Can we compete in 17-18 w/o sacrificing the future?

[Tripod]

^^^^ in 19/20, Simmonds could possibly not be on the team as he is a UFA summer 2019.

I think this coming year is another like this past one, and then I think the following year is when Hextall makes a trade of 2 to really try and push us to the next level.

With the prospects we have, plus another draft where we could have 10 more picks, we will be well stocked and have lots of assets at Hextall's disposal to make a trade we need at the time.

 

[Curufinwe]

A possible 17-18 team that fits under a $73m cap.

Schenn-Giroux-Simmonds
Raffl-Couturier-Voracek
Aube-Kubel or Lindblom-Laughton(2)-Konecny
Lyubimov(1.1)-Cousins(1.5)-Read
Leier(0.75)

MDZ(5)-Ghost(5)
Provorov-Gudas
Morin-Sanheim
MacDonald-Manning

Mason (5.5)
Stolarz or Lyon (1)

 

[Curufinwe]

So if they didn't re-sign MDZ they would have roughly $5m to spend on a free agent. Or more if they went cheaper in net.

 

[Tripod]

A possible 17-18 team that fits under a $73m cap.

Schenn-Giroux-Simmonds
Raffl-Couturier-Voracek
Aube-Kubel or Lindblom-Laughton(2)-Konecny
Lyubimov(1.1)-Cousins(1.5)-Read
Leier(0.75)

MDZ(5)-Ghost(5)
Provorov-Gudas
Morin-Sanheim
MacDonald-Manning

Mason (5.5)
Stolarz or Lyon (1)

Now see at that point, I see Hextall making 1-2 moves. Trade for a real #3 C if Laughton/ Cousins isn't the answer....trade Read as part of or in a separate deal to afford that player.

Leier replaces Read on the 4th line.

Also, trade AMac if possible even if we have to add a 2nd to him. We will have lots of picks and prospects so can afford it. Then possibly use the cap hit to add a top 6 LW.

 

[Rebels57]

A possible 17-18 team that fits under a $73m cap.

Schenn-Giroux-Simmonds
Raffl-Couturier-Voracek
Aube-Kubel or Lindblom-Laughton(2)-Konecny
Lyubimov(1.1)-Cousins(1.5)-Read
Leier(0.75)

MDZ(5)-Ghost(5)
Provorov-Gudas
Morin-Sanheim
MacDonald-Manning

Mason (5.5)
Stolarz or Lyon (1)

I put the odds at Raffl being in our top 6 in 17-18 at somewhere between slim and none.

 

[Rebels57]

17-18 and 18-19 are the years to aim for imo. After that, Giroux will be on the decline. We need him at his best. We'll also have to give big salaries to Provorov, Morin, Sanheim, Ghost... can't see us keeping them all.

Not necessarily..because you Couturier and Rubstov at Center ready to take on bigger roles. Everyone thought Thornton was done too..and in his late 30s he was one of the best Centers in the league and went to the Finals.

As your stars get older, you just need to continually reduce their burden while having younger stars take on bigger responsibilities.

 

[Curufinwe]

I put the odds at Raffl being in our top 6 in 17-18 at somewhere between slim and none.

Hak may well put the successful Raffl-G-Voracek first line back together.

 

[Rebels57]

Yup, Hak may well put the successful Raffl-G-Voracek first line back together.

Well if we get 14-15 Jake with that trio united, then sign me up!

I just think that a lot of these projected lineups don't take into account how frequently things changes from season to season.

Konecny not playing in our top 6 in 17-18 would be shocking to me, for instance.

Then you have a guy like Lindblom that could already be making a big impact by 17-18 as a rookie.

The way I see our lines in 17-18..

Top 6: Giroux-Voracek-Simmonds-Couturier-Schenn-Konecny
Bottom 6: Raffl-Lindblom-Laughton-Cousins-Leier-Weise
Unknowns: Lyubimov-Gordon

If Weise plays well in 16-17 and Vegas has their eyes on him, I would think Hextall may work out a deal with McPhee so that they pass him up.

Gordon could be resigned for another 1 year deal if he lives up to expectations. Lyubimov could be anywhere from going back to Europe to extended like Raffl was.

Tbh, the only position with some uncertainty for the future is 3C. We have a wealth of bottom 6 options to the point where guys will be battling it out until the last days of training camp for roles, but at 3C we really dont know whats going to happen.

Laughton and Cousins both need to take steps forward and quickly. Cousins played about as well as I expect him to last season as a rookie. Laughton concerns me, regardless of what his EV P/60 says.

I can also see 17-18 as the season Hextall loads up at the deadline and pushes a guys like Raffl or Lindblom down to the 4th line at the expense of a rental.

 

[Curufinwe]

I just find it hard to imagine Konecny playing with Couturier as a 19 year old or 20 year old. Playing on a secondary scoring line that gets sheltered seems like a much better way to use him.

I find it even harder to imagine Hextall bribing Vegas to keep hold of a 29 year old 3rd liner like Weise, unless he has an incredible 16-17 season.

 

[Rebels57]

I just find it hard to imagine Konecny playing with Couturier as a 19 year old or 20 year old. Playing on a secondary scoring line that gets sheltered seems like a much better way to use him.

I find it even harder to imagine Hextall bribing Vegas to keep hold of a 29 year old 3rd liner like Weise, unless he has an incredible 16-17 season.

That's kinda what I meant too..if Weise puts up say, 20 goals 35 points..

As for TK, keep in mind Couturier was going head to head with Malkin at 18 years old..

TK can handle it, and I think Coots will be getting slightly easier defensive minutes in 17-18 with our hopefully improved bottom 6. That said, TK seems like a guy that may bounce around the lineup on any of the top 3 lines. He can do it all.

 

[flyers4487]

So last years underachieving team made the playoffs, we cleared some dead weight, brought in a potential 20 goal scorer, and have enough cap space, player movement flexibility to keep any prospect that earns a spot out of camp. All with out trading any draft picks. I think hexy had a pretty solid offseason. If the underachievers play to their potential I say we are a solid 6th spot in the playoffs, with potential to do some damage in the playoffs.

I am not sure if its already been said, but the Gordon signing could be huge, the amount of defensive draws he could take off Gs hands, should produce an extra 10ish goals/ 20ish points out of G.

 

[lancer247]

So last years underachieving team made the playoffs, we cleared some dead weight, brought in a potential 20 goal scorer, and have enough cap space, player movement flexibility to keep any prospect that earns a spot out of camp. All with out trading any draft picks. I think hexy had a pretty solid offseason. If the underachievers play to their potential I say we are a solid 6th spot in the playoffs, with potential to do some damage in the playoffs.

I am not sure if its already been said, but the Gordon signing could be huge, the amount of defensive draws he could take off Gs hands, should produce an extra 10ish goals/ 20ish points out of G.

Potential 20 goal scorer? Weise?

 

[Rebels57]

So last years underachieving team made the playoffs, we cleared some dead weight, brought in a potential 20 goal scorer, and have enough cap space, player movement flexibility to keep any prospect that earns a spot out of camp. All with out trading any draft picks. I think hexy had a pretty solid offseason. If the underachievers play to their potential I say we are a solid 6th spot in the playoffs, with potential to do some damage in the playoffs.

I am not sure if its already been said, but the Gordon signing could be huge, the amount of defensive draws he could take off Gs hands, should produce an extra 10ish goals/ 20ish points out of G.

I do agree it will be huge, but I would reduce the expectations a bit.. I can see an extra 5 goals and 10 assists.

 

[flyers4487]

So last years underachieving team made the playoffs, we cleared some dead weight, brought in a potential 20 goal scorer, and have enough cap space, player movement flexibility to keep any prospect that earns a spot out of camp. All with out trading any draft picks. I think hexy had a pretty solid offseason. If the underachievers play to their potential I say we are a solid 6th spot in the playoffs, with potential to do some damage in the playoffs.

I am not sure if its already been said, but the Gordon signing could be huge, the amount of defensive draws he could take off Gs hands, should produce an extra 10ish goals/ 20ish points out of G.

Potential 20 goal scorer? Weise?

He scored 15 last year, with reduced minuted in the 2nd half of the yr. Theres no reason to think he can't at least duplicate that total with increased minutes.

I do agree it will be huge, but I would reduce the expectations a bit.. I can see an extra 5 goals and 10 assists.

Ok so lets say we get 5 more goals from g that way, Jake is good for at least 10 more goals (he better be, or we are in trouble) + a few more from MDZ, and assuming everyone else matches their goals from last yr, means we should be a very solid playoff team. IMO the goal of the offseason was to get at least 20 more goals, and I think Weise, and Gordon signings add at least 20.

Obviously there are alot of other factors at play, but I think there is a very good chance that we will be a solid 6th seat, with some breathing room at the end of the season. This also is not making any assumptions on any of the kids making the team.

 

[Garbage Goal]

So several players increase in production and Weise not only sets a career high in goals, but increases his goal scoring by .7 of the total goals he scored in all of last year. Also, nobody regresses from last year in any way, shape, or form.

Yeah, I'm sure that will all happen. No hiccups or let-downs anywhere. Heck, why not set a massive career high in goals for every bottom six player on the team.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

We're going to be about the same as last year unless Provorov blows the doors open in camp and has a phenomenal rookie season...which I highly doubt.

Flyers will be a more serious Cup threat in 3-4 years...our upcoming defense needs NHL experience for a few years before they can handle the pressure.

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

"Maybe." For reference, here are some roster predictions from a little under a year ago:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1966733

You'll notice that a lot can change in a season, and nobody really knows.

 

[Rebels57]

"Maybe." For reference, here are some roster predictions from a little under a year ago:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1966733

You'll notice that a lot can change in a season, and nobody really knows.

Ugh that thread was a reminder of WelcomeToGirouxSalem's hard-on for Raffl

 

[Curufinwe]

That Vinny buy-out would have been a killer.

 

[deadhead]

Flyers finished strong because they adjusted to Hakstol's scheme.
That won't be an issue this year.
The team is deeper and younger and faster.
They've moved out L Schenn, Vinnie, Gagner, White. Manning and VV are on life support.
However, goalie is still a question mark, good Mason/bad Mason, and will Neuron stay healthy for more than a week at a time?

They're a 100+ point team, how big of a + remains to be seen.

 

[StoneHands]

Ok so lets say we get 5 more goals from g that way, Jake is good for at least 10 more goals (he better be, or we are in trouble) + a few more from MDZ, and assuming everyone else matches their goals from last yr, means we should be a very solid playoff team. IMO the goal of the offseason was to get at least 20 more goals, and I think Weise, and Gordon signings add at least 20.

Obviously there are alot of other factors at play, but I think there is a very good chance that we will be a solid 6th seat, with some breathing room at the end of the season. This also is not making any assumptions on any of the kids making the team.

So we added Weise and Gordon which you think will add 20 goals but we lost White and Gagner who combined for 19 goals. Do Weise and Gordon's presence equate to 39 team goals?

It's fair to assume that Giroux will score 5 more goals which would be 1 shy of his career high, Voracek scores 10 more goals which is 2 short of his career high, Simmonds scores 32 goals again which is his career high, Schenn repeats his career high 26 goal season, and that Ghost can repeat the magic and score 17 goals as a defenseman. What's not fair is to assume that ALL of these things will happen. I mean, you're basically hoping that everyone has close to career highs in goals and somehow you think adding Dale Weise and Boyd Gordon are the reasons for that? I'm so confused.

 

[flyers4487]

So we added Weise and Gordon which you think will add 20 goals but we lost White and Gagner who combined for 19 goals. Do Weise and Gordon's presence equate to 39 team goals?

It's fair to assume that Giroux will score 5 more goals which would be 1 shy of his career high, Voracek scores 10 more goals which is 2 short of his career high, Simmonds scores 32 goals again which is his career high, Schenn repeats his career high 26 goal season, and that Ghost can repeat the magic and score 17 goals as a defenseman. What's not fair is to assume that ALL of these things will happen. I mean, you're basically hoping that everyone has close to career highs in goals and somehow you think adding Dale Weise and Boyd Gordon are the reasons for that? I'm so confused.

I admit that I didn't account for White and Gangers loss in production. But what im getting at is this team is better then last yrs team, and last year while Schenn and Simmons had career years, g and jake had **** seasons. I think the odds are in our favor that G and Jake have bounce back years (because if your top 2 players are not your best 2 players, then well the team is screwed). As for Simmons its fair to assume that his production will be close to this yrs unless the pp takes a dump (which could happen). Schenn has also increased his point production each of the last 3 seasons, so its safe to say we can expect at the very least only a minor drop off. Ghost will (barring injury) play a full season this yr, so yes I think his point total will stay the same simply because he will play in more games. I also think Weise and Gordon are very much an upgrade over ganger and white. Nothing that im saying is a reach to happen.

I really, really think this team went from a bubble team to a solid playoff team (6th spot) and this is not taking into consideration any prospects making the team. It's not a HUGE improvement, but considering we traded away zero assets, didn't sign any bad contracts that will hurt us in the future, and had a great draft, im pretty happy with this offseason.

 

[Rebels57]

So we added Weise and Gordon which you think will add 20 goals but we lost White and Gagner who combined for 19 goals. Do Weise and Gordon's presence equate to 39 team goals?

It's fair to assume that Giroux will score 5 more goals which would be 1 shy of his career high, Voracek scores 10 more goals which is 2 short of his career high, Simmonds scores 32 goals again which is his career high, Schenn repeats his career high 26 goal season, and that Ghost can repeat the magic and score 17 goals as a defenseman. What's not fair is to assume that ALL of these things will happen. I mean, you're basically hoping that everyone has close to career highs in goals and somehow you think adding Dale Weise and Boyd Gordon are the reasons for that? I'm so confused.

Weise and Gordon will replace the 19 goals from White and Gagner and also allow for easier matchups for the top 6, thus maintaining or increase their production. That's all he was saying really. Let's also not forgot Weise and Gordon won't be the cause of as many goals against as White and Gagner either..so there's that.

 

[Embiid]

Gagner was soft ....definitely addition by subtraction there

White was homely....

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I think Weise will score around 15 goals this year. I think he'll be a guy who's their swing guy from the bottom six to the top six when injuries happen so perhaps he could squeeze out a few more than that.

I don't think Gordon will provide much offense but I think he'll be another piece in stabilizing the bottom six by having a defined role (defensive fourth line center).

I think overall we'll get more production from our bottom six next year.