Post-Game Talk: Canadiens @ Rangers - November 25

[Mikos87]

Look I really can't get into the semantics of calling the team with the best defensive record in the league as having the worst defense in decades.

But they fell victim to MTL's pre-scouting. This hockey team under AV has shown the inability to adapt mid-game.

The Rangers needed to play a chip and chase, grind it out hustle hard and hit everything game against that team and they didn't.

MTL is a faster and quicker team than the Rangers top to bottom. The Rangers needed to do what LA did to the Rangers when LA was the bigger and slower team... throw it on the corners, and battle.

The Rangers biggest issue is that they have several players, including some big boys, that don't do that. Looking at Hayes, Nash, Kreider, Yandle and so on.

TB did the same thing, the Rangers lost two games against two of the other ECF finalists the last two years by trying to beat those teams at their own game.

AV needs to be able to implement that change in systems play to be more like Joel Quenville in CHI whose teams can play any which way they need to.

Now I guess you can all reconvene calling the team with the lowest GA in the league as having the worse defense in more than a decade... you know the ones with Redden, Purinton, Bickel and co.

 

[aufheben]

The ones with Redden and Bickel had high (low) GAA as well. I'm pretty sure the most goals the Rangers have given up in Hank's career have been 9th.

 

[eco's bones]

Yikes! I don't wish injury. That sucks for them big time if it's a knee issue.

Well Maloney was going on about how it was some Montreal based tweets he saw. He also mentioned right after that Montreal's not a team that talks much about that kind of stuff and he (Maloney that is) had his doubts.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Stoll and Moore are never going to produce much. Hayes and Lindberg (obviously) are on pace for career highs in production.

I agree Stepan has struggled.

Team is still 4th in scoring despite attempting the 2nd fewest shots in the league. You have to do an awful lot of gymnastics to blame the offense.

I'm talking about offensive play recently. All the offense is coming from four players.

Yeah, its easy to say we didn't play well enough defensively in a game where we give up five goals, but is it not concerning that only one line is putting up points? That leaves so little margin for error offensively.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If you can't recognize that the Goalie has a much bigger impact on the teams GAA than the team in front of him, I don't know what to tell you. Talbot was top-5 in SV% on High Danger shots, are you telling me that's on the Rangers defense too?

Talbot has been terrible in Edmonton. You think its all just a coincidence or might it have something to do with the fact that he had a much better defense with the Rangers?

Somehow ~30 games of Talbot and Raanta is more indicative of our defensive play than 638 games of Lundqvist.

Where are you getting that from? Hank is elite, so the team isn't going to give up a lot of goals, regardless. The discussion is whether or not the defense contributes in a positive way to the extremely low GAA. The GAA with Talbot and Raanta would seem to indicate that it does.

Does no one remember the terrible stretch Talbot had last season before his hot streak?

Staal and Girardi play 5-on-5 like they're penalty killing. I don't like that.

I do remember that stretch, but after the first few games, the team started playing very well. I think it was just a realization that the team needed to play better since Talbot wasn't Hank, and I think they did that.

Staal and Girardi play to their strengths, as do all the defenseman on the team. I don't like that Yandle makes so many risky plays in the defensive zone, but his passing and skating is very good, so thats the type of game that he plays. Just like its part of Staal and Girardi's game to clear the puck as soon as they get it. They are good at defending without the puck, bad with it. You expect your players to play to their strengths.

 

[eco's bones]

Look I really can't get into the semantics of calling the team with the best defensive record in the league as having the worst defense in decades.

But they fell victim to MTL's pre-scouting. This hockey team under AV has shown the inability to adapt mid-game.

The Rangers needed to play a chip and chase, grind it out hustle hard and hit everything game against that team and they didn't.

MTL is a faster and quicker team than the Rangers top to bottom. The Rangers needed to do what LA did to the Rangers when LA was the bigger and slower team... throw it on the corners, and battle.

The Rangers biggest issue is that they have several players, including some big boys, that don't do that. Looking at Hayes, Nash, Kreider, Yandle and so on.

TB did the same thing, the Rangers lost two games against two of the other ECF finalists the last two years by trying to beat those teams at their own game.

AV needs to be able to implement that change in systems play to be more like Joel Quenville in CHI whose teams can play any which way they need to.

Now I guess you can all reconvene calling the team with the lowest GA in the league as having the worse defense in more than a decade... you know the ones with Redden, Purinton, Bickel and co.

Giving up an early goal to Montreal on a really weak play--turning it over in the neutral zone in the middle of a line change had us chasing the game from the get go. Not a good thing. Montreal (like the Rangers) are a team that knows how to play with a lead. Can't afford to have a weak start against them. This team collectively wasn't ready to go when the puck dropped.

 

[aufheben]

It's before they even score. First shift of the game, Girardi falls over himself, turns the puck over, Rangers eventually recover, and he literally just throws the puck right back to the Canadiens. It's not necessarily about letting goals in either, you can't score without the puck, and they just give it to the other team. At least when Yandle ****s up and makes a grievous error he's at least trying to pass to a Ranger.

Talbot has been terrible in Edmonton. You think its all just a coincidence or might it have something to do with the fact that he had a much better defense with the Rangers?

See my previous post about this.

 

[RangersOwnNewYork*]

Look I really can't get into the semantics of calling the team with the best defensive record in the league as having the worst defense in decades.

But they fell victim to MTL's pre-scouting. This hockey team under AV has shown the inability to adapt mid-game.

The Rangers needed to play a chip and chase, grind it out hustle hard and hit everything game against that team and they didn't.

MTL is a faster and quicker team than the Rangers top to bottom. The Rangers needed to do what LA did to the Rangers when LA was the bigger and slower team... throw it on the corners, and battle.

The Rangers biggest issue is that they have several players, including some big boys, that don't do that. Looking at Hayes, Nash, Kreider, Yandle and so on.

TB did the same thing, the Rangers lost two games against two of the other ECF finalists the last two years by trying to beat those teams at their own game.

AV needs to be able to implement that change in systems play to be more like Joel Quenville in CHI whose teams can play any which way they need to.

Now I guess you can all reconvene calling the team with the lowest GA in the league as having the worse defense in more than a decade... you know the ones with Redden, Purinton, Bickel and co.

I don't think AV is going to change anything because he is just too stubborn. The rangers style of play is once again going to win a lot of games this year but it could pose problems if we meet Montreal or Tampa in the playoffs. Between the two I would rather face Tampa.

 

[ltsthinaz]

We got outclassed and embarrassed tonight, largely because we didn't show up again to start the game. It's completely unacceptable to come out that flat in an important game like this, even though it's a November game. We had 11 shots in the first and I think 10 of them were unscreened shots from the blue line. Putrid!

I think we're all over reacting tonight after such a disappointing performance from the whole team, but what's clear to me is that we have too many milk and cookie players, and not enough guys who will get their nose dirty when we need some sort of a spark in these types of games. It makes it look like the entire team is not trying and just accepting the outcome of the game.

I mostly agree. Problem is that too many people want to change half the team every time they have a bad game.

I agree that Staal and Boyle are way past their prime and just can't keep up in speed games, which is why they have trouble with Montreal. But I wouldn't be surprised to see them shore that up at the deadline.

Hayes will improve. I'm not nearly as down on JT Miller as some. Stepan has been non-existent, likewise (almost) Kreider, but I am confident they'll pick it up. Can someone tell Jesper Fast it's OK to score once in awhile?

I like Lindberg a lot. Very skilled. Stalberg is OK as long as he plays 4th line. Would like to give Etem a shot over Stoll, though he hasn't impressed me overly.

And please play McGrath more.

If Staal were traded, I wouldn't cry.

 

[ltsthinaz]

Also - been watching games for over 50 years. Rangers ALWAYS play a stinker before holidays. Maybe they had their turkey dinner before the game instead of tomorrow. They looked awful slow to start the game.

 

[RangersOwnNewYork*]

I mostly agree. Problem is that too many people want to change half the team every time they have a bad game.

I agree that Staal and Boyle are way past their prime and just can't keep up in speed games, which is why they have trouble with Montreal. But I wouldn't be surprised to see them shore that up at the deadline.

Hayes will improve. I'm not nearly as down on JT Miller as some. Stepan has been non-existent, likewise (almost) Kreider, but I am confident they'll pick it up. Can someone tell Jesper Fast it's OK to score once in awhile?

I like Lindberg a lot. Very skilled. Stalberg is OK as long as he plays 4th line. Would like to give Etem a shot over Stoll, though he hasn't impressed me overly.

And please play McGrath more.

If Staal were traded, I wouldn't cry.

I would cry tears of joy.

 

[Cassano]

Boyle does not play like an NHL player anymore. You are putting way too much into match ups. McIlrath is just a better hockey player right now.

Going to have to disagree here. Boyle has NHL level talent at least - although his decision making with the puck has been questionable this season.

 

[Mac n Gs]

This one hurt because I really thought we generated some great momentum in the latter half of the 2nd and were gifted a glorious opportunity to take advantage of Condon coming in cold off the bench.

That second DSP goal was just brutal.

 

[aufheben]

This game puts the Rangers 5-on-5 Scoring Chances +/- at -77.

 

[Graves94]

I mostly agree. Problem is that too many people want to change half the team every time they have a bad game.

I agree that Staal and Boyle are way past their prime and just can't keep up in speed games, which is why they have trouble with Montreal. But I wouldn't be surprised to see them shore that up at the deadline.

Hayes will improve. I'm not nearly as down on JT Miller as some. Stepan has been non-existent, likewise (almost) Kreider, but I am confident they'll pick it up. Can someone tell Jesper Fast it's OK to score once in awhile?

I like Lindberg a lot. Very skilled. Stalberg is OK as long as he plays 4th line. Would like to give Etem a shot over Stoll, though he hasn't impressed me overly.

And please play McGrath more.

If Staal were traded, I wouldn't cry.

My issue is all the slow starts we've been having lately, especially against top teams at home (Nashville and tonight).
I wouldn't rush to trade Staal and/or Girardi, since these are the types of guys who make you win in the playoffs, when the games are tighter checking and every inch of ice is contested.
I would however, look to add a top 6 RW with some grit!

 

[Metranger]

I don't think AV is going to change anything because he is just too stubborn. The rangers style of play is once again going to win a lot of games this year but it could pose problems if we meet Montreal or Tampa in the playoffs. Between the two I would rather face Tampa.

The Rangers will never win the cup with the current version of AV. Which is the same old stubborn mofo. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. I think he has shown that he does not adapt.

 

[eco's bones]

It's before they even score. First shift of the game, Girardi falls over himself, turns the puck over, Rangers eventually recover, and he literally just throws the puck right back to the Canadiens. It's not necessarily about letting goals in either, you can't score without the puck, and they just give it to the other team. At least when Yandle ****s up and makes a grievous error he's at least trying to pass to a Ranger.


See my previous post about this.

So if I'm getting this right--Yandle when he throws the puck away is trying to pass to a teammate and Girardi when he throws it away is deliberately trying to give it to the other team?--so what Girardi is is some kind of mole that the Montreal Canadiens planted on the Rangers so as to sabotage the Rangers quest for the Stanley Cup?

 

[aufheben]

I'm talking about when Girardi lobs it out of the zone like Torts is still behind the bench. Yandle does it, everyone does it. But Girardi does is constantly. He does it multiple times, every single night; his first instinct is always to simply get the puck out of the defensive zone.

 

[eco's bones]

I'm talking about when Girardi lobs it out of the zone like Torts is still behind the bench. Yandle does it, everyone does it. But Girardi does is constantly. He does it multiple times, every single night; his first instinct is always to simply get the puck out of the defensive zone.

I use to play defense. Sometimes you make the safe play. Even if it turns over in the neutral zone most of the time it allows your teammates to re-set.

 

[Inferno]

I didn't see much difference in this game from many others this season...except Montreal made us pay for our horrible play and Henrik wasnt able to God us to victory.

 

[ltsthinaz]

My issue is all the slow starts we've been having lately, especially against top teams at home (Nashville and tonight).
I wouldn't rush to trade Staal and/or Girardi, since these are the types of guys who make you win in the playoffs, when the games are tighter checking and every inch of ice is contested.
I would however, look to add a top 6 RW with some grit!

I think Girardi's pluses outweigh his minuses. Not so for Staal. Maybe Carolina will overpay for him????????

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

That was really bad. It made me sad.

 

[aufheben]

I didn't see much difference in this game from many others this season...except Montreal made us pay for our horrible play and Henrik wasnt able to God us to victory.

They're the best team in the Conference and will burn you if you give them the opportunity. The game against Nashville was a ****-show too.

FYI the -77 in 5-on-5 scoring chances is last in the NHL. That's not a defense-specific stat but it's still gross.

 

[Inferno]

They're the best team in the Conference and will burn you if you give them the opportunity. The game against Nashville was a ****-show too.

FYI the -77 in 5-on-5 scoring chances is last in the NHL. That's not a defense-specific stat but it's still gross.

ive been very concerned about this team for a while....

i am encouraged that MCD, the top line and Henrik are playing so well...but thats 5 players on a roster of 23...

so many passengers this season.

our record, imho, is completely masking just how poorly we've played.

 

[Revel]

Just want to post some random stats from the game today. Truly awful is the Giveaways.

We had 17 Giveaways

17

Is it me or is that number extremely high?

These numbers, IMO, are also notoriously under-recorded. For instance, Boyle is listed as having committed only 1 turnover, and I remember clear as day a turnover behind the net on the PP and another one in the third where he put the puck right on a Canadien's stick. Klingberg in yesterday's Stars game was listed as having 1, and I specifically recall 3.

God knows how many turnovers we truly had tonight.

Staal is listed as having given the puck away 3 times. Not good. Funny though, I looked up the Giveaways per 60 this year for all of our defenseman, and Staal is by far the least turnover prone. He was averaging about 0.82 turnovers per 60 coming into the game and the next best had been Klein, who was 1.3 something. Yandle and McD were by far the highest, but that's expected, as they try and move the puck more often via stretch pass, etc...

We had 7 Takeaways. Of those 7, 3 were Lindberg's and 2 were Zuuc's. Neither Lindberg or Zuuc committed a Giveaway. Not bad.

~End of useless stats post~