Can we please trade Gardiner now?

[BlueForever75]

Here's a simple question for you. There's a minute left in the game and the Leafs are up by a goal trying to defend the lead for the win. Is Gardiner your first choice to put on the ice to defend that lead? I'm betting that would be HELL NO unless you don't have a choice. IE you're trying to get him off the ice, but there's an icing and you're forced to keep him on.

Also if Gards is so good defensively then why do you rarely see him killing penalties unless its at the tail end? You would think that with his great puck moving abilities that he'd be able to use that skill in getting the puck out of the defensive zone while killing penalties yet Babs rarely ever use Gards on the PK for that and why do you think that is?? The bottom line is you can quote whatever stats you like to try and prove Jake is a good Dman, but the point is when the game is on the line and we need to defend a lead, Gards is the practically LAST player Babs will choose for that job and for good reason.

And let me ask you, who is depended on in those situations in order. I will help:

1)Muzzin
2)Hainsey
3)Reilly
4)Zaitsev
5)Dermott
6)Gardiner

And when its time for PK

1)Muzzin
2)Hainsey
3)Zaitsev
4)Reilly
5)Dermott
6)Gardiner

Should tell you all something that is making Gardiner to be the do all end all. The guy is horrible. He's not even on the first PP anymore with how its used.

Hence why you trade him cause Dermott and him are the same player and utilized the same. No loss with him off the team.

 

[drewjenks]

I see no benefit to having him on our roster. None whatsoever.

Please Dubas deal him to the highest bidder. If no offers, waive him.

Bring up Rosen. Bring up Sandin. Bring up Borgman. I Don’t care.

Does this man think we'd have to "waive" Gardiner to move him ...... ?

 

[rumman]

I would like to get something for Gardiner but now our options are probably limited.

It would probably have to be a playoff team although Florida has collected Brassard most likely to trade him again.

A Pysyk + a pick from Florida so they can trade him at the deadline might work.

I think Jake would command a wee bigger return than that package to a playoff team that need some offense from their D.

 

[topched]

And let me ask you, who is depended on in those situations in order. I will help:

1)Muzzin
2)Hainsey
3)Reilly
4)Zaitsev
5)Dermott
6)Gardiner

And when its time for PK

1)Muzzin
2)Hainsey
3)Zaitsev
4)Reilly
5)Dermott
6)Gardiner

Should tell you all something that is making Gardiner to be the do all end all. The guy is horrible. He's not even on the first PP anymore with how its used.

Hence why you trade him cause Dermott and him are the same player and utilized the same. No loss with him off the team.

Lol look at actual usage my friend, not some made up dependability that came from your mind.

Also look at actual possession, zone entry and zone exit stats. The leafs so far this year on overall effectiveness goes:

Rielly
Gardiner

Dermott








Hainsey
Zaitsev

Just because Babs seems to love his little “defensive” toys doesn’t mean that it’s right either. Check out Hainsey and Zaitsevs numbers when they’re not paired with Rielly and Gardiner, they quickly become borderline NHL dmen. Both those guys general strategy for exiting the zone is a choice between “pass it to Morgan/Gards” or off the glass and down the ice.

Seriously, your eye test is failing you hard. Gardiner is essential to this team contending, offensively and defensively.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Feelings from watching a player play will undoubtedly trump "player stats" that are in actuality dependent upon 5 other players on the ice. One uses the absolute best asset to judge a player (eyes) while the other closes them and uses a team stat. But we'll pretend that thousands of Leafs fans collectively threw a dart at a dart board composed of Leafs player's faces and they all hit on Gards to be their whipping boy! Sounds more plausible.

So what you're saying is, you study what he does and pick out every little thing you don't like and completely ignore anything else going on. Just so you can think you're right.
Got it.

 

[Trapper]

I think Jake would command a wee bigger return than that package to a playoff team that need some offense from their D.

Need to be careful on salary coming back.
If we can get a young PWF who could be ready when Marleau is done in a another year I’m all for that.
Pittsburgh picked up size and solid defensive C in Bjugstad/McCann.

We need a PWF and a 4C with D, speed and grit would be great.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Here's a simple question for you. There's a minute left in the game and the Leafs are up by a goal trying to defend the lead for the win. Is Gardiner your first choice to put on the ice to defend that lead? I'm betting that would be HELL NO unless you don't have a choice. IE you're trying to get him off the ice, but there's an icing and you're forced to keep him on.

Also if Gards is so good defensively then why do you rarely see him killing penalties unless its at the tail end? You would think that with his great puck moving abilities that he'd be able to use that skill in getting the puck out of the defensive zone while killing penalties yet Babs rarely ever use Gards on the PK for that and why do you think that is?? The bottom line is you can quote whatever stats you like to try and prove Jake is a good Dman, but the point is when the game is on the line and we need to defend a lead, Gards is the practically LAST player Babs will choose for that job and for good reason.

Marincin was an outstanding penalty killer.

 

[ChurchOfMatthews]

Good player. Could be a lot better. Perhaps an All-Star type defenceman.

That's the sad part, with a little testosterone and smarts he could be. Unfortunately that's not something you can ever teach.

 

[thewave]

Jake's an awesome defender. He hasn't had a good partner in a while and gets all the blame sadly. Since the booing he has been pretty sloppy and he should be traded now; but only because you people that think he sucks booed him out of town. I just doubt he will regain composure by the PO and so he can go to another PO team and will probably do well. We would then have to find a player with 2 years like Muzzin.

 

[freewilly]

People only see his giveaways and don't realize the value of his overall game. 50 point defensemen like him are not easily replaceable, and outside of the giveaways and inconsistent defensive play he is a very good player. Before this season he was more often than not better than Rielly.

lol? seems like giveaways and inconsistent defensive play, from a defenceman, might make it difficult to be a very good player

 

[topched]

lol? seems like giveaways and inconsistent defensive play, from a defenceman, might make it difficult to be a very good player

I challenge you to look up the top dmen in giveaways over the last 5 years. Multiple Norris winners on those lists.

To give the puck away you need to have it. Jake has it a lot. He makes a high number of giveaways because he has a high opportunity to make plays. Also doesn’t help that he has a borderline NHL d partner slinging him grenades on the regular because he cant exit the zone on his own.

It’s funny because Kings fans had the same complaints about Muzzin making “boneheaded” giveaways. Funny how his perception of being a steady dman has prevailed here. Truth is Gards is a very good (not elite) dman who has drawn the ire of “omg eye test” fans due to the amount of time he’s been with the team and nothing else.

If the leafs made him available the price would be as high as we paid for Muzzin. He’ll sign for 6M+ this offseason as well.

 

[freewilly]

And what about "inconsistent defensive play"? What about his mistakes more often than not coming at the most inopportune moments?

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

Split up Gardiner-Zaitsev. If Hainsey was good enough for the 1st pairing how isn't he an option for the 2nd?
Gardiner-Dermott is the dream

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Folks Gards is a centre playing defense. Always has been always will be. No amount of re-training is going to fix the defensive issues. He was ingrained as a kid and loved to skate with puck and make plays as a centre. He does not think game as a defender. This experiment to make him a defense because he is BIG and FAST and SKILLED is over. Anaheim thought so too a long time ago. If you don't believe me ask yourself when was last time you saw Gards block a shot on purpose?

Now it is highly unlikely he will be traded because we are terribly weak on defense depth. Dermott is going to be a 2nd pairing guy but he is not quite ready yet. And we need a backup if Rielly takes 1 on the beak and is out for season. Gards is Rielly's backup for this years cup run. That is it bottom line. We have 6 Cup shots now and this playoffs is the first one. The cards have been dealt now. We all need to get onboard. In fact we need at least 1 more defensive defender and to be safe 2. Injuries are reality for true NHL defenders (not as much for run and gunners). We need to trade 1 of Kappy or AJ for another dman who can replace Z.

I hate to do it but reality is 1 is going to have to go for CAP reasons unless some crazy Marleau deal can happen. I hope so but I would not bet my money on it.

 

[topched]

And what about "inconsistent defensive play"? What about his mistakes more often than not coming at the most inopportune moments?

Once again, look at concrete evidence.

This is a narrative being peddled only by eye test folks with a decency bias for game 7 last year. Otherwise Jake has been a very good playoff performer.

Again, any high usage, high possession dman with a bad partner is gonna ‘feel’ like he makes mistakes especially because some of those mistakes end up in the back of the net.

Look at the players alongside Gardiner and then with some of our other Dman. Truth is he has way more positive plays on the ledger than negative.

 

[thewave]

Split up Gardiner-Zaitsev. If Hainsey was good enough for the 1st pairing how isn't he an option for the 2nd?
Gardiner-Dermott is the dream

Because they paid big for Z and he has a long term deal. The optics would be terrible and so they don't do it.

 

[Albi34]

I've defended Gardiner over the years but honestly I'm pretty much done with it. For what he's going to cost, he is infuriating to watch. Show me all the stats in the world I don't care. Every single game I see a play and think "who the hell just blew that coverage so badly? Oh it was Gardiner again." Trade him and get a nice little piece back and save some $.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

Because they paid big for Z and he has a long term deal. The optics would be terrible and so they don't do it.

He looks terrible anyways so why make our team worse because of that? Maybe he'd be better on the 3rd pair with Dermott.

 

[thewave]

He looks terrible anyways so why make our team worse because of that? Maybe he'd be better on the 3rd pair with Dermott.

Probably but... Pride and all that. Perhaps Babcock was the guy in love with Z (probably)

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

Probably but... Pride and all that. Perhaps Babcock was the guy in love with Z (probably)

Honestly we got rid of Phaneuf somehow so there's always hope we can get rid of Z. I love Gards but he's not getting traded because he makes our team better for this years run at the cup. He's gone in UFA though.

 

[topched]

Probably but... Pride and all that. Perhaps Babcock was the guy in love with Z (probably)

It has nothing to do with contracts, pride etc.

It’s 100% Babcock likes Zaitsev. He’s commented multiple times about his ability to stop the cycle. Which I think he’s better at than most dmen on the team.

Unfortunately his lack of puck skills, passing and general awareness outweighs it by a large margin.

As the only righty on the roster in a tight market, Zaitsev is on the team now. I expect he’ll be moved for whatever we can get in the offseason. There are cheaper dmen that can be had who provide the same or better value.

 

[Bluelines]

We may need him for the playoffs.

Hopefully he doesn't give us another game 7 performance.

Smart thinking, we can use him as our scapegoat...

 

[mulefarm]

Gardiner was never a center. Played wing up until draft year.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Gardiner was never a center. Played wing up until draft year.

Not true he played centre from time he was 5. He was voted top centre in high school in Minny vote.

 

[Romkey]

2nd best?

Ya more like 4th best. I have Muzzin and Dermott ahead of him