Can the NHL STOP Melnyk from moving to Quebec City ( or anywhere else )?

[Mightygoose]

Who knows if Melnyk tries to approach QC and Quebecor about a lease without the NHL's blessing. QC can refuse to entertain EM blocking a rogue move and making selling to local interests his best option and the new owners complete LeBreton stabilizing the franchise.

I think that would look good in the league's eyes and getting QC moved to the front of the line for the next trouble spot without a local solution.

 

[cbcwpg]

I remember a vote in glendale that was followed in quebec, even the old colisee was to be refurbished for nhl standard while the new arena was built. Maybe Quebec got the same coupon ? That's why expension was deffered, Quebecors opted to use the coupon for the next moving franchise ?

And that's the thing... nobody knows what has been agreed to behind the curtain. Some people get bent out of shape because Vegas and now Seattle got expansion teams ( which makes sense to balance the league ) , but for all we know, QC has been guaranteed the next team in the east that has to be relocated.

 

[Edgy]

Who knows if Melnyk tries to approach QC and Quebecor about a lease without the NHL's blessing. QC can refuse to entertain EM blocking a rogue move and making selling to local interests his best option and the new owners complete LeBreton stabilizing the franchise.

I think that would look good in the league's eyes and getting QC moved to the front of the line for the next trouble spot without a local solution.

The people in QC will lose their shit if that were to happen. They don't care who the owner is, they want a team.

Also, why would QC even do that? The league hasn't exactly been putting them ahead of their own interests, they've been keeping them at arm's length forever and favoring US markets over them every chance they got.

 

[Mightygoose]

The people in QC will lose their **** if that were to happen. They don't care who the owner is, they want a team.

Also, why would QC even do that? The league hasn't exactly been putting them ahead of their own interests, they've been keeping them at arm's length forever and favoring US markets over them every chance they got.

It comes down to the league not wanting to move teams unless all local options have been exhausted. So if they feel there is no real hope for Ottawa, they'll be OK with move to QC.

Considering there are people wanting to buy the Sens, keep them in Ottawa have also shown interest in taking over LeBreton making an arena possible, I believe they'll want to work with them before looking elsewhere.

It would be in QC's best interests not get involved unless they're asked to. It worked well for Winnipeg, the opposite effect happened in Hamilton.

 

[bert]

I didn't realize how bad things were in Ottawa until I was working the game and saw acquaintances who work every home game and they were the ones saying it is over.

Melnyk does have a long term TV deal with Bell (TSN/RDS) but that would not be an issue as Bell would be overjoyed putting Nords 2.0 on RDS2 and TSN in the Maritimes and preventing TVAS (Quebecor) to get stronger in the Francophone TV market.

What we noticed of the announced crowd of 13,000 were close to half were Bruins fans - listen to the crowd



The Sens have tried to appeal to the francophone suburbs of Ottawa but they are too far away from Kanata.

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I believe if Melnyk works out a deal with Bell that would prevent Quebecor from getting TV rights for Nords 2.0 - Bettman would be happy.

Holy shit what a load of BS this one is. You one of the Melnyk bots? You on his payrole what a joke. Do you actually think the NHL thinks Quebec is a better market than Ottawa with a downtown arena?! CLUELESS Half the size of market, ALSO a government town, no mass transit, less private and the average dual home income is 30,000 less. Its crap like this that makes me hate the internet. I have contacts that work for the team everything you said is absolutely false and a flat out lie. Bring a source next time you wanna start making things up.

There are also multiple qualified buyers that want to keep the team in Ottawa why the hell would they move... Makes no sense at all. The city and team is being held ransome by a moronic lunatic.

 

[Fenway]

Holy **** what a load of BS this one is. You one of the Melnyk bots? You on his payrole what a joke. Do you actually think the NHL thinks Quebec is a better market than Ottawa with a downtown arena?! CLUELESS Half the size of market, ALSO a government town, no mass transit, less private and the average dual home income is 30,000 less. Its crap like this that makes me hate the internet. I have contacts that work for the team everything you said is absolutely false and a flat out lie. Bring a source next time you wanna start making things up.

There are also multiple qualified buyers that want to keep the team in Ottawa why the hell would they move... Makes no sense at all. The city and team is being held ransome by a moronic lunatic.

@bert IF Ottawa gets a downtown arena then yes the paragram changes

 

[branch]

If the league could stop Jerry Moyes from moving the bankrupt Coyotes they can stop any move. True North made a knockout proposal to get in the fold, and were given the first opportunity, which was ASG bailing out on hockey. Mark Chipman has become one of the most respected governors since then.

Peladeau is not Chipman. And Melnyk is not ASG. There is a city that wants to build a rink to keep its team, and an owner trying to get rich quick off it. I think he has disgraced a franchise that Bryan Murray made respectable. I can't see him holding on to this franchise much longer. Like I said the league can just take over operation like it has and did in Buffalo. Melnyk's absence from the meetings should be a telling sign of where he stands.

Wait, Melnyk is missing BoG meetings? Probably at the bar, drinking with that fresh, youthful Sens fan liver.

 

[voyageur]

Bettman never tried to stop the Thrashers moving to Winnipeg instead he blessed it and helped make it happen.

I wonder how the media and fans would react to a Canadian franchise moving within the country as opposed to the Evil Americans stealing their game.

Bettman had no recourse to stop ASG from selling the franchise. They had a clause, that I believe was tied to losses. They sold their loss, made a profit on their assets.
Can't say for a moment that Winnipeg hasn't been good for the NHL can you?

Ottawa is a different situation, different demographics. They have a city that is willing to build an arena (hockey first) to keep their franchise. And an owner who is hard to work with. The NHL would be foolish to leave a bigger burgeoning market for a smaller one, with a lot of opposition from the BoG.

Any Canadian franchise that moved would be contentious. I think if Quebec got Calgary there would be a riot, as Canada is divided, more than the U.S, between East and West and between its two original colonies, French and English.

 

[jkrdevil]

Late to the thread, but I’m sure this has been brought up....

Wouldn Melnyk be willing to pay for the cost of years of litigation, while in the mean time having to keep the team in an Ottawa market that would certainly go into the tank once he publicly declares his intention to move (the NHL would certainly get an injunction to prevent the move while litigation was pending).

We know from Phoenix that the league is more than willing to litigate out what it perceives as a core principle. On top of that it is established at this point the league can charge a relocation fee for moving into a new market (how much would be part of said litigation above). It seems trying to move the team to Quebec would cost more than than any revenue boost a move would make.

At that point he might as well sellout and then we know the league controls what happens.

 

[jkrdevil]

The NFL has just had 2 relocations and a 3rd one on the way, no one really thinks of that league is unstable. They may have issues but franchise stability is not one of them.

In all 3 of those cases, these we're owners that moved the teams themselves to new markets and in all cases they either were able to build their own stadium (Rams) or had leases in place in the new location.

Bringing this back to Ottawa, Melnyk has neither. Even in the OP it suggests a sale would happen after he moves to QC so there isn't a scenario where he can move and keep 100% of the team. With at least one local offer made, the NHL would have a huge PR issue on their hand if they allowed the team to move with even a partial sale involved.

If we are going to use the recent NFL relocations as an example, it should be noted that the league controlled the process 100% of the way.

 

[mouser]

Late to the thread, but I’m sure this has been brought up....

Wouldn Melnyk be willing to pay for the cost of years of litigation, while in the mean time having to keep the team in an Ottawa market that would certainly go into the tank once he publicly declares his intention to move (the NHL would certainly get an injunction to prevent the move while litigation was pending).

Not a chance. The NHL wouldn’t be able to get an injunction blocking Melnyk from moving the team, unless there’s some unknown contract between Melnyk and the NHL that’s never been made public which would allow the NHL to block the move.

In situations like this the courts would allow the move on legal principles of equity and the NHL has the right to possibly receive compensation later.

We know from Phoenix that the league is more than willing to litigate out what it perceives as a core principle. On top of that it is established at this point the league can charge a relocation fee for moving into a new market (how much would be part of said litigation above). It seems trying to move the team to Quebec would cost more than than any revenue boost a move would make.

At that point he might as well sellout and then we know the league controls what happens.

Phoenix doesn’t matter for a possible Ottawa move other then the court acknowledging the NHL has the rights to a relocation fee. If the two sides disagree on the amount of the relocation fee then that could end up in the courts.

 

[TheLegend]

Wow.

I had suggested ages ago that TNSE, by virtue of helping the League with the Coyotes bankruptcy saga, jumped to the first in line for a franchise. It's nice to see the confirmation.

Not only does it blow away the myth that Quebec would have gotten the Thrashers, it blows out that anyone but Winnipeg was getting the next relocated team.

Odds are.... had Glendale not approved the agreement with the NHL the Coyotes were headed to Winnipeg and the Thrashers more than likely would have ended up in QC. When you think about that scenario it does clean up a lot of issues for the league, and the Jets/Coyotes franchise.

Have to remember the Thrashers saga came many months after that Glendale vote.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

There's a lot of good debate in this thread.

But almost every scenario regarding relocation assumes that Melnyk has some financial resources still available to him. I don't think those outside the market have fully grasped that their is a very real possibility that Melnyk is almost broke. I don't care what the scheme is, they all need some kind of financial foundation that Melnyk may very well not have anymore. Moving all the players, their families, re-hiring, re-branding, any league relocation costs, paying salaries while some revenue streams (ad deals, season tickets, etc) are being re-negotiated/sold, etc. etc. etc. There are hard costs in the tens of millions regardless of where he goes.

Wait, isn't Melnyk a billionaire? No, he's not. Not anymore. Not since he sold his 1b valued Biovail stock for 15o mil. Not since he lost 100 mil on his horses. Not since he gave 50% away (and pretty much all of his liquid assets not hidden in the Barbados) to his wife in divorce.

The rumors of his cost cutting rampages through the organization are well beyond where there's smoke, there is fire.
- Any big $ execs let go and replaced with cheap alternatives with little to no experience in sports management
- Any contract that is not 100% required is shipped out/waived, etc.
- Pro scout travel budget cut, now they rely solely on tape (wonder why we keep getting bent over in trades)
- Legend of a fight between EK and EM over an Uber bill
- Many, many stories from current employees about Melnyk coming in and questioning every costs...down to stationary use.
- Not willing to offer EK a front-loaded, bonus structured contract ala Tavares, because it would require paying out millions in advance of when revenues come in to cover the cost.
- Cannot cover the carrying costs of a loan to get the new arena built. Read that again, condo's will pay for the arena, but they might take 10-15 years to sell, so he has to be able to cover the loan for 10-15 years. 5-10 mil per year, so 100-200 mil for his new stadium. Team revenues if he wasn't hated could possibly even cover this...yet still he can't get it approved.
- Not able to hire a team capable of pulling off any major capital project (casino, soccer stadium, Lebreton, etc)

Team statements and debt increase show the team was losing around 10 mil per year until 2013-2014. Note this was not out of Melnyk's pocket...the team just accumulated more debt. The Nat TV deal and local TV deal increase revenues by 20-30 mil with no increase in costs. None of that additional money went into player budget, ops budget, stadium improvements, etc. Where did the money go?

Yes, Of course I could be wrong and maybe he still has a few hundred mil on Canadian or US soil that is liquid and can be used. But there is also a very real possibility that he is hanging on by a thread financially, living off the team and any additional credit that was created in the recent re-financing.

What about a minority owner? Would you buy into this...with this guy...at the overvalued price he wants...when he might drive the team into bankruptcy or move it to another market?

This is why he need a free stadium AND a piece of the larger development. Because he needs cash for the cash flow needed to run the organization.

He still has lots of options. But it very well be that in any scenario, whoever he partners with may have to cover all the immediate cash flow/costs, and offer a revenue stream on top of what the team would provide int he short-term. Good luck with that.

Not to mention Eugene losing his mind when Scotiabank demanded he actually pay his debt to their bank back, instead of pushing it off once again, causing him to rip up the arena naming rights agreement and bringing in Canadian Tire out of nowhere.

For a lot of reasons, this thread seems fishy. No media members have even touched on the possibility of relocation for Ottawa, and we're supposed to believe a random HF poster has inside knowledge that the rest of the hockey world does not? And of all people, it's Sens gameday operations? Has OP ever shown factual evidence that he has any sort of reliable sources?

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Shaw Centre's location would've been too good if they planned ahead. What I do understand about Ottawa is how most buildings don't get demolished because they're old buildings, demolishing them would just be wrong. I also learned the other day that there's a law in Ottawa that you can't build higher than the Parliment Building.

I was looking into seeing if making the Shaw Centre large enough for the Senators was possible, but from what it looks like it isn't.

What sucks about all this is Canadian Tire Centre is practically going to waste and will only be used as an event centre in the middle of nowhere.

The Sens have always been such a confusing franchise, and it'll take like twenty years to get that team in line again.

 

[Masked]

Shaw Centre's location would've been too good if they planned ahead. What I do understand about Ottawa is how most buildings don't get demolished because they're old buildings, demolishing them would just be wrong. I also learned the other day that there's a law in Ottawa that you can't build higher than the Parliment Building.

False. The lawsuit Eugene filed against his partners was because of a condo tower much higher than the Parliament Buildings.

I was looking into seeing if making the Shaw Centre large enough for the Senators was possible, but from what it looks like it isn't.

Well the Senators pay in an arena and Shaw Centre is a convention centre so of course it isn't possible.

What sucks about all this is Canadian Tire Centre is practically going to waste and will only be used as an event centre in the middle of nowhere.

It is what it has always been since it was built. The home of the Senators.

The Sens have always been such a confusing franchise, and it'll take like twenty years to get that team in line again.

If Eugene sells it would be more like 2o days to get the team in line again.

 

[branch]

Shaw Centre's location would've been too good if they planned ahead. What I do understand about Ottawa is how most buildings don't get demolished because they're old buildings, demolishing them would just be wrong. I also learned the other day that there's a law in Ottawa that you can't build higher than the Parliment Building.

I was looking into seeing if making the Shaw Centre large enough for the Senators was possible, but from what it looks like it isn't.

What sucks about all this is Canadian Tire Centre is practically going to waste and will only be used as an event centre in the middle of nowhere.

The Sens have always been such a confusing franchise, and it'll take like twenty years to get that team in line again.

There's buildings here taller than Parliament. We have more skyscrapers than Winnipeg. You just need approval. And on your second point, it won't take 20 years, keep your hyperbole to the main board. As soon as a sale happens the team will be reputable again, and I don't even know why I'm replying to this, it isn't even on subject. [mod]

 

[Melrose Munch]

Wow.

I had suggested ages ago that TNSE, by virtue of helping the League with the Coyotes bankruptcy saga, jumped to the first in line for a franchise. It's nice to see the confirmation.

Not only does it blow away the myth that Quebec would have gotten the Thrashers, it blows out that anyone but Winnipeg was getting the next relocated team.

How? The plan for Winnipeg was expansion originally. The bottom of the Thrashers just fell out at the wrong time.

 

[These Are The Days]

Doesn't the league have to sign off on the move and sale if the Sens relocated to QC and Melnyk ditched later? I have a very hard time believing the coup is going to work.

If QC wants the Nords via Ottawa they need to do it ala True North and whoever the owner is needs to start kicking tires on getting partners and funding now to be ready for a sale by the end of spring.

That on the other hand might work and go down a lot cleaner. But I have to imagine the NHL will not approve the sale if potential owners in Ottawa step forward

 

[edog37]

Other than demanding some kind of indemnification, would the Leafs or Sabres be able to stop him?

And yes, the arena is also a problem. Melnyk's not a developer and he's proved in Ottawa that he's incapable of getting projects off the ground (casino, soccer stadium, Lebreton), so it's hard to see him doing anything in the GTHA.

I only brought this up because if he really wanted to mess with Bettman's NHL and relocate the Sens against the league's wishes, he should go for broke and bring the franchise to southern Ontario where it would be far more valuable than in QC.

Yes the Leafs & Sabres could prevent it. They’ve done a good job so far & they both have far more resources than Melnyk. I do agree the franchise would be worth more there than in QC.