Can we compete in 17-18 w/o sacrificing the future?

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Neuvrith had to have like a 50 something save shutout to avoid a sweep. I wouldn't use that as proof of almost being there.

They only way we'll get there is on the unknowns within the organization.

Totally disagree. First off, the shutout was in game five, when the series was at 3-1 so that shutout didn't avoid a sweep, it pushed it to a game six. Second off, losing in the playoffs in six games doesn't mean that this (or any) team is not a going to be able to go further the next year. Third, Sean Couturier was gone for the bulk of that series. I don't think his absence was THE reason we lost, but I do think that having him in the lineup makes some of those losses a little closer. Finally, the Flyers power play which IIRC was top ten or close to it, was just gone in the playoffs. That is something that should not have been that bad during that series, and should be improved this year.

Basically, this was a playoff team last year and they have only gotten better. The only question is how much better. Unknowns could certainly have an impact (i.e., The Neck having a great rookie year, Provolone doing the same, Streit or Read bouncing back, etc.), but even if they don't, this team is still better than it was last year.

 

[Cyborg LeClair]

Power play was probably affected by Giroux and Ghost needing hip and abdominal surgery and Voracek still feeling the affects of his broken foot.

Probably

 

[GKJ]

Doesn't have to take long in this league.

 

[briererocks]

It completely depends on the D prospects tbh...

if Provorov can have a similar impact as someone like say Doughty/Pietrangelo in their 2nd season at a similar age... I.E. be a bonafide #1 level D at that point then for sure they could be very legitimate contenders.

But that is not too common... it is usually the 3rd season that young D men with that kind of ability get to that level, having been a top 4 Dman in first 2 years.


Also I think the Flyers wait the extra year to buyout AMac... as there will be no pressing need and the 2018 numbers are very agreeable, more-so than 2019 and the salary coming off in 2022 instead of 2023 could be useful when re-signing our D as UFA's & RFA's.


That being said I know 2017-18 was the season a lot of us had in our minds as possibly the earliest start of the Flyers 'window' a few years back... and I would expect them to be a good playoff team with the expectation of winning ~2 rounds at least then really.

It does not all fall on Provorov's shoulders. We have a couple of potential game changers. Konency has the ability to be a star. Provorov may become a star. Sanheim probably needs at least 1 season in the AHL but there is chance he can surprise and be an impact player earlier. I'm higher than most on Aube Kubel who I think can be a very good player (better NHL player than he was in juniors) very quickly.

I also think they were be alot of trades next season due to the expansion draft, the cap going up so slowly, and restricted free agents getting larger pay earlier in their careers. The Flyers should be able to opportunistic and pick up a good young player.

If 1 or 2 of their prospects are precocious and reach star status this year or next (not neccesarily provorov) and they add a solid piece next offseason or during the season I truly believe they will be one of the better teams in the East in 17-18, with Tampa, Washington and Pittsburgh.

 

[YEM]

Basically, this was a playoff team last year and they have only gotten better.

only because of the bruins choking away the 8th seed with 9 losses in their last 12 games

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Totally disagree. First off, the shutout was in game five, when the series was at 3-1 so that shutout didn't avoid a sweep, it pushed it to a game six. Second off, losing in the playoffs in six games doesn't mean that this (or any) team is not a going to be able to go further the next year. Third, Sean Couturier was gone for the bulk of that series. I don't think his absence was THE reason we lost, but I do think that having him in the lineup makes some of those losses a little closer. Finally, the Flyers power play which IIRC was top ten or close to it, was just gone in the playoffs. That is something that should not have been that bad during that series, and should be improved this year.

Basically, this was a playoff team last year and they have only gotten better. The only question is how much better. Unknowns could certainly have an impact (i.e., The Neck having a great rookie year, Provolone doing the same, Streit or Read bouncing back, etc.), but even if they don't, this team is still better than it was last year.

Okay I got my games wrong, he might not have even made 50 saves too. However the point still kind of stands, Neuvirth's really the only reason that went 6 games.

Also I'm not saying they can't be better next year compared to this past year. I actually think they will but they won't be contenders which is what I would say counts as "almost there". That Washington series doesn't really prove anything to me as the Flyers were never really in it to begin with.

 

[Cootsfanclub]

only because of the bruins choking away the 8th seed with 9 losses in their last 12 games

Flyers started poorly and were a much better team than the Bruins as soon as Ghost come in.

 

[YEM]

Flyers started poorly and were a much better team than the Bruins as soon as Ghost come in.

bruins were in first place in their division midway through March

we played very well down the stretch to earn the spot but let's not pretend that we didn't have a massive amount of help via their epic choke; first place->out of the playoffs in less than a month

 

[Striiker]

It goes both ways.

If they don't choke we're probably not in the playoffs.

But at the same time if we don't play so well down the stretch then their choke probably doesn't cost them a playoff spot.


Regardless, the Flyers making the playoffs last year doesn't mean much to me, it's the way they played in the second half of the year that I'm impressed/encouraged by.

 

[Curufinwe]

If the Bruins were better they would have knocked Detroit out, not us.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?repor...0152016&gameType=2&sort=pointPctg&aggregate=0

 

[46zone]

I always viewed 17-18 as the "take off" point, and I expect Hextall to be more aggressive next off-season to make moves to put us on that level.

As far as this season, I think we'll hover around 100 points, and perhaps sneak into the second round with some luck. A full season on Gostisbehere, a healthy Del Zotto, and the addition of Provorov should at least make the backend competent. Gordon & Weise should improve the bottom six. That said, 3C and 2LW remain glaring holes on this team.

 

[Hockeypete49]

I went with "maybe" because you just never know. However I still think we are a couple of years away from being a juggernaut, a team that all teams fear. Ron has assembled some nice building blocks and if he hits on some of the talent coming up, you add the two together plus some moves he may make well then that puts the Flyers right up there with the big boys a true cup contender.

 

[Jack Straw]

I voted "no" but I guess you can't go wrong with "maybe". Right now, when I look at the Flyers (even with my homer glasses on) I don't see an "up and coming" team. I see a team that's kind of hovering around average-ness. As others have said, how the defense prospects turn out will be a huge factor.

 

[NYCFlyer]

I voted no. I just don't see the D being ready by then to oust the top 4 teams in the conference without moving some of our future assets. When you look at 18-19 and add in the projected D they still look really young.

 

[briererocks]

I voted no. I just don't see the D being ready by then to oust the top 4 teams in the conference without moving some of our future assets. When you look at 18-19 and add in the projected D they still look really young.

There are alot of opportunities forthcoming to acquire a good young player.

Consider Anaheim. They are going to have a exceptionally hard time trading Fowler before the season and not taking salary back. They still have to sign both Rakell and Lindholm. They are going to make a trade.

Winnipeg is going to resign Trouba but they too may make a trade to lower their salary.

Colorado will resign Barrie and I think trade him.

Washington will trade one of Orpik, Niskanan, Alzner, Orlov and Schmidt in the next 12 months.

Tampa will have to move a good forward in the next 12 months.

Ottawa a budget team, has to resign Stone and Turris in two seasons - their two best forwards, and in 3 seasons have to resign Karlsson.

Boston is going to dismantle their team. i think their defense is atrocious and having Krug on IR to start the season is going to result in them having a horrific start to the season.

Detroit is going to miss the playoffs and try to rebuild.

The Flyers have the cap space to be opportunistic especially if they can trade both Streit and Read, which I think they can do during the season. There are alot of opportunities. The cap situation really benefit the flyers if they can get rid of streit and read, which again I think they can.


I am optimistic they can add a good piece and suddenly be legitimate cup contender. It also helps that Chicago, while still cup contenders, is on the decline, LA is on the decline, and the only legitimate cup teams in the East are Washington, Tampa and Pittsburgh.

 

[NYCFlyer]

There are alot of opportunities forthcoming to acquire a good young player.

Consider Anaheim. They are going to have a exceptionally hard time trading Fowler before the season and not taking salary back. They still have to sign both Rakell and Lindholm. They are going to make a trade.

Winnipeg is going to resign Trouba but they too may make a trade to lower their salary.

Colorado will resign Barrie and I think trade him.

Washington will trade one of Orpik, Niskanan, Alzner, Orlov and Schmidt in the next 12 months.

Tampa will have to move a good forward in the next 12 months.

Ottawa a budget team, has to resign Stone and Turris in two seasons - their two best forwards, and in 3 seasons have to resign Karlsson.

Boston is going to dismantle their team. i think their defense is atrocious and having Krug on IR to start the season is going to result in them having a horrific start to the season.

Detroit is going to miss the playoffs and try to rebuild.

The Flyers have the cap space to be opportunistic especially if they can trade both Streit and Read, which I think they can do during the season. There are alot of opportunities. The cap situation really benefit the flyers if they can get rid of streit and read, which again I think they can.


I am optimistic they can add a good piece and suddenly be legitimate cup contender. It also helps that Chicago, while still cup contenders, is on the decline, LA is on the decline, and the only legitimate cup teams in the East are Washington, Tampa and Pittsburgh.

I agree with most of that and a lot can happen in two years. I do think Florida is a cup contender i really like how that team is built. The west has lots of contenders. I would like to see us be patient and make moves when we have more good players than slots for them.

 

[briererocks]

I agree with most of that and a lot can happen in two years. I do think Florida is a cup contender i really like how that team is built. The west has lots of contenders. I would like to see us be patient and make moves when we have more good players than slots for them.

Agreed.I should have included Florida. There are only 4 legitimate good teams in the east: Washington, Tampa, Florida and Pittsburgh. Rangers, Islanders etc.. I do not consider legitimate cup teams anymore. The Flyers can close the gap with those teams.

Pretty exciting and good job by Hextall being patient - drafting well, not handing out stupid contracts, and dumping some horrible contracts like Lecavalier.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

bruins were in first place in their division midway through March

we played very well down the stretch to earn the spot but let's not pretend that we didn't have a massive amount of help via their epic choke; first place->out of the playoffs in less than a month

They were mainly leading their division because they had more games played. They were in 3rd or 4th in their division by point percentage most of the year (P% is a much better indicator of standing which I tried to explain to my bruins and Detroit fan friends all year )

 

[Laveuglette]

17-18 and 18-19 are the years to aim for imo. After that, Giroux will be on the decline. We need him at his best. We'll also have to give big salaries to Provorov, Morin, Sanheim, Ghost... can't see us keeping them all.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Define "competitors". That's really what this topic means. Technically, anyone who gets into the playoffs can win the Cups and in that way every playoff team is a competitor. Most playoff teams are generally pretty good every year, there's usually only the odd one or two who make it because of a fluke or because the competition was weak for the last playoff spot.

Or you could view competitors as being elite and having a good chance at a Cup.

We fit the former, not the latter until proven otherwise. There's a lot of variables we need to wait-and-see on such as Provorov, Ghost's sophomore season, Voracek's hopeful rebound, and as always injuries are a factor. So, get back to me come playoff time. For what it's worth though, I do think we were underrated going into the playoffs last year and will be underrated this year. I think we have a pretty damn good team, the question is just how many more years of seasoning the roster needs if any.

 

[WastedTalent]

bruins were in first place in their division midway through March

we played very well down the stretch to earn the spot but let's not pretend that we didn't have a massive amount of help via their epic choke; first place->out of the playoffs in less than a month

The Flyers had something like a .600+ win percentage from November on when Ghost came up (I know Appleyard has posted it a bunch of times before). That's too long of a period to say that they only played well down the stretch

 

[David St Hubbins]

AS stated before, it depends on the d prospects. If Provorov can play like a solid #2 and Morin comes in as a reliable defensive dman after playing all or most of 16-17 in the NHL, then we are a threat to make the ECF in 17-18.

Moving to a legitimate SC contender is trickier, and will be another year or so as the d matures, Sanheim and others come up, and some of the more expensive, less helpful players move on (Streit & Schultz this year, McDonald traded next year with $1.5-2 M retained makes a lot more sense than buying him out)

But in no scenario do I see Hextall going full Clarke/Holmgren and loading up on vets. Add a scoring wing, sure, but not much more and not someone that will cost us Meyer, Freidman, or a #1 or 2 pick.

 

[baudib1]

There's no reason the Flyers can't compete this year.

If the Flyers aren't a legit contender (~105 points or so) in 2018, something will have gone wrong.

I see Provorov and Konecny having the same type of impact as Parayko/Fabbri on St. Louis. Hopefully they'll be in their 2nd year by then. Sanheim and Morin will have gotten at least a taste of NHL experience by then.

Provorov-Del Zotto
Morin-Gostisbehere
Sanheim-Gudas

We made the playoffs this year without Provorov and without Del Zotto most of the year. We made the playoffs with Gudas paired with Manning, and Ghost paired with Andrew Freaking MacDonald.

Schenn-Giroux-Simmonds
Vorachek-Couturier-Konecny
-Cousins-Weise
Raffl-Gordon-

The bottom spots can be filled in by:
Free Agent A, Free Agent B, Laughton, Leier, Lindblom, Fazleev, Weal.

 

[Flukeshot]

Yes, I think the Flyers will be a good team after this season. They are a decent team now. This year I wouldn't be surprised to see them go anywhere between just missing the playoffs, to making the 2nd round.

In 2017-18 I expect them to be in the 2nd rd and potentially Conf finals. And I define Cup contender as a team that can likely make the Conf finals.

The team needs a lot of playoff experience with this group to make a Cup run, so the more playoff games they get under their belt now, the better.

 

[StoneHands]

I don't see the being serious cup contenders in '17-'18 but I think that's the season when they get a real taste for the playoffs with a deep run so who knows. Provorov and Konecny will be 21 by the time the playoffs start and we're assuming by then that they'll already have 2 full seasons under them. Sanheim will be 22, Morin will be 22 going on 23. Rubtsov will have hopefully gotten a taste of the NHL and guys like Ghost, Couturier, and Schenn will just be entering their prime while the vets are still 30 or younger.

To me, their best bet will be the '18-'19 and '19-'20 seasons when guys like Giroux, Simmonds, and Voracek are all still playing at a high level while all the D prospects are just entering their prime and Ghost, Couts, and Schenn are mid-prime. Very nice mix.