Player Discussion Cam Fowler

[Sojourn]

I really feel like Bieksa is more careless with Fowler. It's just an impression, but I feel like he made a more concerted effort to play a conservative and careful game with Vatanen. With Fowler, I think he's willing to take more risks, and run out of position a bit.

Personally, I think it should be the reverse, since he has bigger responsibilities with Fowler. That just doesn't seem to be the way it plays out.

 

[Duck Off]

I would add Travis Harmonic and Trouba. Tyler Myers I would consider better as well.

what the af? Myers?

I'm not sure how you call any of these guys as improvements over Fowler. Trouba is pretty much identical to Lindholm in value. Personally I think Fowler is better than both players right now, but both have a strong chance to be better than him eventually.

I really wish Hamonic would be on board with coming to Anaheim. I'd love to move him for something around Vatanen. That would allow Bruce to stop ****ing playing Bieksa so much. Then maybe Murph would try and move him. No way I move Fowler for him though.

The only guys I'd move Lindholm or Fowler for are guys that aren't possible to get.

Doughty
Karrlson
Josi
Ekblad

 

[nbducksfan19]

what the af? Myers?

I'm not sure how you call any of these guys as improvements over Fowler. Trouba is pretty much identical to Lindholm in value. Personally I think Fowler is better than both players right now, but both have a strong chance to be better than him eventually.

I really wish Hamonic would be on board with coming to Anaheim. I'd love to move him for something around Vatanen. That would allow Bruce to stop ****ing playing Bieksa so much. Then maybe Murph would try and move him. No way I move Fowler for him though.

The only guys I'd move Lindholm or Fowler for are guys that aren't possible to get.

Doughty
Karrlson
Josi
Ekblad

Myers is as good as, if not better than, Fowler. Either could end up better, but at this stage its Myers. Stop with the homerism.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Myers is as good as, if not better than, Fowler.

How so?

 

[PhoenyX]

I disagree. Myers is at best, equal with Fowler. I prefer the consistency in Fowler's game too.

 

[Sojourn]

Seriously, what does Myers do better than Fowler?

And if this comes down to advanced stats, I'm going to puke.

 

[Duck Off]

Myers is as good as, if not better than, Fowler. Either could end up better, but at this stage its Myers. Stop with the homerism.

Myers is 2 years older, and if he's better, it's debatable. I personally don't think he is, and it's definitely not a slam dunk. The fact that he's 2 years older, and it's still debatable makes it a clear win for Fowler. That's not "homerism", at all.

 

[dracom]

The only thing Myers has over Fowler is size, that's it.

 

[Sojourn]

The only thing Myers has over Fowler is size, that's it.

And he isn't exactly Zdeno Chara. Myers has never consistently used his size to an advantage.

 

[nbducksfan19]

How so?

Lets see, there is the eye test. But if that doesn't work for you, better Points Per Game, better +/-, Myers actually plays against the other teams top producing lines (i know you all say Fowler does too, but stats do not back that up.) OH and he is a 6' 8" physical presence...Look Fowler could be the better player, but if you don't think they are equal players this year, you 100% are a homer and/or do not watch any hockey outside of Ducks games.

 

[Sojourn]

Bwahaha. A 6'8" physical presence.

And we've already discussed your QoC argument. According to your statistics, Kesler would be the easiest forward to play against. Those are the statistics you're relying on. You've also been shown to be wrong about high end defensemen who have lower +/-, as evidenced by Scott Niedermayer. This is stuff that clearly throws into question those statistics, and how they are used, yet you dismiss it.

 

[Vipers31]

Myers isn't better, by any stretch of the imagination. The last time it was close was his rookie season. He's now playing his best season since, but Fowler was still a significantly better player until the injury. I don't even see a debate with Myers. His size gives him great reach, but he's just as physical as Fowler.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Bwahaha. A 6'8" physical presence.

Anyone who is 6' 8" has a physical presence... Just being that big makes you difficult to move, really not that hard to understand. He is not Pronger or Chara, but he will continue to grow. Also, in the physicality department, he is still infinitely more physical than Cam...

 

[Sojourn]

As for D responsibilities, Myers starts 51% of his shifts in the offensive zone. Fowler starts 42%. There is no defenseman we rely on more defensively than Cam Fowler.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Its always the same argument with Cam. There is no stats or proof, just guys saying "trust me, he is better." If he was as good as all you say he is, what good is it if it doesn't show up consistently on the Stat sheet?

 

[Sojourn]

Anyone who is 6' 8" has a physical presence... Just being that big makes you difficult to move, really not that hard to understand. He is not Pronger or Chara, but he will continue to grow. Also, in the physicality department, he is still infinitely more physical than Cam...

That's simply not true, and I don't know how anyone who watches hockey regularly can say that being tall makes you a physical presence. Myers plays much smaller than he is. He might as well be Cam's size, with the way he plays.

 

[Sojourn]

Its always the same argument with Cam. There is no stats or proof, just guys saying "trust me, he is better." If he was as good as all you say he is, what good is it if it doesn't show up consistently on the Stat sheet?

Wait, so when we show you how the statistics are flawed, you're still going to try to throw them in our face? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

 

[nbducksfan19]

As for D responsibilities, Myers starts 51% of his shifts in the offensive zone. Fowler starts 42%. There is no defenseman we rely on more defensively than Cam Fowler.

Ha, that is more because Myers actually has an imposing shot, which is what you look for on a face-off win. Fowler on the other hand...not so much. Fowler strength is, however, his ability to skate the puck out of the D zone, hence why he starts a disproportionate amount there. That is in now way an indication of who is "better" defensively.

 

[nbducksfan19]

That's simply not true, and I don't know how anyone who watches hockey regularly can say that being tall makes you a physical presence. Myers plays much smaller than he is. He might as well be Cam's size, with the way he plays.

You clearly did not play hockey. Even big guys who are very tall, but not physical, are tougher to play against. Their reach, and presence (pure size) in front of the net, is 100% a factor.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Wait, so when we show you how the statistics are flawed, you're still going to try to throw them in our face? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

Flawed how?

 

[Sojourn]

Ha, that is more because Myers actually has an imposing shot, which is what you look for on a face-off win. Fowler on the other hand...not so much. Fowler strength is, however, his ability to skate the puck out of the D zone, hence why he starts a disproportionate amount there. That is in now way an indication of who is "better" defensively.

Oh it is, huh? So you're the coach now for both teams? You have no idea why one player is getting more offensive zone starts over someone else. You can only speculate, and your claim seems tarnished by the fact Fowler is trusted on the 1st PP unit. If Boudreau didn't believe in Fowler offensively at all, he wouldn't put him out there. He also wouldn't like putting Vatanen and Fowler together when the Ducks need a goal, which is exactly what he does. The evidence doesn't support your claim here.

Starting more shifts in the defensive zone is an indication of trust.

 

[Vipers31]

Anyone who is 6' 8" has a physical presence... Just being that big makes you difficult to move, really not that hard to understand. He is not Pronger or Chara, but he will continue to grow. Also, in the physicality department, he is still infinitely more physical than Cam...

Zero times infinity is still zero.

 

[Sojourn]

Flawed how?

We've been over this. You lean on +/- and QOC, despite both of them being terrible statistics.

 

[Sojourn]

You clearly did not play hockey. Even big guys who are very tall, but not physical, are tougher to play against. Their reach, and presence (pure size) in front of the net, is 100% a factor.

I've played hockey all of my life, and tall guys are not hard to move. Strong guys are, and a guy like Sidney Crosby is significantly harder to move than a Tyler Myers, despite Myers having a huge height advantage.

In fact, in a lot of ways, 6'0" 220 guys are harder to move than a 6'4" guy, at the same weight, because the lower center of gravity can help.

So yes, I'm going to laugh at that absurd notion. Height is not size, or strength. Being tall does not make you harder to move.

Edit: Who do you think is easier to move from in front of the net? Francois Beauchemin, or Tyler Myers?

 

[Vipers31]

I've played hockey all of my life, and tall guys are not hard to move. Strong guys are, and a guy like Sidney Crosby is significantly harder to move than a Tyler Myers, despite Myers having a huge height advantage.

In fact, in a lot of ways, 6'0" 220 guys are harder to move than a 6'4" guy, at the same weight, because the lower center of gravity can help.

So yes, I'm going to laugh at that absurd notion. Height is not size, or strength.

I was gonna say something very similar (despite having a different angle as a goalie). A large frame just means more spread out mass, in itself. A tiny guy with great lower body strength is much harder to move than an averagely built giant. Myers isn't really built truck-like.