Speculation: Can this be the year that Dubas/Keefe rely heavily on prospects to play bigger roles?

[nuck]

I mean. What else is left? With 50% of the cap going to 4 forwards you have to try this.

It worked for Lou/Babcock not too long ago. Let's see them try it.

Time for Robertson, Liljegren, Sandin, etc. to step in and Plough.

We can't just rely on Spezza and Simmonds to be there through and through. We can't have a Joe Thornton (skating in mud) situation again.

How could they hurt you? They can't at this point.

Can you see it?

This is go time for Dubas. Committing to kids was something for 2 playoff losses ago. He needs to ice the strongest lineup he can to keep his job which means not relying on anyone who wasn't helping him last year to win this year. He can't leave a hole in the lineup in the hope that Robertson or the young D "might" have it, and then have to scrounge in season for the right players. If anything one of those guys is more likely to be traded to beef up the lineup with somebody more proven. Adding someone new for a tolerable price is way easier in the summer than during the year when lineups are set and the last decent UFAs are gone.

He was all in on the last playoff, selling picks for rentals because he thinks the team is "there" so why would we hope that isn't going to continue with his ass clearly on the line this year? Sorry I can't see it at all. He and Shanny believe in this group and they are going to try and bring an improved lineup to the post season. Assuming some unproven pieces will suddenly click is a gamble they can't afford to take, nor should they. The only way I want any of the young guns in this seasons lineup is if they tear the spot away from someone who was already penciled in to start the year.

This is not the training camp for a kid to step in unless he walks on water.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I only see Lilly as being the one to step in and play a good role on the team. Sandin I think should play another year on the Marlies to work on his defense like Lilly did. Brooks looks like he's ready for full time duty. The only other player that to me can step up from the AHL is Anderson. He is 5'11 and built solid. Plays with energy. Would be perfect for a bottom 6 role. Robertson needs to work on his balance, strength and skating. I just don't think he's ready yet.

So many of our prospects graduated quickly that the Marlies are depleted with no one ready to make the step up like a Johnsson or Kapanen. Dubas' draft picks are just graduating to the AHL now or still in Europe and the rest of Hunter's picks have either completely busted or been traded.

I think the Marlies could be fairly strong in another year or so.

 

[Racer88]

The cupboard is pretty much bare and will be for a few years with all the picks and prospects Dubas has traded away

 

[NewEraGM]

I only see Lilly as being the one to step in and play a good role on the team. Sandin I think should play another year on the Marlies to work on his defense like Lilly did. Brooks looks like he's ready for full time duty. The only other player that to me can step up from the AHL is Anderson. He is 5'11 and built solid. Plays with energy. Would be perfect for a bottom 6 role. Robertson needs to work on his balance, strength and skating. I just don't think he's ready yet.

So many of our prospects graduated quickly that the Marlies are depleted with no one ready to make the step up like a Johnsson or Kapanen. Dubas' draft picks are just graduating to the AHL now or still in Europe and the rest of Hunter's picks have either completely busted or been traded.

I think the Marlies could be fairly strong in another year or so.

How ? With who? Who did the leafs draft that could make an impact on the Marlies?

 

[fahad203]

Only player I see playing is Brooks. He looked good in some games but was overwhelmed in the playoffs

Not sure about Robertsson and he brings. I can't think anyone else being NHL ready

 

[Knies iT]

Leafs are a funny case.

They used to have tons of offensive depth, including elite level prospects that had not yet reached their peak.

Now those elite prospects have peaked. All the depth is gone and replaced with one aging vet at $11M.

So yeah, you need some young blood to fill in the gaps. But it's asking a lot of a prospect pool that to me at least seems average to weak. Some guys have potential (maybe), but the Leafs are out of sure fire can't miss prospects. They're in the realm of fingers crossed hope they turn into something.

When you add that to the fact that Dubas has been firing away 1st round picks with little to no return (1st ++ for Muzzin who has been hurt in multiple playoff runs, 1st wasted on getting rid of Marleau unnecessarily, 1st for Foligno with no return on investment), it means the chances are going to be slim to have cheap contributors come in for the next 3 years or more.

If guys like Robertson or Amirov don't pan out like some optimistic folks in here claim, this team could be very quickly back to square one.

If Matthews leaves as I suspect he will (i believe he is going to California, Vegas or Arizona), and Marner decides he likes the life of anonymity as I suspect he will, then the Leafs will be left with a broken down Tavares and Nylander to build around and everyone will be asking what the heck happened.

And that's just on the skill front, which this team was supposed to be built on. It doesnt address the issues with toughness, their D or goaltending. All of which have major major flaws.

So if our franchise player and 2nd best player leave for nothing we’re in trouble? You don’t say.

How many teams in the league have top end elite talent on their roster with sure fire blue chip prospects ready to make an immediate impact? You’ll only need one hand. The Leafs pool is top 15-20 and deep but lacking blue chippers. Amirov, Robertson and Sandin are close to guarantees to play in some capacity.

If you draw the darkest timeline, the future looks grim. More at 11.

 

[TorontoTrades]

Hymans likely departure is a huge opportunity for Robertson

 

[All Mod Cons]

I don't believe so.

I think more picks and prospects will be traded away

 

[MoreMogilny]

We really should be at the stage where young players on ELCs are regularly entering the lineup and making impacts. Unfortunately the current regime has surrendered three first round picks despite never winning a round of playoff hockey.

I think we jumped the gun a bit. Nobody could have predicted the impact Covid would have on the league but I’m guessing that Dubas figured we would have more and more cap dollars available by now in order to continue improving the team through trades and free agency. Now we sit with a flat cap and next to no options for major improvements.

Here’s to hoping Robertson is a secret weapon up front, and that Liljegren/Sandin are able to handle real minutes because beyond those three there are serious questions about who might be able to break into this lineup and make a meaningful impact.

Andersen and Hyman will be departing this season, taking away a couple more members of that young, deep, talented team from 2017-18. I never would have thought we would be here today with hardly any depth and empty cupboards. It’s like we paid the price for success, without actually having any success.

 

[Maple Leaf]

We really should be at the stage where young players on ELCs are regularly entering the lineup and making impacts. Unfortunately the current regime has surrendered three first round picks despite never winning a round of playoff hockey.

I think we jumped the gun a bit. Nobody could have predicted the impact Covid would have on the league but I’m guessing that Dubas figured we would have more and more cap dollars available by now in order to continue improving the team through trades and free agency. Now we sit with a flat cap and next to no options for major improvements.

Here’s to hoping Robertson is a secret weapon up front, and that Liljegren/Sandin are able to handle real minutes because beyond those three there are serious questions about who might be able to break into this lineup and make a meaningful impact.

Andersen and Hyman will be departing this season, taking away a couple more members of that young, deep, talented team from 2017-18. I never would have thought we would be here today with hardly any depth and empty cupboards. It’s like we paid the price for success, without actually having any success.

prospec pool is no good

 

[ottomaddox]

Humans likely departure is a huge opportunity for Robertson

There's plenty of room for diversity in MLSE.

Certain Martians could be a suitable replacement. Also K-9's might be able to skate well enough to be a depth forward on the Leafs.

 

[Buds17]

I'm hopeful that one of the young blueliners (Sandin or Liljegren) makes the team from the start. It would be great if the other and Robertson make the team for good as well at some point during the season.

 

[Nylanderthal]

If I were GM I would have just kept him to avoid paying a 1st. Even if he just plays 4th line minutes, he continues to act as a mentor for the young core. Best case scenario someone sees value in him at the deadline and you actually turn him into a small asset.

I would have been looking to trade Kap and AJ that prior season or summer since they were redundant on this team. Then Marleau comes off the books and you still have your own first, plus whatever other assets you collect in those trades I mentioned. Much more effective asset management then what was done.

I was always lukewarm in Muzzin because he wasn't what the team needed. They needed an RHD. Dubas got a guy who some people on message boards claimed could play the right side well, even though those of us who stayed up late to watch Kings games, knew he wasn't effective doing. I don't think the price paid was awful (seems on part to slightly high), but ultimately this player can't stay in the lineup when the going gets tough. 2 of 3 playoffs he's missed critical time. Usually injuries accelerate as players get older. So given that a 1st ++ was spent you would want to get more.

Foligno was just awful to burn a 1st on.

What you want is irrelevant because Marleau demanded a trade to either SJ or to a team that 100% bought him out. Him grinding out 4th line minutes in your imaginary situation eating up 6.25 was never an option.

 

[ACC1224]

What you want is irrelevant because Marleau demanded a trade to either SJ or to a team that 100% bought him out. Him grinding out 4th line minutes in your imaginary situation eating up 6.25 was never an option.

Correct but it should have been.

 

[TopChedder]

If I were GM I would have just kept him to avoid paying a 1st. Even if he just plays 4th line minutes, he continues to act as a mentor for the young core. Best case scenario someone sees value in him at the deadline and you actually turn him into a small asset.

I would have been looking to trade Kap and AJ that prior season or summer since they were redundant on this team. Then Marleau comes off the books and you still have your own first, plus whatever other assets you collect in those trades I mentioned. Much more effective asset management then what was done.

I was always lukewarm in Muzzin because he wasn't what the team needed. They needed an RHD. Dubas got a guy who some people on message boards claimed could play the right side well, even though those of us who stayed up late to watch Kings games, knew he wasn't effective doing. I don't think the price paid was awful (seems on part to slightly high), but ultimately this player can't stay in the lineup when the going gets tough. 2 of 3 playoffs he's missed critical time. Usually injuries accelerate as players get older. So given that a 1st ++ was spent you would want to get more.

Foligno was just awful to burn a 1st on.

Asset management has been terrible for this Leafs team.

You want to see proper management watch the Raps & Jays, so well run.

Hell the Jays are LITERALLY oozing with elite talent prospect wise, and still have an offensive amount of talent in the bigs.

The Leafs don't know their head from their ass.

 

[Jozay]

They should finally give Liljegren a shot.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

How ? With who? Who did the leafs draft that could make an impact on the Marlies?

SDA, Abramov, Kral, and Steeves (not drafted but he is in that age range) are the secondary group.

Kral may be on the bottom pairing behind Sandin and Rubins next year. I have SDA and Steeves in the top 9. Abramov on the 4th line.

If we expand to AHL contracts, we have Gogolev, who put up almost a PPG as an AHL contract last year and should have an inside track to a middle-6 role (and possibly an ELC) next year. We will see if Brazeau and Elynuik are back (although neither were very good last year) but we will be getting Jeremy McKenna, Noel Hoefenmayer, and Riley McCourt back in addition to newcomer Ryan Chyzowski, who is touted for his hard work and leadership with a very vanilla, but solid, all-around game. Some of these guys may be in the rotation next year, and I even have McKenna on our 4th line.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Asset management has been terrible for this Leafs team.

You want to see proper management watch the Raps & Jays, so well run.

Hell the Jays are LITERALLY oozing with elite talent prospect wise, and still have an offensive amount of talent in the bigs.

The Leafs don't know their head from their ass.

Baseball is a completely different ballgame (pun intended) when it comes to asset management. They have 2.5x as many prospects in general, and I don't think they have more than 10 blue chip prospects.

As for the Raptors, they develop guys similarly to the Leafs. They bring unheralded guys in, put them in the rotation or in the D-League for a few years, and watch as some of them grow and some of them don't. It's no different than what the Leafs did with Holl, Moore, Johnsson, Engvall, etc. Obviously, given there are a lot fewer players in Basketball in general, it means a lot more to the Raptors if you uncover a Van Vleet than if you make an similar find in the NHL.

The Leafs been fairly good at developing talent internally, especially since we received practically nothing from the 2015-2017 drafts under Hunter (to this point) besides our top guys. We've fortunately supplanted ourselves with UD guys like Moore, Mikheyev, Holl, etc.

 

[horner]

Asset management has been terrible for this Leafs team.

You want to see proper management watch the Raps & Jays, so well run.

Hell the Jays are LITERALLY oozing with elite talent prospect wise, and still have an offensive amount of talent in the bigs.

The Leafs don't know their head from their ass.

It's a crime that Shanahan had pissed away this incredible opportunity.

Signing JT was not a good move before getting the big 3 signed.

Keeping our ufas was a mistake

Not building our defense was a mistake .

Not getting a mix of players in the draft was a mistake.

Shanahan you pissed it all away.

 

[sparxx87]

What you want is irrelevant because Marleau demanded a trade to either SJ or to a team that 100% bought him out. Him grinding out 4th line minutes in your imaginary situation eating up 6.25 was never an option.

And? Marleau was under contract. Leafs were under no obligation.

I don’t blame Marleau for wanting a trade after the Leafs hired a stick boy to run the team, but Dubas was soft and gave in. Traded a 1st to move a player that shouldn’t have moved if that was the cost.

Johnsson and Kapanen were gone either way with his cap structure - They should have been moved one offseason earlier.

Dubas’ solution cost them Seth Jarvis or another prospect in that range.

 

[sparxx87]

Baseball is a completely different ballgame (pun intended) when it comes to asset management. They have 2.5x as many prospects in general, and I don't think they have more than 10 blue chip prospects.

As for the Raptors, they develop guys similarly to the Leafs. They bring unheralded guys in, put them in the rotation or in the D-League for a few years, and watch as some of them grow and some of them don't. It's no different than what the Leafs did with Holl, Moore, Johnsson, Engvall, etc. Obviously, given there are a lot fewer players in Basketball in general, it means a lot more to the Raptors if you uncover a Van Vleet than if you make an similar find in the NHL.

The Leafs been fairly good at developing talent internally, especially since we received practically nothing from the 2015-2017 drafts under Hunter (to this point) besides our top guys. We've fortunately supplanted ourselves with UD guys like Moore, Mikheyev, Holl, etc.

Bullshit.

Raptors have built a gritty culture based on defense, competitiveness and toughness. They were sometimes seen as overachievers and regularly performed greater than the sum of their parts.

The Leafs are nothing like the Raptors. These comparisons only show you don’t follow/understand one/both sports.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I'd imagine Dubas will sign more guys who are the best players in the world outside of the NHL. We'll play them two or three games over a 6 month period. They'll be very underwhelming. We'll then trade them away for someone useless, because they'll get sad.

 

[NewEraGM]

SDA, Abramov, Kral, and Steeves (not drafted but he is in that age range) are the secondary group.

Kral may be on the bottom pairing behind Sandin and Rubins next year. I have SDA and Steeves in the top 9. Abramov on the 4th line.

If we expand to AHL contracts, we have Gogolev, who put up almost a PPG as an AHL contract last year and should have an inside track to a middle-6 role (and possibly an ELC) next year. We will see if Brazeau and Elynuik are back (although neither were very good last year) but we will be getting Jeremy McKenna, Noel Hoefenmayer, and Riley McCourt back in addition to newcomer Ryan Chyzowski, who is touted for his hard work and leadership with a very vanilla, but solid, all-around game. Some of these guys may be in the rotation next year, and I even have McKenna on our 4th line.

Is this a joke??

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I mean. What else is left? With 50% of the cap going to 4 forwards you have to try this.

Trade one.

 

[Mess]

"Play the Kids" as that is really the last option now.

Leafs are going to need the cheap contracts and hopefully the youthful enthusiasm provides a spark.

Thornton out and Robertson in & Bogosian out and Sandin in & Hyman out and Joey Andersen in, Hallander out and McCann in.