Can we now finally retire Kolzig and Bondra's numbers?

[CapitalsCupReality]

I also like a ring of honor-type idea.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

In February the Devils will retire Patrik Elias's number, now there is obviously some notable difference between him and Bondra/Kolzig (whole career with the team, 2 Cup wins) but if you get down to just his numbers he certainly isn't a HOF guy. He posted more points that Bondra (he also played longer) but his only real individual accomplishments are 5 ASG appearances. Elias is to me what Bondra/Kolzig is, he meant more to the club then the stats really can tell, to me that's what number retirement is for. The HOF is for recognizing the all time legends, number retirement is for recognizing guys who meant the world to their club.



Also fun random trivia fact, Ollie Kolzig is the only player to wear all 3 incarnations of the logo the Caps have had.

 

[Hivemind]

In terms of other 2017-18 number retirees, Milan Hejduk stands out as an even better example than Elias. Hejduk was certainly a very good player, won a Stanley Cup, and won a Rocket Richard. But he's clearly behind Bondra in terms of individual performance and value to his franchise. Hejduk was never better than the 3rd best forward on the Avalanche, while Bonzai was the Caps offense for essentially his entire tenure in DC.

Granted, the Avalanche are also the franchise that retired Raymond Bourque's number for 1.25 years of play in Colorado.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don’t have number retirement and HHOF with the same possible set of achievements required personally.

There’s retire my # for a club, then there’s another level for the HHOF, for me at least.

The # retirement can be MUCH more about the community IMO, what they did for the club and charity work. BOTH off and on ice matters here IMO. Kolzig we know did a ton, I’m guessing Bondra too, I just don’t recall right now.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

I don’t have number retirement and HHOF with the same possible set of achievements required personally.

There’s retire my # for a club, then there’s another level for the HHOF, for me at least.

The # retirement can be MUCH more about the community IMO, what they did for the club and charity work. BOTH off and on ice matters here IMO. Kolzig we know did a ton, I’m guessing Bondra too, I just don’t recall right now.

Bondra is pretty involved now, he was pretty instrumental in all of that great stuff with the Caps and bringing Fatima Al Ali over from the UAE, and he's in charge of the Capitals alumni affairs. He also apparently is involved with a charity golf game in Slovakia that benefits disabled children.

 

[Devil Dancer]

I really don't understand where the bar is if you're saying Bondra is low standards. Bondra isn't a HOFer, but his resume certainly lends itself to at least the argument.

I mean hell, if you have Backstrom barely making it I'm not really certain what you want. When all is said and done Ovechkin and Backstrom will own almost every single record for what is a 40+ year old franchise.

HOF is a great prerequisite. I think the Caps should be stingy with jersey retirements going forward because they were so liberal with it in the past.

If the team somehow gets over the playoff hump and starts winning Cups then I could see retiring a few numbers they wouldn't otherwise, but that hasn't happened.

Also, definitely no to kolzig. I'm a soft no with Bondra, but Ollie is a no-go.

Having said all that, I really don't care much.

 

[maacoshark]

HOF is a great prerequisite. I think the Caps should be stingy with jersey retirements going forward because they were so liberal with it in the past.

If the team somehow gets over the playoff hump and starts winning Cups then I could see retiring a few numbers they wouldn't otherwise, but that hasn't happened.

Also, definitely no to kolzig. I'm a soft no with Bondra, but Ollie is a no-go.

Having said all that, I really don't care much.

Why no for Kolzig?

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

The only teams that have only Hall of Famers with their numbers retired a Detroit, Montreal, Anaheim, and Florida.


Florida retired the number 93 for their GM that built the first team (in 1993, hence the number). Anaheim only has Selanne's number retired.

Anaheim is a real head scratcher, one would think Kariya is due.

So we're essentially looking at two original 6 teams and Anaheim. If you look at the rafter in Montreal and Detroit the reason they only retired sure thing HoFers is otherwise their rafters would be filled. Montreal has 18 numbers retired and Detroit has 7.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say we are never going to have an original 6 legacy so maybe it's okay to have no HOFers.


Also can someone explain to me why people keep bringing up the Cup? How is winning the Cup in any way related to retiring numbers?

 

[Ridley Simon]

In February the Devils will retire Patrik Elias's number, now there is obviously some notable difference between him and Bondra/Kolzig (whole career with the team, 2 Cup wins) but if you get down to just his numbers he certainly isn't a HOF guy. He posted more points that Bondra (he also played longer) but his only real individual accomplishments are 5 ASG appearances. Elias is to me what Bondra/Kolzig is, he meant more to the club then the stats really can tell, to me that's what number retirement is for. The HOF is for recognizing the all time legends, number retirement is for recognizing guys who meant the world to their club.



Also fun random trivia fact, Ollie Kolzig is the only player to wear all 3 incarnations of the logo the Caps have had.

What did he wear, that Bondra and Johansson didn’t?

Edit— OH, you mean the old school, the eagle, and the new school. Huh, I guess you may be right.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

What did he wear, that Bondra and Johansson didn’t?

Edit— OH, you mean the old school, the eagle, and the new school. Huh, I guess you may be right.

Yeah, the original red/white/blue, the nineties black/blue/copper, and the new age red/white/blue.


I was going to say every incarnation of the uniform but the Winter Classic makes that not necessarily true.

 

[maacoshark]

Yeah, the original red/white/blue, the nineties black/blue/copper, and the new age red/white/blue.


I was going to say every incarnation of the uniform but the Winter Classic makes that not necessarily true.

What about the black jersey?

 

[Corby78]

HOF is a great prerequisite. I think the Caps should be stingy with jersey retirements going forward because they were so liberal with it in the past.

If the team somehow gets over the playoff hump and starts winning Cups then I could see retiring a few numbers they wouldn't otherwise, but that hasn't happened.

Also, definitely no to kolzig. I'm a soft no with Bondra, but Ollie is a no-go.

Having said all that, I really don't care much.

liberal? We only have 4 and two are in the hall. We are averaging one every 10 years, just because our first was basically a fan favorite guy I don't think we have a liberal reputation. Also winning the cup shouldn't have any barring on a number being retired. That's a team achievement vs a personal.

 

[Corby78]

What about the black jersey?

Edit: Sorry, just realized you may have been asking "why it wasn't listed" not "did he wear it."

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

What about the black jersey?

I listed the black/blue/copper jerseys. I count this incarnation as one set as the originated as the white screaming eagle and blue screaming eagle and then the black was introduced as an alternate. In the early 2000's the blue was trashed and the black alternate became our home jersey.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

liberal? We only have 4 and two are in the hall. We are averaging one every 10 years, just because our first was basically a fan favorite guy I don't think we have a liberal reputation. Also winning the cup shouldn't have any barring on a number being retired. That's a team achievement vs a personal.

Can you imagine if other teams prevents themselves from retiring jerseys before winning a title?

The Cubs? The Red Sox? The Leafs?

It's almost comical to think about all of the hall of famers that would be left out.

 

[maacoshark]

View attachment 92851

Edit: Sorry, just realized you may have been asking "why it wasn't listed" not "did he wear it."

He did wear it in fact I have one of those black jerseys with Kolzig's name and number.

 

[maacoshark]

Can you imagine if other teams prevents themselves from retiring jerseys before winning a title?



It's almost comical to think about all of the hall of famers that would be left out.

At least those teams have won a title.

 

[maacoshark]

I listed the black/blue/copper jerseys. I count this incarnation as one set as the originated as the white screaming eagle and blue screaming eagle and then the black was introduced as an alternate. In the early 2000's the blue was trashed and the black alternate became our home jersey.

But it didnt have the eagle logo. The jersey was originally our 3rd jersey. I actually didnt mind the black jersey, I also like the white with blue and gold jerseys. The only problem with those jerseys is that they were representing the Capital. The colors should be red, white and blue.

 

[WanderingCapsFan]

The whole issue is f-ed. I've been a fan since year 1 (I was young, but, yes, that still makes me old). Those first years were horrible, but I still don't get Labre. You might as well retire Ron Low, for putting up with all those shots, or Guy Charron, or Dennis Maruk................or, none of those.

If you are going to retire numbers...........and I'm not sure this franchise has earned that honor (I more support a Ring of Honor for the very good and retire the #'s of the truly great), but if you are, Langway is the obvious first. He arguably saved the franchise.

Beyond that, to me, Bondra is easily #2. His goal scoring (without much help much of the time) , dynamism and enthusiasm was unmatched. I also think he cared deeply. His career almost entirely paralleled the dead-puck era of the 1990's to the mid-2000's, so the goal scoring numbers should be looked at in that light. The knock on him is the lack of team success (post season).

Behind Bondra, and borderline, are Hunter and Kolzig.

Going forward, Ovechkin is obvious. I tend to think that Backstrom falls maybe into the Hunter & Kolzig catagory.

And don't honor guys like Gartner (as great as he was), who piled up numbers with other franchises. That's like the Colorado Avalanche retiring Ray Bourque's number. That would never happen, right?

 

[Hivemind]

I mean Gartner did spend essentially 10 seasons in Washington, including both his career high in goals and career high in points. He also scored 397 of his 708 goals in a Washington jersey, far more than he did with any other team.

 

[WanderingCapsFan]

I mean Gartner did spend essentially 10 seasons in Washington, including both his career high in goals and career high in points. He also scored 397 of his 708 goals in a Washington jersey, far more than he did with any other team.

Fair enough. I may have gotten carried away making my point. That's a ton of goals, and I can still remember him coming down the wing and cranking the slapshot past the goalie.

 

[Holtbyisms]

Bondra all day, no question. Kolzig as a guy who set all the original goaltending records for the franchise and single handedly willed us to multiple playoff series wins and a cup birth. Has a Vezina trophy on top of it. I'd still hang 37 up just because of what he meant to this franchise in general not necessarily trying to compare him to HOF goalies or other teams goalies who hang in the rafters. As dynamic as Bondra was Kolzig was every bit and spent his entire career covering for terrible defenses. I go back to the days when he took over and I'm sure a lot of the rest of you do too. He meant as much to this franchise as Holtby has to the current generation of Caps and Caps fans. Travesty that both aren't already up there in my opinion.

 

[Corby78]

The real question since most here agree Bondra should be in, and Kozig is at worst a 50/50 discussion. Why has this not happened yet?

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Bondra should be a no brainer and I feel Kolzig should as well. In addition to his stats Kolzig was the leader of the Caps, the face of the franchise, during a stretch in Caps history that includes its one and only Cup appearance. He was everywhere selling, promoting, living the Caps. He deserves to have his number retired, IMO.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

The real question since most here agree Bondra should be in, and Kozig is at worst a 50/50 discussion. Why has this not happened yet?

The OV shadow cast over those two is pretty significant.