Speculation: Can this be the year that Dubas/Keefe rely heavily on prospects to play bigger roles?

[ottomaddox]

I mean. What else is left? With 50% of the cap going to 4 forwards you have to try this.

It worked for Lou/Babcock not too long ago. Let's see them try it.

Time for Robertson, Liljegren, Sandin, etc. to step in and Plough.

We can't just rely on Spezza and Simmonds to be there through and through. We can't have a Joe Thornton (skating in mud) situation again.

How could they hurt you? They can't at this point.

Can you see it?

Click to read more...

 

[The CyNick]

Leafs are a funny case.

They used to have tons of offensive depth, including elite level prospects that had not yet reached their peak.

Now those elite prospects have peaked. All the depth is gone and replaced with one aging vet at $11M.

So yeah, you need some young blood to fill in the gaps. But it's asking a lot of a prospect pool that to me at least seems average to weak. Some guys have potential (maybe), but the Leafs are out of sure fire can't miss prospects. They're in the realm of fingers crossed hope they turn into something.

When you add that to the fact that Dubas has been firing away 1st round picks with little to no return (1st ++ for Muzzin who has been hurt in multiple playoff runs, 1st wasted on getting rid of Marleau unnecessarily, 1st for Foligno with no return on investment), it means the chances are going to be slim to have cheap contributors come in for the next 3 years or more.

If guys like Robertson or Amirov don't pan out like some optimistic folks in here claim, this team could be very quickly back to square one.

If Matthews leaves as I suspect he will (i believe he is going to California, Vegas or Arizona), and Marner decides he likes the life of anonymity as I suspect he will, then the Leafs will be left with a broken down Tavares and Nylander to build around and everyone will be asking what the heck happened.

And that's just on the skill front, which this team was supposed to be built on. It doesnt address the issues with toughness, their D or goaltending. All of which have major major flaws.

 

[Cams]

Leafs are a funny case.

They used to have tons of offensive depth, including elite level prospects that had not yet reached their peak.

Now those elite prospects have peaked. All the depth is gone and replaced with one aging vet at $11M.

So yeah, you need some young blood to fill in the gaps. But it's asking a lot of a prospect pool that to me at least seems average to weak. Some guys have potential (maybe), but the Leafs are out of sure fire can't miss prospects. They're in the realm of fingers crossed hope they turn into something.

When you add that to the fact that Dubas has been firing away 1st round picks with little to no return (1st ++ for Muzzin who has been hurt in multiple playoff runs, 1st wasted on getting rid of Marleau unnecessarily, 1st for Foligno with no return on investment), it means the chances are going to be slim to have cheap contributors come in for the next 3 years or more.

If guys like Robertson or Amirov don't pan out like some optimistic folks in here claim, this team could be very quickly back to square one.

If Matthews leaves as I suspect he will (i believe he is going to California, Vegas or Arizona), and Marner decides he likes the life of anonymity as I suspect he will, then the Leafs will be left with a broken down Tavares and Nylander to build around and everyone will be asking what the heck happened.

And that's just on the skill front, which this team was supposed to be built on. It doesnt address the issues with toughness, their D or goaltending. All of which have major major flaws.

Why keep him, when he was not contributing much anymore, and was taking up a lot of cap space, and they needed cap space to sign the younger skill guys. I don't see how getting rid of Marleau was unnecessary? Also, getting Muzzin was a good deal. He is perfectly fine on the blueline - in fact, aside from getting Brodie this past season, Muzzin is their best defenseman - so that there does actually address the D, and he does provide grit too.

 

[The CyNick]

Why keep him, when he was not contributing much anymore, and was taking up a lot of cap space, and they needed cap space to sign the younger skill guys. I don't see how getting rid of Marleau was unnecessary? Also, getting Muzzin was a good deal. He is perfectly fine on the blueline - in fact, aside from getting Brodie this past season, Muzzin is their best defenseman - so that there does actually address the D, and he does provide grit too.

If I were GM I would have just kept him to avoid paying a 1st. Even if he just plays 4th line minutes, he continues to act as a mentor for the young core. Best case scenario someone sees value in him at the deadline and you actually turn him into a small asset.

I would have been looking to trade Kap and AJ that prior season or summer since they were redundant on this team. Then Marleau comes off the books and you still have your own first, plus whatever other assets you collect in those trades I mentioned. Much more effective asset management then what was done.

I was always lukewarm in Muzzin because he wasn't what the team needed. They needed an RHD. Dubas got a guy who some people on message boards claimed could play the right side well, even though those of us who stayed up late to watch Kings games, knew he wasn't effective doing. I don't think the price paid was awful (seems on part to slightly high), but ultimately this player can't stay in the lineup when the going gets tough. 2 of 3 playoffs he's missed critical time. Usually injuries accelerate as players get older. So given that a 1st ++ was spent you would want to get more.

Foligno was just awful to burn a 1st on.

 

[tronoleaf]

Like Liljegren taking Holl's spot?

Nope.

 

[ottomaddox]

Like Liljegren taking Holl's spot?

Nope.

No. Like possibly Liljegren taking Bogosian's spot.

That being said why the f*** does Toronto hang on to him if he has no place on this team?

I did mention other players that can fill in.

Why can't this happen? The whole salary structure and team building structure was supposed to make this happen. What is wrong with this team?!

 

[Mickey Marner]

Definitely a big year for Sandin and Liljegren as their ELCs are up. They either need to make the team or be traded before their value tanks. Idk whether or not Robertson can be an impact player yet, but hopefully he can make the squad.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Liljegren should be in the lineup, I am okay if Sandin/Robertson need a bit of time with the Marlies. But all three should be penciled into the lineup to start the year. Gives us some cap room to upgrade at the deadline if need be.

 

[ottomaddox]

I like this saying:

"I'm not asking. I'm telling."

I think it applies to our prospects. They have to get regular and get good.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I expect Liljegren to fill in for Bogosian and to compete with Dermott for his PK ice time. I also think he competes for PP ice time, and since he has a shot back there, could be a good fit for the Marner PP (while Rielly leads the other unit with Nylander and Co.).

Joey Anderson should have a good shot. Brooks likely competes with Semyonov for the 4C job.

That is it for this year I think.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Leafs are a funny case.

They used to have tons of offensive depth, including elite level prospects that had not yet reached their peak.

Now those elite prospects have peaked. All the depth is gone and replaced with one aging vet at $11M.

So yeah, you need some young blood to fill in the gaps. But it's asking a lot of a prospect pool that to me at least seems average to weak. Some guys have potential (maybe), but the Leafs are out of sure fire can't miss prospects. They're in the realm of fingers crossed hope they turn into something.

When you add that to the fact that Dubas has been firing away 1st round picks with little to no return (1st ++ for Muzzin who has been hurt in multiple playoff runs, 1st wasted on getting rid of Marleau unnecessarily, 1st for Foligno with no return on investment), it means the chances are going to be slim to have cheap contributors come in for the next 3 years or more.

If guys like Robertson or Amirov don't pan out like some optimistic folks in here claim, this team could be very quickly back to square one.

If Matthews leaves as I suspect he will (i believe he is going to California, Vegas or Arizona), and Marner decides he likes the life of anonymity as I suspect he will, then the Leafs will be left with a broken down Tavares and Nylander to build around and everyone will be asking what the heck happened.

And that's just on the skill front, which this team was supposed to be built on. It doesnt address the issues with toughness, their D or goaltending. All of which have major major flaws.

I don't think any of our elite prospects have peaked as you suggest, certainly not Matthews who's still improving. Nylander showed he has another level to get to based on his play in the playoffs. Marner is what he is, and has perhaps reached his limit.

 

[Kiwi]

I expect Liljegren to fill in for Bogosian and to compete with Dermott for his PK ice time. I also think he competes for PP ice time, and since he has a shot back there, could be a good fit for the Marner PP (while Rielly leads the other unit with Nylander and Co.).

Joey Anderson should have a good shot. Brooks likely competes with Semyonov for the 4C job.

That is it for this year I think.

I think Robertson might get a shot if he can stay fit

 

[The CyNick]

I don't think any of our elite prospects have peaked as you suggest, certainly not Matthews who's still improving. Nylander showed he has another level to get to based on his play in the playoffs. Marner is what he is, and has perhaps reached his limit.

I have a good handle on what each guy is.

 

[The Iceman]

I think in the hockey universe there are lots of quality 3-4th liners and 5-6-7 Dmen that are easily and cheaply available.
Lets hope management finds them.

Using Ben Hutton as an example. He only played a handful of games but was a useful plug -in-play player IMO.
I watched Mike Reilly with Boston. He was playing 20 mins + for them.
There must be lots of these types out there.

 

[Racer88]

Leafs are a funny case.

They used to have tons of offensive depth, including elite level prospects that had not yet reached their peak.

Now those elite prospects have peaked. All the depth is gone and replaced with one aging vet at $11M.

So yeah, you need some young blood to fill in the gaps. But it's asking a lot of a prospect pool that to me at least seems average to weak. Some guys have potential (maybe), but the Leafs are out of sure fire can't miss prospects. They're in the realm of fingers crossed hope they turn into something.

When you add that to the fact that Dubas has been firing away 1st round picks with little to no return (1st ++ for Muzzin who has been hurt in multiple playoff runs, 1st wasted on getting rid of Marleau unnecessarily, 1st for Foligno with no return on investment), it means the chances are going to be slim to have cheap contributors come in for the next 3 years or more.

If guys like Robertson or Amirov don't pan out like some optimistic folks in here claim, this team could be very quickly back to square one.

If Matthews leaves as I suspect he will (i believe he is going to California, Vegas or Arizona), and Marner decides he likes the life of anonymity as I suspect he will, then the Leafs will be left with a broken down Tavares and Nylander to build around and everyone will be asking what the heck happened.

And that's just on the skill front, which this team was supposed to be built on. It doesnt address the issues with toughness, their D or goaltending. All of which have major major flaws.

The only thing I disagree with, is most of us will know what happened. We are watching it unfold in real time. Dubas bet our entire hopes on a really crappy way to build a team and Shanny enabled him.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I like this saying:

"I'm not asking. I'm telling."

I think it applies to our prospects. They have to get regular and get good.

Sometimes you need help getting regular

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think Robertson might get a shot if he can stay fit

Maybe, but I see him having to steal a spot. We should be going in with 12 guys ahead of him and maybe he takes a job from Anderson or a bargain bin UFA like Bunting or Galchenyuk.

 

[Menzinger]

Unfortunately there's not a lot coming from those 2015-2017 draft classes for the team (when they're supposed to be in the age range of guys making their debut seasons) outside of maybe Liljegren and the last couple draft s are still pretty raw with longer term projects. Robertson probably starts in the AHL to get his feet wet again but likely sees a callup before too long.

I suspect Sandin and Lily will be given an opportunity to cement a roster spot with camp and finally a proper preseason.

 

[ShaneFalco]

No because they'll have Simmonds and this years Thornton playing every day trying to instill something the 40 mill core lacks

 

[egd27]

I think in the hockey universe there are lots of quality 3-4th liners and 5-6-7 Dmen that are easily and cheaply available.
Lets hope management finds them.

Using Ben Hutton as an example. He only played a handful of games but was a useful plug -in-play player IMO.
I watched Mike Reilly with Boston. He was playing 20 mins + for them.
There must be lots of these types out there.

Is this not what the massive investment in analytics is supposed to be providing or are we just paying these guys to tell us the data says we should win more often?

 

[Kiwi]

Maybe, but I see him having to steal a spot. We should be going in with 12 guys ahead of him and maybe he takes a job from Anderson or a bargain bin UFA like Bunting or Galchenyuk.

Are we presuming Anderson is getting a job but Robertson isn't?

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

I am excited to see what prospects step up during training camp. This is the year for a couple surprises from prospects or PTOs imo.

 

[tronoleaf]

Sometimes you need help getting regular

 

[Cleetus]

Sometimes you need help getting regular

heard Bran Muffins help in that regard

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Are we presuming Anderson is getting a job but Robertson isn't?

I think he has a better chance. He is more of a natural fit for a bottom 6 role, and as it stands I like his chances of beating out Simmonds for a job.

I don't think the Leafs go into next year with Robertson penciled in the top 6, and I don't think we go in with a Simmonds quality guy in the top 6 if Robertson is not ready.