulve been you bro… and we woulve gotten 2 second rounder for Byron. But this ruthless world full of archaic demons feeding themselves caviar because of their daddy’s friend. Cruel

 

[angusyoung]

Excluding what will happen in 2-3 is just an excuse to not look at the long term consequences.

Why it changes so much is exactly why that question is more important than what will happen this season. Players get older and they become UFA, or get near retirement, so there's always a need to plan ahead. On top of players souring and wanting to go away. The list is extensive in Montreal in the last 5 years. Radulov, Pacioretty, Danault, Domi, Drouin (still here). Now KK. Dvorak could easily become yet another one, but people are already penciling him in for 10 years even though he has only 3 years and will hit FA afterwards.

You need a turnaround, because thinking only short term will bring another 2018.

Also, a lot of fans, you included, seem to think it's now or never, when we're barely a bubble team. It will become apparent soon enough how misguided it is in trying to compete now.

It will forever be a series of patch up jobs, always missing the prime years to draft high.

Sounds like you're always advocating for a tank season when in your opinion the team will not make the PO's. I have no idea what Molsons agenda truly is pertaining to whether or not winning is top priority or financial maneuvering is. Not saying Habs have the best GM to run a team,but a competent one should be able to make a team competitive rather quickly,it's not rocket science BTW. As for losing KK to an offer sheet and getting Dvorak for picks is well done for the immediate season and down the road. KK was receiving a ludicrous offer that no sane person would match and getting a quality center is an upgrade and cost controlled for a few seasons.

 

[LaP]

High talent linemates already ruins this guy's narrative. He played most of his time with guys like Tyler Pitlick, Lawson Crouse, and Christian Fischer.

The same can be said about JK. It's not like he played with skilled players.