Can we finally admit that the Datsyuk trade was a complete train wreck?

[ArmChairGM89]

Well no, because the knock on Chychrun was always that is was injury prone, never lack of skill set. So far they haven’t been wrong. A guy like that is going to demand a big contract based on his skill, but be on and off IR, not great in the cap world.

If he stays healthy from here forward, different story.

Right my point was why lie about it?

 

[Frk It]

Well no, because the knock on Chychrun was always that is was injury prone, never lack of skill set. So far they haven’t been wrong. A guy like that is going to demand a big contract based on his skill, but be on and off IR, not great in the cap world.

If he stays healthy from here forward, different story.

At the time of the draft the debate was entirely on his skill set. So would not say durability was *always* the knock on him.

 

[nhlisawesome]

Chrychrun > Hronek > Chlowski

 

[Dotter]

The only train wreck I see is this thread being constantly bumped.

 

[Gniwder]

I know that is also part of the narrative but Stamkos was never going to sign here. Holland signing Neilsen to 5 years shows a comfort level that he was at least the backup plan if not the plan all along which I think is more likely. Also All Stamkos would have done for this team is extended Holland's stop gap bubble decline for more seasons.




He could have got the pick to draft Hronek in several other ways. You don't have to trade your first to get a second. I did deal with it, every time I watched Holland's dumpster fire roster. Let's keep in mind that a team desperately in need of a rebuild traded down to get rid of a contract. That is just moronic asset management.

Holland has a history of trading down to get extra picks. It's very probable that he would have done something similar even without the Datsyuk issue.

If you don't like the fact that he preferred Cholo over Chych, I get that. I would have taken the sure thing myself. But if you look at the end result with Hronek included, the trade is a wash at worst, and that's if Cholo is a complete bust.

I am not convinced at all that Cholo will become an NHL player. I do not like his game, or lack of. But Hronek is a much more exciting player to watch than Chych (both in a good and bad sorta way).

 

[Retire91]

Holland has a history of trading down to get extra picks. It's very probable that he would have done something similar even without the Datsyuk issue.

If you don't like the fact that he preferred Cholo over Chych, I get that. I would have taken the sure thing myself. But if you look at the end result with Hronek included, the trade is a wash at worst, and that's if Cholo is a complete bust.

I am not convinced at all that Cholo will become an NHL player. I do not like his game, or lack of. But Hronek is a much more exciting player to watch than Chych (both in a good and bad sorta way).

I also understand that point of view, I just personally would have rather seen something like Smith or Jurco traded for a second to pick up Hronek. The we keep our 16 now if they still use the 16 on Cholo then lol.

 

[kliq]

Right my point was why lie about it?

Sure, I dont believe they lied about liking Chowolski more.

 

[kliq]

At the time of the draft the debate was entirely on his skill set. So would not say durability was *always* the knock on him.

I respectfully disagree. Everything I read and discussed at the time was regarding his injury history.

 

[Frk It]

I respectfully disagree. Everything I read and discussed at the time was regarding his injury history.

He played a full season before being drafted...???

 

[Run the Jewels]

By whole bunch, you mean 2? Or are you going all the way back to Marty LaPointe?

Yeah, exactly. It had been so long and it's really looking like we went 0-2 as far as drafting elite talent. At least Seider is trending nicely and our odds of getting a really good player in this draft are very high. The point is we could have had a couple really good players and instead we got one complimentary piece is Zadina and a big what if with Rasmussen. That is going to set the rebuild back, it has to. Hopefully we can hit big on a couple 2nd and 3rd rounders every now and then, but the guys with the best odds are obviously top 10 picks.

 

[Frk It]

Yeah, exactly. It had been so long and it's really looking like we went 0-2 as far as drafting elite talent. At least Seider is trending nicely and our odds of getting a really good player in this draft are very high. The point is we could have had a couple really good players and instead we got one complimentary piece is Zadina and a big what if with Rasmussen. That is going to set the rebuild back, it has to. Hopefully we can hit big on a couple 2nd and 3rd rounders every now and then, but the guys with the best odds are obviously top 10 picks.

We already know Zadina’s ceiling? Word...

 

[kliq]

He played a full season before being drafted...???

I assume your comment is meant to be sarcastic, implying he didnt playing in the NHL before he was drafted. Maybe I'm misinterpreting you, and if so my bad.

If you're not being sarcastic, are you talking about his last season in junior. If so, isn't the OHL season 68 games? He played 62 games and 42 games in his two years of OHL hockey. I remember him having injury issues dating back to even before that.

The kid was always look upon highly, however there were injury concerns going back to those days. I remember having this discussion with people pre-draft, as many thought he was a top 5 talent, but his injury history concerned many teams. Just the fact that he went 16 should show that. Here are a few articles if you are not aware, and I found this after just a quick google search.

Man-boy Chychrun may not go No. 1 in OHL - TheHockeyNews

Here is a quote and link out of SBnation where it talks about him being a high end talent.

Jakob Chychrun sidelined ‘indefinitely’ after suffering knee injury

Chychrun was drafted at 16th overall by the Coyotes in the 2016 NHL entry draft and was a considered a steal by many as the defenseman was projected to be a top-three talent. He jumped right into the NHL after being drafted but sat a few games in the press box last season despite a high-offensive upside.

His knock was always injuries, and that was the discussion I was having at the time elsewhere. Maybe you were not, and you were more concerned with his play. That's cool as well.

 

[Gniwder]

I also understand that point of view, I just personally would have rather seen something like Smith or Jurco traded for a second to pick up Hronek. The we keep our 16 now if they still use the 16 on Cholo then lol.

The end result is the same. I didn't like the trade because I wanted Chych, but I don't hate the trade because we got Hronek.

There are waaay bigger mistakes that Holland made, this trade is meaningless.

 

[Gniwder]

Yeah, exactly. It had been so long and it's really looking like we went 0-2 as far as drafting elite talent. At least Seider is trending nicely and our odds of getting a really good player in this draft are very high. The point is we could have had a couple really good players and instead we got one complimentary piece is Zadina and a big what if with Rasmussen. That is going to set the rebuild back, it has to. Hopefully we can hit big on a couple 2nd and 3rd rounders every now and then, but the guys with the best odds are obviously top 10 picks.

I'm not defending Holland at all, I hated most of his picks. 2 picks isn't a lot and Z and Raz have yet to show their full potential, so it's too early to judge.

I'd be more pissed about taking SHeahan over Kuz, that was an obvious pick. He dropped because there were concerns that he might not come to the US, but show me a Russian player back then that didn't want to play wit Dats. The Caps picked him because they have Ovy, which is fine because that's my other team.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yeah, exactly. It had been so long and it's really looking like we went 0-2 as far as drafting elite talent. At least Seider is trending nicely and our odds of getting a really good player in this draft are very high. The point is we could have had a couple really good players and instead we got one complimentary piece is Zadina and a big what if with Rasmussen. That is going to set the rebuild back, it has to. Hopefully we can hit big on a couple 2nd and 3rd rounders every now and then, but the guys with the best odds are obviously top 10 picks.

The only thing that sets rebuilds back is completely missing, i.e. drafting total busts.

Neither Rasmussen or Zadina look like that. In fact both are trending pretty well. It's just early. I'm sure you're one of the people who think Jack Hughes and Kappo Kaakko are busts.

As long as you keep adding good players you will move ahead with the rebuild. I would also look at some teams like St.Louis, Columbus, Vegas, Nashville etc. who did build very good teams without necessarily landing those extremely high-end superstar talents.