Can someone please explain the JVR love in to me?

[HarrisonFord]

He's just not engaged the last few months. He's a really good hockey player when he wants to be though

 

[hotpaws]

^not picking on you specifically, but this is the very problem with our fanbase.

Snap judgments made on impulse. Has he been pathetic? Sure. Should we sign off on him as remaining pathetic for the rest of his career? Hell no.

Plus he's not the only one who has struggled here. Would be much easier to zero in on him & criticize him with a grandstroke if the team was firing on all cylinders and he was struggling. But that's not the case.

true but you can use that excuse for every one of our players

 

[King Leaf]

Absolutely agree on Bozak, mostly on Kessel. I'm actually more intrigued to see what a coach like Babcock could do with a guy like Kessel.

I can see the 'wait and see' approach with JVR, fair enough, but why do so many here include him as an essential building block? How many myths about his play are accepted as truth? People include him in the same category as Phil Kessel or better based on what? How many sentences about JVR (even above) start with the word IF?

That's my point though, I think you're seeing Kessel at his peak performance. I another team he maybe able to hit 40/90, but defensively, along the boards, down low, what you see is what you get. That's not a knock on the guy though, he has tailored everything about his game to play a certain style and he is extremely good at what he sets out to do. A good coachc can only affect Phils game position ally, and even then you're handcuffing from using his skillset to its fullest potential. JvR is a completely different animal. He's got 20 goals and has barely been noticeable. Imagine we got a coachc that instilled a bull in a china shop mentality into him? His production may not increase but other teams will have to play significantly harder to overcome him. There are a lot of 'ifs' to JvR thiugh, which is why I see him as a building block, for now, but not forever.

Agree .....

He needs to be moved as well as he is a big part of the I Do Not Care group.

Last year I said the same thing and had most everyone rip me for saying it.

He is soft and does not compete hard in most games....should be an easy piece to move.

I'm sorry but this kind of attitude isn't contructive in helping the organization. If you find a power forward like this, you work to develop him until you no longer think its possible. Moving him should not e taken lightly. I can't think of 10 players in the league like him, can you?

As mentioned above, because of his age and contract, he is a building block moving forward.

It's logical to hold onto him and see what he becomes

Yeah I don't love the guy, it's just the logical move. Unless someone is offering a Dman like Jones.

no JvR love here. For the past 2 months he's been going through the motions. At times looking like he's doing his best not to break a sweat. He played well last here to make team USA. Besides showing short bursts of speed at rare times, he's an absolutely horrendous skater. Move him while other teams still think he's valuable.

What makes you think he's a horrendous skater?

 

[ALine]

30 goal scorer last year.

Young enough, on a good enough deal, with enough talent and potential upside, that you are okay with holding onto him.

Agree that he's been underwhelming this year, but who hasn't? Bit harsh to be judging the merits of a 24 year old based on ~60 games worth of performances.

I do think he gets a free pass from a lot of ppl here, but I also think he gets that pass because people reasonably believe he can turn into #1 winger

That reasonable belief I don't think is all that reasonable at this point and going forward. It would take a big change in his game and mental deternimantion to be the physical player we all would like him to be. Could he? Perhaps. For me he hasn't shown enough of that for me believe he will become that player. The same question marks still remain from the day we acquired him.

It's an unpopular opinion around here I think, but I'd be more open to keeping our sure fire #1 winger, tentatively.

 

[dimi78]

true but you can use that excuse for every one of our players

It's not an excuse it's a fact for all the players. We have a difficult time in separating loosing as a TEAM THING and not an individual thing.

No piece is untouchable but you use your hockey smarts and start to visualize asking yourself the question what type of player can I get to help get the most out of player X. This is something I've yet to see happen as they constantly move back to playing the trio together for no damn reason at all

Said this a long time ago but JVR should be playing with Kadri...

This season has gone to the craps because for some reason that #1 line can't be broken up longer than 1-2 games. The trio is no good together 5v5 and we keep throwing them together for no reason at all and now they all lost confidence and it's affected there game.

look at these guys man... If you know how to read people from far there's a growing sense of Depression. That's why the give a crap meter is so low right now.

 

[Menzinger]

Define 'capable'.

Jason Blake was also 'capable' of 40 goals. It wasn't very likely however.

Well, he's hit that mark at the age of 25 - and he's already has 21 goals this season. Blake was 34 when he got 40. I'd say the potential is there for JVR to keep scoring at that high pace, while Blake had one really hot year.

 

[The Apologist]

It's not an excuse it's a fact for all the players. We have a difficult time in separating loosing as a TEAM THING and not an individual thing.

No piece is untouchable but you use your hockey smarts and start to visualize asking yourself the question what type of player can I get to help get the most out of player X. This is something I've yet to see happen as they constantly move back to playing the trio together for no damn reason at all

Said this a long time ago but JVR should be playing with Kadri...

This season has gone to the craps because for some reason that #1 line can't be broken up longer than 1-2 games. The trio is no good together 5v5 and we keep throwing them together for no reason at all and now they all lost confidence and it's affected there game.

look at these guys man... If you know how to read people from far there's a growing sense of Depression. That's why the give a crap meter is so low right now.

I don't think you're necessarily wrong with playing him with Kadri, maybe a little Kadri swagger will rub off on JVR.

 

[The Apologist]

That's my point though, I think you're seeing Kessel at his peak performance. I another team he maybe able to hit 40/90, but defensively, along the boards, down low, what you see is what you get. That's not a knock on the guy though, he has tailored everything about his game to play a certain style and he is extremely good at what he sets out to do. A good coachc can only affect Phils game position ally, and even then you're handcuffing from using his skillset to its fullest potential. JvR is a completely different animal. He's got 20 goals and has barely been noticeable. Imagine we got a coachc that instilled a bull in a china shop mentality into him? His production may not increase but other teams will have to play significantly harder to overcome him. There are a lot of 'ifs' to JvR thiugh, which is why I see him as a building block, for now, but not forever.

I don't think bull in a china shop is something you can instill in someone though. You either have it or you dont. JVR is a big boy, he just doesn't seem to care that he is.

I'm sorry but this kind of attitude isn't contructive in helping the organization. If you find a power forward like this, you work to develop him until you no longer think its possible. Moving him should not e taken lightly. I can't think of 10 players in the league like him, can you?

He's not a power forward though. He's an oversized, lesser talented Kessel. He may someday become a power forward, but I would be thoroughly shocked. He's just not mentally that guy.

It's kinda funny though that at the end of the day, you're kinda proving my point. While you're being very honest and reasonable about it, almost everything people defend him with could be used for almost any other player. So many excuses for JVR.

 

[MapleLeaf4ever]

JVR's possession stats are nothing to celebrate about, however he is an incredibly gifted finisher capable of potting 20 G per season. His offensive totals have always been good. Since entering the league he has always maintained ~2.0 P/60 and ~1 G/60 and that rate holds up with his 5-5 ice time.

Defensively he has been quite good at attacking the points and setting Bozak up for SH breakaways. Now one thing We may notice is JVR's most frequent line mate in TO has been Bozak, Whom both Kessel and JVR saw jumps in their Corsi ratings when removed from his line and paired next to Kadri and also become a plus player. Bozak has been a plague on that line for a very long time and we have yet too get a good look at Kadri with those two. Maybe if he is dealt by the TDL we will finally get one.

Finally JVR is on a very cap friendly contract for a top line talent.

Now I also totally get when people say he can go unnoticed for periods of times. However the last couple years I have gotten to watch quite a few Blackhawks games with my GF step-dad. Sharp does the same thing. It's difficult for wingers to get themselves in the game on a frequent basis, only the elite of the elite seem to be able to do it, and usually they get mentioned on name alone.

So that's my explanation of why JVR doesn't really get any flack.
1) young with a cap friendly long term contract
2) consistent production as the #2 guy on the first line
3) low expectations
4) stuck with Bozak and not named Kessel

 

[darrylsittler27]

Oilers rebuild?

Another factor is we are showing a lot of vets the door, we have to keep someone to play with the kids of we could end up doing an Oiler rebuild.

 

[diceman934]

Reilly is soft, no one's pushing him off the door. He's had a bad strech including the entire team, we can't just trade the entire team. Whether you like the team or not, they're are still some players of value here that are worth keeping.

So silly and wrong....Rielly blocks shots and takes hits all the time and competes hard.....the same can not be said for JVR.

JVR would not be the first out the door but he either steps up and competes or he goes....

 

[The Apologist]

So silly and wrong....Rielly blocks shots and takes hits all the time and competes hard.....the same can not be said for JVR.

JVR would not be the first out the door but he either steps up and competes or he goes....

First out the door no, but building block also a no. Glad I'm not the only one who sees this.

 

[diceman934]

First out the door no, but building block also a no. Glad I'm not the only one who sees this.

No you are not the first one.....He simply does not compete hard often enough to consider him part of the solution...he is a very frustrating player to watch as he most often does nothing but watches while on the ice and can do this from the bench!

I say he gets moved Draft day....

 

[RLF]

I could be wrong, but I think if Bozak and Kessel goes and a more heart oriented team is developed, JVR will up his game. He is on a great cap hit for what he brings and has excellent up-side. I would like to keep him and see how he performs once the non-compete core is gone.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

JVR should be the first to go. Is capable of being a complete player, unlike his linemates... but is useless when not getting in front of the net and using his speed and size.

 

[Ari91]

He's been pretty invisible this season, lol.

In the greater scope of things, JVR's main issue is his inconsistency. His age, versatility and contract make him a more attractive piece to hold on to rather than ship off at the first signs of trouble.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

Can someone please explain it to me?
Two thirds of our top line gets ripped apart daily on these boards yet this guy is held up as one of the building pieces.

He's worse offensively than Kessel, not much better than Bozak.

He's apparently bigger and tougher but I don't see it. Guy plays soft, is terrible defensively, is just as guilty of living off Kessel as anyone else and disappears for weeks at a time, but hey he has a good contract right?

I just don't get how so many see him as a building piece while ripping into everyone else?

I don't have a fetish for the guy, actually he has a very lazy and immature attidude on the ice, the type you don't want or need on your team. Not much better then Bozak really? JVR for all his faults (and there are many), he's skilled and a far superior talent then Bozak, JVR at 25 is already on pace for his 2nd 30 goal season, Bozak despite 2 good wingers on his arm can't even crack 20... enough said!

 

[Divine]

JVR is a stud. His speed, size and skill are amazing. It's unfortunate he caught on to the team's slacking mentality.

I remember seeing this guys in the playoffs for Philadelphia, even during the Boston series, pure stud. I would not trade that potential and drive...

 

[Tak7]

true but you can use that excuse for every one of our players

All the more reason not to make a snap judgment on a young player based on a bad few months.

 

[Tak7]

That reasonable belief I don't think is all that reasonable at this point and going forward. It would take a big change in his game and mental deternimantion to be the physical player we all would like him to be. Could he? Perhaps. For me he hasn't shown enough of that for me believe he will become that player. The same question marks still remain from the day we acquired him.

It's an unpopular opinion around here I think, but I'd be more open to keeping our sure fire #1 winger, tentatively.

Why isn't it reasonable?

He's coming off a 30 goal year, and in a "bad" season he's put 20 goals & 20 assists + has 20 more games left.

It's absolutely & entirely reasonable that this is a dip in performance as oppose to some ridiculous regression.

It doesn't matter what he's shown you. His numbers, his age, and his contract point to the obvious.

 

[Quares27]

Several reasons:

1. He's a very good 30-30 type player
2. He's on a good contract
3. He's much more willing to battle and go to the dirty areas than his linemates
4. He's more defensively responsible than his linemates
5. His expectations are lower because we got him for a bad player vs getting Kessel for 2 firsts

JVR is very far from the problem with this team and i'm sure he'd look better if he wasnt playing with 2 guys who are constantly in their own zone

 

[Moncherry]

JVR has all the tools to become an elite power forward in the NHL. He has the skating, the hands, and the size.

But he will never reach his potential. His game suffers from a severe lack of intensity. He has no fire in his belly, he's a floater. He plays like one of those pampered rich kids whose parents would give you hell if you laid a hit on them in junior. What's worse, is that he has demonstrated he has the ability to play with a bit of snarl when he wants. I'll always remember how one game against Pittsburgh it was clear he still had some playoff hatred left over and he stormed up the length of the ice to deck Malkin. He can be effective in front of the net. But most of the time that fire just isn't there. And it isn't about being soft ala Kessel. I can at least understand why Kessel avoids the corners or shies away from contact. He's not cut from that cloth. JVR has the ability to play that type of game but he chooses not to, he just doesn't get engaged. Perhaps he only lives for playoff hockey where he has shown to be far more consistent.

All of that said, he's still a good player. It's just annoying how he isn't as good as he can be and it seems to be mostly down to effort.

 

[glg51*]

Lol why do we do this to any good player we get. You judge him at his lowest point as a leaf and want to trade him. Get a terrible return and watch him thrive elsewhere. Trade him and you will regret it. I guarantee that.

 

[Super Mega]

typical slow developing power forward

this is a hard year to judge any player to be honest...

 

[-DeMo-]

Lol why do we do this to any good player we get. You judge him at his lowest point as a leaf and want to trade him. Get a terrible return and watch him thrive elsewhere. Trade him and you will regret it. I guarantee that.

you do realize he is still on pace for 61 points and 30 goals both would tie career highs infact it would match identically what he did last year 30 goals and 31 assist which was his career best year.

the reason imo is that expectation's. Kessel is scene more as the superstar player and the expectations are that if he plays well the team will win and if he doesn't they lose. since were losing they will blame the best player and he generally deserves blame when your losing, as usually that means he's also struggling.