News Article: Canadiens are betting the house on Marc Bergevin and Claude Julien

[Lafleurs Guy]

You really think I'm going to let you post that and not push back. So he picked blueliners most often. Okay, where are these blueliners on the big team? Last night there was not one defencemen playing on the Habs that was drafted by Timmins. If we didn't have any injuries, Timmins would have placed one d-man on the squad, the seriously flawed Victor Mete. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Timmins's drafting abilities when it comes to his drafting strength - defencemen.

Hilarious that you start your post with: You really think I’m going to let you post this and not push back... and then proceed to ask why we don’t have any drafted blueliners in the lineup? You gotta be kidding man.

We don’t have those blueliners because they were traded away.

Subban, McD, Sergachev, Beau, Emelin... waiting on Romanov.

 

[montreal]

You really think I'm going to let you post that and not push back. So he picked blueliners most often. Okay, where are these blueliners on the big team? Last night there was not one defencemen playing on the Habs that was drafted by Timmins. If we didn't have any injuries, Timmins would have placed one d-man on the squad, the seriously flawed Victor Mete. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Timmins's drafting abilities when it comes to his drafting strength - defencemen.

Sergachev looks very good, Subban was a great pick, McDonagh was a great pick, Mete is a 4th round pick that if not for injuries would be pushing 200 NHL games by the age of 21. Beaulieu, Tinordi, Yannick Weber, Fleury, all played in the NHL this year. Emelin was a very solid pick. Juulsen likely plays in the NHL this year if not for injuries, if he can stay healthy he should be a solid NHLer imo.

 

[Kriss E]

What does dropping out of high school have to do with anything!!!!????


Why don’t you explain to us tte circumstances that led to him dropping out??....how did it all go down??

what school did he drop out from??

like enough.....the fact that you’re trying to link dropping out of school with success is laughable.

I agree I don't think school matters all that much here, that said, he's clearly an imbecile.

 

[CalgarySnow]

Come on jaffy27, having a guy running the team who does not even have a high school education, is not a very good idea. The results are in, and it's not...who knows why he left school, to play hockey probably, but most of the kids that do that still continue their education.
MB has proven to be as dumb as a bag of hammers, no one can dispute that, and since most of his counterparts are educated, with thought and planning going into their thought process, puts our guy at a real disadvantage.
The bottom line here, is we have had ZERO results with a guy who seems to struggle at best with building a team. His hockey experience has not helped him whatsoever. It shows...his communication skills are beyond bad...

Just because he doesn’t have a high school diploma doesn’t make you stupid, you sound like my friends who look down on me because I don’t have a degree (despite the fact they are doing the same job and often not as well). Richard Branson left school without any exams (I, at least, got 2) but look at him now. That being said I think Bergevin is a fool and has absolutely no common sense to save his life but he is earning millions doing said crap job so whose the fools?

Gallagher, I think, developed himself as he’s been told his whole career he isn’t going to make it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I agree I don't think school matters all that much here, that said, he's clearly an imbecile.

Yes, his level of formal education is irrelevant. And it’s not really fair to call him a ‘drop out’ either. He left school so he could make millions in the NHL. That’s not a hard call to make.

He’s a terrible GM but that has nothing to do with his schooling.

 

[Kriss E]

Yes, his level of formal education is irrelevant. And it’s not really fair to call him a ‘drop out’ either. He left school so he could make millions in the NHL. That’s not a hard call to make.

He’s a terrible GM but that has nothing to do with his schooling.

Yes, I call him an imbecile because of how he speaks publicly. He just sounds like a dumb typical jock.

 

[jaffy27]

Just because he doesn’t have a high school diploma doesn’t make you stupid, you sound like my friends who look down on me because I don’t have a degree (despite the fact they are doing the same job and often not as well). Richard Branson left school without any exams (I, at least, got 2) but look at him now. That being said I think Bergevin is a fool and has absolutely no common sense to save his life but he is earning millions doing said crap job so whose the fools?

Gallagher, I think, developed himself as he’s been told his whole career he isn’t going to make it.

My very good friend/hunting partner is worth well over 100$m and guess what....never finished high school.....it’s why I laugh at posters when they try to link the two.

You wanna call Bergevin an idiot, have at her, but to use the whole “dropout” theme like he was some sort of burnout is cheap

(my last paragraph has NOTHING to do with what you’ve ever said lol)

 

[CHwest]

Yes, I call him an imbecile because of how he speaks publicly. He just sounds like a dumb typical jock.

Maybe Molson likes him because he makes Molson feel smart.

 

[montreal]

Except the Habs fired all their development coaches in Laval almost two years ago. We got a whole new bunch of coaches down there. In another two years if our prospects keep falling to the garbage dump can we start thinking about firing Timmins or will it be the fault of Lapointe and Ramage.

Also this narrative of blaming the development team is off the mark. Most of Timmins's picks never make it as far as the AHL. I'll select one year and show you that Timmins' picks were "ruined" before even the ogre Lefebvre had a chance to steal their future from them. Let's look at the 2012 draft picks.

That's one year. You look through the following years and it's the same damn thing. Very, very few picks land in the hands of our AHL coaches. Now is that a development problem or a scouting staff that doesn't know their rear end from a hockey stick?

You picked one of the worst drafts the NHL has seen since '99, this link will show how bad it is,

2012 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

'13 - all 8 draft picks are/were in the AHL or NHL (7 AHL/1 NHL)

'14 - all 6 picks played in the ECHL or AHL, 2 in the ECHL, 4 in the AHL. the one ECHLer is in his rookie year and the other retired from hockey, a 5th round pick

'15 - all 5 picks played in the AHL

'16 - 4 of the 6 played in the AHL or NHL, the other 2 are in the NCAA currently (3 AHL/1 NHL)

'17 - 4 of the 7 are in the AHL, 1 of the 3 is out for the season in Liiga, 1 in in the WHL and 1 is in CIS.

 

[BeliveauFan4ever]

My very good friend/hunting partner is worth well over 100$m and guess what....never finished high school.....it’s why I laugh at posters when they try to link the two.

You wanna call Bergevin an idiot, have at her, but to use the whole “dropout” theme like he was some sort of burnout is cheap

(my last paragraph has NOTHING to do with what you’ve ever said lol)

He probably isn’t (even) an idiot. He’s just struggled in the role of GM of the Montreal Canadiens.

Some others before him did as well.

All things considered, the job really does call for a top-flight hockey mind - and a staff to match.

Middlin’ performances get even less than middlin’ results.

 

[The Great Weal]

You really think I'm going to let you post that and not push back. So he picked blueliners most often. Okay, where are these blueliners on the big team? Last night there was not one defencemen playing on the Habs that was drafted by Timmins. If we didn't have any injuries, Timmins would have placed one d-man on the squad, the seriously flawed Victor Mete. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Timmins's drafting abilities when it comes to his drafting strength - defencemen.

Timmins is so good at drafting dmen, that with 2 3rd overall picks, he decided to draft shit for brains Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi who has serious skating problems instead of franchise dman Quinn Hughes and #1 dman Morgan Rielly. I'm sure that's on everyone else but him though.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Timmins is so good at drafting dmen, that with 2 3rd overall picks, he decided to draft shit for brains Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi who has serious skating problems instead of franchise dman Quinn Hughes and #1 dman Morgan Rielly. I'm sure that's on everyone else but him though.

you should try getting over your Timmins obsession. it's not healthy.

 

[TopTenPlayz]

MB's biggest mistake is clearly not stepping down as it would have fired up the fan base just to not have him around any more.

But I don't see Timmins as the biggest problem, not when he drafts guys like Pac, Price, Subban, Sergachev, McDonagh, Gallgaher, plus lots of NHLers like Halak, Streit, Emelin, Leks, DLR, Chipchura and a current very deep farm system.

Like I've said before, in 17 years at the helm, Timmins got us 4 impact players: Price, Mcdonagh, Pacio, Subban. A very good player 50-60 pts player in Gallagher. Halak was mostly a backup except for a one or two seasons in St-Louis. Streit was a 3rd pairing guy and a PP specialist. Emelin was normally a 3rd pairing guy on a good team. Leks is a 20-30 pts player. DLR is a 4th line player and may be on his last strides in the NHL. Chipchura was a 4th line center his entire career. Should I keep going on? I understand the "value" of drafting a guy who plays 400 career games in the 4th round. Whoopidy doo. For me, that doesn't reflect on the abilities of a scout. Good scouts find elite talent consistently. Period. Hockey, like in any sport, relies on your best players to win. We could have a team with the best role players but we won't win crap if our best players aren't good enough. I don't care if Timmins hasn't had many top picks in the 1st round or had a ton of 2nd round picks. He's had 17 years to build this team. And all he's got to show is Price, Mcdonagh, Pacioretty, and Subban. That's simply not good enough.

That said clearly he's made too many mistakes drafting forwards and in the 1st round. What Kotka and Caufield turn into could help there but the system is heavily loaded towards D prospects so unless they find some gems at forward in June he's likely going to continue to have major knocks against his drafting of forwards.

I don't think his drafting of d-men is good either. Among all his drafted d-men what played regularly in the NHL: I'll give him props for drafting Subban and Mcdonagh. On the other hand, Emelin, Streit, Beaulieu, Y Weber, O'Byrne are nothing special. They can be replaced by any other free agent every summer. Sergachev is playing better and better. Let's wait and see.

you can't really get too focused on the '17, '18 guys just yet. It's indeed looking very concerning for Poehling (though he has been handled terribly once again) and Brook has been a major disappointment though he's playing his best hockey to date as a pro.

Ikonen can't stay healthy so we have to wait and see there, it's not the scouts fault there as I don't recall him having any injury history before being drafted. Fleury we'll see what he turns into. Kotka last year fans were over the moon as well on draft day, so we'll see how it goes for him.

Romanov crushed it at the WJC's again and should be here in the Fall. Primeau after being the top goalie in the NCAA at 19 has had a good year in the AHL, Caufield one of the best goal scorers in the NCAA.

Just as Sergachev continues to look like a very good pick, Leks the 2nd highest scorer in the 2nd round of 2013. Pac is having a career year. Tinordi might finally be able to stick in the NHL.

Clearly Timmins can find NHL players, the problem is he needs to find better ones and more forwards.

As for the trade I don't know how that went down, I'm certain he would be consulted on the Pac trade since he would have scouted Suzuki the year before especially since he was teammates with one of our prospects in McNiven. We know he wasn't happy when McDonagh got traded and he wasn't made aware so I don't know what GM's do if they consult the others like Scott Mellanby, Timmins or not.

It's the same thing that we don't know if MB says to Timmins in '13 we need to draft bigger players after bringing in his buddy Churla that year. There's lots of unknowns as to what goes on, who gets credit for what, who gets blame. At the end of the day everyone in the organization needs to do a better job or we wouldn't be in this mess.

I keep saying the same thing, first move is hire a real president and get a new GM, then go from there. If the new GM cleans house then so be it. (though I hope they keep the new Swedish scout to see if he's legit or not)

I'm legitimately concerned with his '17 and '18 picks. Like I mentioned in my previous post, there are so many disappointments and unknowns with these players so far. To be honest, I got zero faith left in Timmins. I'd rather have you or I make the picks and I'm 100% sure we'll make better picks than Timmins. I'm sure that we have the fewest impact players drafted in the entire NHL since 2003. And no, it's not because of the lack of top picks or 2nd round picks, good scouts are able to find impact players consistently. The law of the averages should prevail over a span of 17 years. He should have gotten us a lot more impact players. Thing is, Timmins is not average, he's terrible. If other teams change scouts, why can't we? What has he done for this team to merit keeping his job?

 

[Habs Icing]

Sergachev looks very good, Subban was a great pick, McDonagh was a great pick, Mete is a 4th round pick that if not for injuries would be pushing 200 NHL games by the age of 21. Beaulieu, Tinordi, Yannick Weber, Fleury, all played in the NHL this year. Emelin was a very solid pick. Juulsen likely plays in the NHL this year if not for injuries, if he can stay healthy he should be a solid NHLer imo.

He has been at his job for 17 years. Let's not count the last three years because the jury is still out on those picks. So in 14 years, we excuse his lack of success with forwards by claiming he is great at picking d-men and goalies. But in 14 years he has had hits with Sergachev, PK and McDonagh with the d-men and Price and Halak with the goalies. Everyone else you named are either too early to judge (Fleury), dime-a-dozen players (Mete, Beaulieu, Weber) or really, you want to mention them (Tinordi).

In 14 years he selected 5 impactful players among d-men and goalies and 7 in all if you include forwards (Patches & Gally). I don't include Galchenyuk and Kostitsyn for two reasons: 1) they really had no impact and 2) they were extremely high picks and TT soiled the bed with those selections but I'm more upset with the Kostitsyn pick because that was a fantastic draft year and TT left on the table a bevy of far superior players.

The very best that can be said for TT is he has an average record. That's the very best you can say but personally I think that's overvaluing his work. And this post is coming from someone who had huge disagreements with @Whitesnake about TT until very recently.

I want MB gone because he doesn't know how to build a winning team but MB has a better record as a GM than TT has as a director of scouting. That's how bad I think TT has been for the Habs.

 

[Whitesnake]

He has been at his job for 17 years. Let's not count the last three years because the jury is still out on those picks. So in 14 years, we excuse his lack of success with forwards by claiming he is great at picking d-men and goalies. But in 14 years he has had hits with Sergachev, PK and McDonagh with the d-men and Price and Halak with the goalies. Everyone else you named are either too early to judge (Fleury), dime-a-dozen players (Mete, Beaulieu, Weber) or really, you want to mention them (Tinordi).

In 14 years he selected 5 impactful players among d-men and goalies and 7 in all if you include forwards (Patches & Gally). I don't include Galchenyuk and Kostitsyn for two reasons: 1) they really had no impact and 2) they were extremely high picks and TT soiled the bed with those selections but I'm more upset with the Kostitsyn pick because that was a fantastic draft year and TT left on the table a bevy of far superior players.

The very best that can be said for TT is he has an average record. That's the very best you can say but personally I think that's overvaluing his work. And this post is coming from someone who had huge disagreements with @Whitesnake about TT until very recently.

I want MB gone because he doesn't know how to build a winning team but MB has a better record as a GM than TT has as a director of scouting. That's how bad I think TT has been for the Habs.

I do not remember that.

 

[BLONG7]

Just because he doesn’t have a high school diploma doesn’t make you stupid, you sound like my friends who look down on me because I don’t have a degree (despite the fact they are doing the same job and often not as well). Richard Branson left school without any exams (I, at least, got 2) but look at him now. That being said I think Bergevin is a fool and has absolutely no common sense to save his life but he is earning millions doing said crap job so whose the fools?

Gallagher, I think, developed himself as he’s been told his whole career he isn’t going to make it.

Not looking down on anyone............our GM is as dumb as dumb can be, has no education and has been a disaster............been saying for FIVE years now, he is in over his head. And the results are the proof.

 

[Habs Icing]

I do not remember that.

That's because you were right and you're not the I-told-you-so kinda guy.

 

[Whitesnake]

That's because you were right and you're not the I-told-you-so kinda guy.

Sometimes I might be...but I have no problem admitting also when I'm wrong.

 

[sampollock]

i bet on corona virus

 

[montreal]

Like I've said before, in 17 years at the helm, Timmins got us 4 impact players: Price, Mcdonagh, Pacio, Subban. A very good player 50-60 pts player in Gallagher. Halak was mostly a backup except for a one or two seasons in St-Louis. Streit was a 3rd pairing guy and a PP specialist. Emelin was normally a 3rd pairing guy on a good team. Leks is a 20-30 pts player. DLR is a 4th line player and may be on his last strides in the NHL. Chipchura was a 4th line center his entire career. Should I keep going on? I understand the "value" of drafting a guy who plays 400 career games in the 4th round. Whoopidy doo. For me, that doesn't reflect on the abilities of a scout. Good scouts find elite talent consistently. Period. Hockey, like in any sport, relies on your best players to win. We could have a team with the best role players but we won't win crap if our best players aren't good enough. I don't care if Timmins hasn't had many top picks in the 1st round or had a ton of 2nd round picks. He's had 17 years to build this team. And all he's got to show is Price, Mcdonagh, Pacioretty, and Subban. That's simply not good enough.



I don't think his drafting of d-men is good either. Among all his drafted d-men what played regularly in the NHL: I'll give him props for drafting Subban and Mcdonagh. On the other hand, Emelin, Streit, Beaulieu, Y Weber, O'Byrne are nothing special. They can be replaced by any other free agent every summer. Sergachev is playing better and better. Let's wait and see.



I'm legitimately concerned with his '17 and '18 picks. Like I mentioned in my previous post, there are so many disappointments and unknowns with these players so far. To be honest, I got zero faith left in Timmins. I'd rather have you or I make the picks and I'm 100% sure we'll make better picks than Timmins. I'm sure that we have the fewest impact players drafted in the entire NHL since 2003. And no, it's not because of the lack of top picks or 2nd round picks, good scouts are able to find impact players consistently. The law of the averages should prevail over a span of 17 years. He should have gotten us a lot more impact players. Thing is, Timmins is not average, he's terrible. If other teams change scouts, why can't we? What has he done for this team to merit keeping his job?

Clearly he needs to do a better job but to me he's not the biggest issue, Molson and MB are, replace them and go from there.

You might not be impressed with his list of defensemen but how many teams have drafted more then 1 top pairing D outside of the top 10.

As for not having faith his '17 and '18 picks that means nothing though since no one knows what these players will turn into. We shouldn't expect that much from '17 considering we picked late in the 1st but he should easily end up with at least 3 NHLers which is more then you should expect from an average year.

He has been at his job for 17 years. Let's not count the last three years because the jury is still out on those picks. So in 14 years, we excuse his lack of success with forwards by claiming he is great at picking d-men and goalies. But in 14 years he has had hits with Sergachev, PK and McDonagh with the d-men and Price and Halak with the goalies. Everyone else you named are either too early to judge (Fleury), dime-a-dozen players (Mete, Beaulieu, Weber) or really, you want to mention them (Tinordi).

In 14 years he selected 5 impactful players among d-men and goalies and 7 in all if you include forwards (Patches & Gally). I don't include Galchenyuk and Kostitsyn for two reasons: 1) they really had no impact and 2) they were extremely high picks and TT soiled the bed with those selections but I'm more upset with the Kostitsyn pick because that was a fantastic draft year and TT left on the table a bevy of far superior players

people see what they want to see, you posted about his picks not even making the AHL and I clearly showed that was false just going from the drafts after the terrible draft of 2012.

Galchenyuk scoring 30 goals, Kostitsyn putting up 3 20 goal seasons is not nothing, just made much worse by the fact that it was the best draft in modern times.

Clearly his strength is more at finding NHLers and less at finding high end talent. He's had 4 top 10 picks with us, one was considered the best player in the league one year, another looking very good on TB and still very young, one scored 30 goals and was looking good for several years despite being poorly handled and the last one time will tell what he turns into. He could have done better there but his problems are more with later 1st round picks which isn't that far fetched since the numbers on finding success with picks outside the top 10, 15, 20, etc.. drop vastly the further you go out.

So he hasn't been put in a great spot as say other teams that get 8, 9, 10 top 10 picks over the same span as his. If Kotka busts that's certainly going to make things look much worse for him but I don't think he will bust and we'll see what he does in the coming years.

 

[Hockey POTUS]

Maybe Molson likes him because he makes Molson feel smart.

Other GM's like him for the same reason.

 

[justafan22]

What now?

 

[The Great Weal]

What now?

"Its hard to make the playoffs after a 3 week break because of rust and if we had made the playoffs, anything could have happened"

 

[paddy]

My very good friend/hunting partner is worth well over 100$m and guess what....never finished high school.....it’s why I laugh at posters when they try to link the two.

You wanna call Bergevin an idiot, have at her, but to use the whole “dropout” theme like he was some sort of burnout is cheap

(my last paragraph has NOTHING to do with what you’ve ever said lol)

Just like dropping out of school or not is not related to intelligence, making a lot of money isn't either.

 

[swimmer77]

I'm sure it has been suggested that MB can add COVID-19 to the list of excuses for this year's failure. I mean the Habs were about to go on a tremendous winning streak to offset those 8 game losing streaks, right?