tony d
Registered User
I can't see them stopping them. In any event I think a new owner steps up in Ottawa and takes over the Sens' ownership.
Can the NHL STOP Melnyk from moving to Quebec City ( or anywhere else )?
- Thread starter Fenway
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BonkTastic
ಠ_ಠ
I used to work for the team. I was a "gameday" guy.
So far have spoken to 2 employees who have been "gameday" guys for over a decade each. Two of the guys whose word I'd trust the most out of any of the event staff in the building.
Basically they laughed at the idea that this team is going anywhere. Hadn't even heard anything about it.
I mean, I'm just a guy on the internet, but take it for what it's worth.
What can't be overlooked is the January 15th deadline that was imposed by the National Capital Commission and possibly starting the bid process from scratch.
What if Melnyk is offered the arena rent-free in a deal similar to what the NBA Celtics have in Boston? Quebecor might consider that a better option than forking over at least $500 M USD to own a team. They could write into the lease they have first option to buy part or all of the team at a later date.
Centre Videotron has another problem to deal with after what happened in a boxing match last week that has people screaming the sport be banned in Quebec.
Editorial: It's time to knock out boxing
Jack Todd: Ban boxing? It's not possible
The owner of that diner is heavily wired into all things Ottawa and he thinks the damage can not fixed.
But there is no escaping that only 13,000 showed up on a Sunday afternoon game with Boston and it appeared that 40% of the crowd were Bruins supporters. Remember what Melnyk said a year ago.
Sens owner Melnyk's relocation talks puts chill on NHL 100 festivities | CBC Sports
Melnyk brought up the possibility of relocation, took a shot at fans and said a new downtown arena might never happen while speaking during the Senators' alumni game taking place at Parliament Hill Friday night. His comments came less than 24 hours before Ottawa hosts the Montreal Canadiens in the NHL 100 Classic.
Melnyk denied rumours the team was for sale, but did insinuate relocation could be considered.
"If it doesn't look good here, it could look very, very nice somewhere else, but I'm not suggesting that right now. All I'm saying is that I would never sell the team."
In the short term HRR would increase by a move to Quebec as tickets would be sold and TV revenue would be at least the same as the existing deal with Bell Media (TSN/RDS) would most likely move with team as both Ottawa and QC are in the same regional zone.
I don't want to see Ottawa lose its team but the situation there reminds me of the final years of the Expos in Montreal. The baseball fans in Montreal stopped going as their hearts were broken by the 1994 MLB strike and then the massive firesale of players and when Pedro Martinez was traded to Boston for a bag of balls that was the final straw. Loria took the blame but it was Claude Brochu who killed the team.
What if Melnyk is offered the arena rent-free in a deal similar to what the NBA Celtics have in Boston? Quebecor might consider that a better option than forking over at least $500 M USD to own a team. They could write into the lease they have first option to buy part or all of the team at a later date.
Centre Videotron has another problem to deal with after what happened in a boxing match last week that has people screaming the sport be banned in Quebec.
Editorial: It's time to knock out boxing
Jack Todd: Ban boxing? It's not possible
The owner of that diner is heavily wired into all things Ottawa and he thinks the damage can not fixed.
But there is no escaping that only 13,000 showed up on a Sunday afternoon game with Boston and it appeared that 40% of the crowd were Bruins supporters. Remember what Melnyk said a year ago.
Sens owner Melnyk's relocation talks puts chill on NHL 100 festivities | CBC Sports
Melnyk brought up the possibility of relocation, took a shot at fans and said a new downtown arena might never happen while speaking during the Senators' alumni game taking place at Parliament Hill Friday night. His comments came less than 24 hours before Ottawa hosts the Montreal Canadiens in the NHL 100 Classic.
Melnyk denied rumours the team was for sale, but did insinuate relocation could be considered.
"If it doesn't look good here, it could look very, very nice somewhere else, but I'm not suggesting that right now. All I'm saying is that I would never sell the team."
In the short term HRR would increase by a move to Quebec as tickets would be sold and TV revenue would be at least the same as the existing deal with Bell Media (TSN/RDS) would most likely move with team as both Ottawa and QC are in the same regional zone.
I don't want to see Ottawa lose its team but the situation there reminds me of the final years of the Expos in Montreal. The baseball fans in Montreal stopped going as their hearts were broken by the 1994 MLB strike and then the massive firesale of players and when Pedro Martinez was traded to Boston for a bag of balls that was the final straw. Loria took the blame but it was Claude Brochu who killed the team.
I wonder if the OP heard this from the same insiders that told members on this board that the Sens were being sold within a month?
Everyone wants to feel special, I guess. This isn’t happening
You do realize this is a City of Ottawa thing, and not a Senators thing, right? Even on the busses they say everything in English and French. Not sure if it’s a law or just universally accepted.
Everyone wants to feel special, I guess. This isn’t happening
You do realize this is a City of Ottawa thing, and not a Senators thing, right? Even on the busses they say everything in English and French. Not sure if it’s a law or just universally accepted.
Mightygoose
Registered User
What can't be overlooked is the January 15th deadline that was imposed by the National Capital Commission and possibly starting the bid process from scratch.
What if Melnyk is offered the arena rent-free in a deal similar to what the NBA Celtics have in Boston? Quebecor might consider that a better option than forking over at least $500 M USD to own a team. They could write into the lease they have first option to buy part or all of the team at a later date.
Centre Videotron has another problem to deal with after what happened in a boxing match last week that has people screaming the sport be banned in Quebec.
Editorial: It's time to knock out boxing
Jack Todd: Ban boxing? It's not possible
The owner of that diner is heavily wired into all things Ottawa and he thinks the damage can not fixed.
But there is no escaping that only 13,000 showed up on a Sunday afternoon game with Boston and it appeared that 40% of the crowd were Bruins supporters. Remember what Melnyk said a year ago.
Sens owner Melnyk's relocation talks puts chill on NHL 100 festivities | CBC Sports
Melnyk brought up the possibility of relocation, took a shot at fans and said a new downtown arena might never happen while speaking during the Senators' alumni game taking place at Parliament Hill Friday night. His comments came less than 24 hours before Ottawa hosts the Montreal Canadiens in the NHL 100 Classic.
Melnyk denied rumours the team was for sale, but did insinuate relocation could be considered.
"If it doesn't look good here, it could look very, very nice somewhere else, but I'm not suggesting that right now. All I'm saying is that I would never sell the team."
In the short term HRR would increase by a move to Quebec as tickets would be sold and TV revenue would be at least the same as the existing deal with Bell Media (TSN/RDS) would most likely move with team as both Ottawa and QC are in the same regional zone.
I don't want to see Ottawa lose its team but the situation there reminds me of the final years of the Expos in Montreal. The baseball fans in Montreal stopped going as their hearts were broken by the 1994 MLB strike and then the massive firesale of players and when Pedro Martinez was traded to Boston for a bag of balls that was the final straw. Loria took the blame but it was Claude Brochu who killed the team.
Also what to keep in mind, with this deadline coming up with the NCC - yes they can start the process over again. Part of that is other people interested in developing the land and either building an arena or at least have a place where one can be built with many options in how the Sens can fit into the picture.
Yes attendance is very bad right now and is the lowest since they moved to Kanata. Considering things have been bad for a while an offer was still made for the team to keep them in Ottawa. I would think prospective owners have a better feel than local diners or team employees.
Senators receive offer for franchise — The Fourth Period
Sure Quebecor can offer free rent to the Sens but they would have to have the league's blessing first. Otherwise, with other local options still available in both ownership and arena (something the Expos didn't have), Quebecor would risk alienating themselves from the league shut out the Nords return for a long long time.
BonkTastic
ಠ_ಠ
What can't be overlooked is the January 15th deadline that was imposed by the National Capital Commission and possibly starting the bid process from scratch.
What if Melnyk is offered the arena rent-free in a deal similar to what the NBA Celtics have in Boston? Quebecor might consider that a better option than forking over at least $500 M USD to own a team. They could write into the lease they have first option to buy part or all of the team at a later date.
Centre Videotron has another problem to deal with after what happened in a boxing match last week that has people screaming the sport be banned in Quebec.
Editorial: It's time to knock out boxing
Jack Todd: Ban boxing? It's not possible
The owner of that diner is heavily wired into all things Ottawa and he thinks the damage can not fixed.
But there is no escaping that only 13,000 showed up on a Sunday afternoon game with Boston and it appeared that 40% of the crowd were Bruins supporters. Remember what Melnyk said a year ago.
Sens owner Melnyk's relocation talks puts chill on NHL 100 festivities | CBC Sports
Melnyk brought up the possibility of relocation, took a shot at fans and said a new downtown arena might never happen while speaking during the Senators' alumni game taking place at Parliament Hill Friday night. His comments came less than 24 hours before Ottawa hosts the Montreal Canadiens in the NHL 100 Classic.
Melnyk denied rumours the team was for sale, but did insinuate relocation could be considered.
"If it doesn't look good here, it could look very, very nice somewhere else, but I'm not suggesting that right now. All I'm saying is that I would never sell the team."
In the short term HRR would increase by a move to Quebec as tickets would be sold and TV revenue would be at least the same as the existing deal with Bell Media (TSN/RDS) would most likely move with team as both Ottawa and QC are in the same regional zone.
I don't want to see Ottawa lose its team but the situation there reminds me of the final years of the Expos in Montreal. The baseball fans in Montreal stopped going as their hearts were broken by the 1994 MLB strike and then the massive firesale of players and when Pedro Martinez was traded to Boston for a bag of balls that was the final straw. Loria took the blame but it was Claude Brochu who killed the team.
1) the January deadline is irrelevant now that Melnyk is suing his development partner for $700mil. That Jan 15th deadline is almost guaranteed going to pass without Melnyk and Ruddy resolving their core issues.
2) There are alot of "what if's" that could play out in this scenario. What if Melnyk is offered a rent-free deal somehwere? I have no idea, I guess we'll cross that road if we ever get to that point. So far, there hasn't been a fart's whisper of noise of this happening, though. I'll worry about that possibility when it happens.
3) "a guy who owns a diner" isn't where I usually get my business news. I mean... That guy probably knows which motorcycle gang you shouldn't piss off, sure, but knowing the restaurant business in this city, I wouldn't trust that info farther than I could throw it.
4) short term HRR would probably increase due to excitement, but if you look at all of the core issues that are a problem in Ottawa, they are doubly worse in Quebec City:
- it's a government city just like Ottawa is (main employer in Quebec is the provincial government), with the same economic realities that comes with that (public service can't buy "corporate" seats, populatiob has almost no "elite" wealth or corporate presence to carry large volumes of ticket sales - mostly a middle-class population.
- smaller population base than Ottawa.
- same issue of close proximity of fans of a hockey legacy team (Habs) eating into potential population fanbase.
Basically, if you had said "Houston" instead of "Quebec", maybe that would have more weight to it. But Quebec is just a worse Ottawa, with the small caveat of being able to generate a temporary bandaid solution of "new team" buzz for a few years.
5) Melnyk already walked back on his relocation talk from that outdoor game. Not that I believe a word he says, but if we are strictly going off of "things Melnyk has said" (which is a poor metric, regardless of what he's saying), then the more recent statement is that this team isn't going anywhere.
6) you could use the Expos example to describe dozens of teams over multiple sports over the past decade. It doesn't mean anything.
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Gil Gunderson
Registered User
The Sun also reported that Karlsson believed a sale was close with Alfie (who he’s very close with) being part of the ownership group days before he got traded, so I wouldn’t say Melnyk is NEVER going to sell the team.
BonkTastic
ಠ_ಠ
I mean... We've been discussing this topic for literally months over on HFSens. If anyone is interested in keeping tabs on these developments, I defilitely invite them to browse the many threads that we have over there that discuss these issues.
There's definitely more... editorialization that happens there, far more than on the BoH boards, but it's still a pretty good primer of the issues.
Erik Alfredsson
Beast Mode Cowboy!
- Jan 14, 2012
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What if the sky were red instead of blue?
Just a bunch of hypothetical. Nobody in there right mind is going to offer Melnyk the kind of arena deal he wants, because nobody is in the business of losing money. Theoretically he could move the team to Alaska if he wanted to, problem is he has no money, and has the inability to work with anyone without pissing them off. Melynk is going to lose LeBreton, and then he's going to have no choice but to sell the Senators.
Just a bunch of hypothetical. Nobody in there right mind is going to offer Melnyk the kind of arena deal he wants, because nobody is in the business of losing money. Theoretically he could move the team to Alaska if he wanted to, problem is he has no money, and has the inability to work with anyone without pissing them off. Melynk is going to lose LeBreton, and then he's going to have no choice but to sell the Senators.
- Feb 5, 2010
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They don’t even need someone to rise from somewhere. There are interested parties, and this is well documented by many insiders and journalists. The basis of this thread is that Melnyk moves the team to QC to spite the city? I mean it’s Melnyk but it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense still. The potential offer for a team in Quebec City would have to be significantly stronger than what he has been receiving. Which I seriously doubt would be the case.
LeHab
Registered User
- Aug 31, 2005
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Was NHL constitution different at the time?
Today:
For sure any owner can challenge this in court but I can't imagine BoG would go down without a fight unless they were happy with the move. Canadian Competiton bureau had no issues with NHL rules restricting relocation back when Balsillie attempted. Albeit scope was mostly territorial restrictions.
Competition Bureau Concludes Examination into National Hockey League Franchise Ownership Transfer and Relocation Policies - Competition Bureau Canada
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The Al Davis moving the raiders lawsuit win vs the NFL says other wise. Legal based on that case the NHL can't do anything about it. Balsillie tried to buy the coyotes through bankruptcy court though and bypass the NHL to move them to Hamilton. A different matter than the previous owner trying to move the team himself.
The Lewler
GOAT BUDGET AINEC
LeHab
Registered User
- Aug 31, 2005
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After Raiders won, Clippers move would bring the antitrust issues of relocation into light again. Ruling was that NBA relocation restrictions do not automatically violate antitrust laws. It is a case-by-case.
NorthCoast
Registered User
- May 1, 2017
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So your going to move the team to potentially sell a couple thousand more tickets over the next few years?
Ottawa attendance is down and yes, Melnyk is the focal point but nowhere near what is the media makes it out to be.
Some attendance facts:
- team dropped from 18.5 to 16.5 about 3-4 years ago because the team changed ticket pricing strategy. I'm not going to go into this at length, but long story short revenues went up even though attendance dropped. They have reversed it a bit this year but not back to where it was.
- Ottawa was at the bottom of the league last year and it's not going to be pretty this year or next. (From a standings perspective.) Go look at Detroit and Vancouver, bottom teams don't sell well.
- we just traded our captain and fan favourite. Ask a hab fan how excited they were to give money to molson after the subban trade.
- and then there's Melnyk
Even if Melnyk stays, attendance will go back up over time. Gate in Ottawa only accounts for less than 40% of revenue.
So after your first years of excitement, your going to have to match what Ottawa can deliver with 500,000 less people in the market.
And then your going to have to make the case that you deserve to keep TV rights in Ontario, which likely will go to a new TO/MON split leaving you with the remains of the current region to split with Montreal.
Good luck with that.
With all due respect I don’t have much faith in your sources OP.
Aside from all the problems with the Quebec market that have already been brought up, any hypothetical rests on the idea that Melnyk can cooperate and play nice with partners in Quebec. It’s particularly important if Boston has supposedly played its last game in Ottawa. For a relocation to happen in time for the team to hit the ice in 2019-2020 Melnyk would have to work very closely with a multitude of people.
He’s shown very little ability to do this. It’s just not happening. Certainly not in time for next season and probably not ever.
Aside from all the problems with the Quebec market that have already been brought up, any hypothetical rests on the idea that Melnyk can cooperate and play nice with partners in Quebec. It’s particularly important if Boston has supposedly played its last game in Ottawa. For a relocation to happen in time for the team to hit the ice in 2019-2020 Melnyk would have to work very closely with a multitude of people.
He’s shown very little ability to do this. It’s just not happening. Certainly not in time for next season and probably not ever.
madhi19
Just the tip!
As long as Quebecor control the arena the Sens are one of the few team in bad shape that I don't see moving to Qc. The TV contract just does not work out. Now if that change, if the city and Quebecor agree one day to end their partnership that would be a big indicator that something is cooking. Now to be fair TVA Sports does have some Sens games as part of their national French package. Could we see a situation where they suck it up for the rest of the current TV contract knowing that they can eventually kick BCE out anyway.
Now if were speculating the big screw you to the league from Melnyk would be Hamilton.
Now if were speculating the big screw you to the league from Melnyk would be Hamilton.
WingsMJN2965
Registered User
- Oct 13, 2017
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Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
The problem, is Melnyk if he moved the team to Quebec he would want control over the team and a % of the arena--Quebreccor is better just to buy him out
Melnyk could look at Hamilton but the arena today is no longer suitable to be a NHL facility as it needs serious renovations. Then you have to pay the Leafs and most likely the Sabres an indemnification fee. QC as a territory is free and clear.
The TV contract in Ottawa is excellent but Bell would jump at the chance to give RDS more inventory and cripple TVAS.
WOW! Ottawa Senators TV deal worth up to $400M
The joker in this is the owner of Centre Videotron - Ville de Québec
The city could go to Quebecor and say we now have another option to get a NHL team and we are canceling your contract. Quebecor could consider legal action but can they risk being perceived by the public of preventing a team in Quebec because they don't own it? They can't afford a PR hit like that.
The city then gives the keys to the arena to Melnyk. Of course, it is a deal with the devil but doing everything the right way hasn't paid off for the city and they are tired of waiting.
voyageur
Hockey fanatic
- Jul 10, 2011
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I think the NHL would rather have the bigger market of Ottawa, and get the Bell TV dollars, while still collecting TVA revenues. Thing is the arena needs to be central. It has worked everywhere else in Canada. No one wants to deal with Melnyk. He can try the same thing that Moyes did, but the NHL controls where its markets are. The only way to get through that is lawsuit threats like ASG had. I don't think Melnyk can make it work. He has become a maverick and a polarizing owner. My guess is he is forced out of the club, and the NHL finds someone to work with in Ottawa. Quebec for its part, while it has the arena, faces the threat of economic instability, based on arm's length crown corporations being a main source of corporate revenue, and their equity is always at the mercy of a federal government that controls transfer payments.
Ottawa is the bigger city but is it the bigger market?
The francophone TV universe changes the equation. The Senators have tried to cultivate the francophone market but with little success and the team being in Ontario might be the reason. No matter what the NHL still has the national French TV rights with TVA for the duration of the deal with Rogers.
voyageur
Hockey fanatic
- Jul 10, 2011
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Ottawa is the bigger city but is it the bigger market?
The Senators have tried to cultivate the francophone market but with little success and the team being in Ontario might be the reason. No matter what the NHL still has the national French TV rights with TVA for the duration of the deal with Rogers.
Nordiques would have access to regions that Ottawa doesn't, mainly the Saguenay, and certainly rallies Quebec as the anti-Montreal team. It would be a kick in the nuts for Bell to lose another market they overpaid for regional rights. TVA, through the Nordiques, would have a far greater reach into the province of Quebec and the francophone Maritimes. Habs would likely take over everything the Sens lose, in terms of media, so it's an interesting trade off. It would amaze me if some kind of indemnity would have to be paid to Bell for their loss however, on top of the franchise cost. I don't think Melnyk is past giving the screw to Ottawa, but he wouldn't be allowed to own the team he moved. He'd have to take his payout. Either way I think Melnyk is out. Just don't know where Ottawa fits. I think the NHL likes Ottawa as a market. Just not its owner.
Ottawa DOES have access to all of Quebec and Atlantic Canada with their regional deal with Bell. Ottawa and Montreal share the same regional footprint.
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