Post-Game Talk: Calle Rosen aka The Dream

[bunjay]

Crawford stopped 41 of 42 shots against the Habs the following night, some real beauties and was the games 1st star in Montreal.

Link: http://www.espn.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=400961644

Crawford has played 3 games this year and given up only 3 goals against all year total. We scored 4 goals against their backup goalie.

I'm not complaining, its great we got the win against the Hawks as we played a great game, but no denying we caught a break by facing Hawks backup goalie with 10 career NHL starts. It was a double bonus because we won and then Crawford shutdown the Habs for a loss to a Div rival.

Logical fallacies abound.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Crawford stopped 41 of 42 shots against the Habs the following night, some real beauties and was the games 1st star in Montreal.

Link: http://www.espn.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=400961644

Crawford has played 3 games this year and given up only 3 goals against all year total. We scored 4 goals against their backup goalie.

I'm not complaining, its great we got the win against the Hawks as we played a great game, but no denying we caught a break by facing Hawks backup goalie with 10 career NHL starts. It was a double bonus because we won and then Crawford shutdown the Habs for a loss to a Div rival.

So...Crawford plays the first game of the back to back, and the Leafs lose 3-1. Not only that, but Forsberg gives up four to the Habs the next night, and therefore the Leafs and Habs pretty much have the same record and trajectory.

You're a fountain of logic, Mess.

 

[saltming]

So would it, I'd have him and Carrick stapled together on the bottom pair right now but if Borgman is going to be in the 6 Carrick has to play with him if he's fit

Bad **** is going to continue to happen if our bottom pair has less than 10 NHL games experience, COMBINED

Well bad poop is going to happen no matter what.
I just have always liked Dermott's defensive game. He reads the plays well and had great stick placement.
He has not shown it at the NHL level yet but I see him being more consistent that Carrick

 

[Mess]

Logical fallacies abound.

Corey Crawford is outplaying Cory Schneider this year.

Crawford .. 3-0-0 record 1.00 GAA & .971 sv% ... (3 goals against total on 104 shots)... 2nd best in the NHL.
Vs.
Schneider 3-0-0 record 2.00 GAA & .941 sv% ... (6 goals against total on 116 shots)... 9th best in the NHL.

Conclusion: Leafs caught a break by not having to play Crawford.

Seems logical to me. In fact any time a team gets to play against the backup and not the starter its an advantage by facing a lesser opponent. .

 

[bunjay]

Corey Crawford is outplaying Cory Schneider this year.

Crawford .. 3-0-0 record 1.00 GAA & .971 sv% ... (3 goals against total on 104 shots)... 2nd best in the NHL.
Vs.
Schneider 3-0-0 record 2.00 GAA & .941 sv% ... (6 goals against total on 116 shots)... 9th best in the NHL.

Conclusion: Leafs caught a break by not having to play Crawford.

Seems logical to me.

Chicago opened their season by playing two teams who had played the night before. The correlation between playing a second game in two nights and on-ice performance is well established, and not really up for dispute. It's an advantage for the rested team.

How a goalie performs on one particular night does not tell you how he might have performed in a different game.

Crawford has a career save % of .905 against the Leafs, well below his overall average. 14% below, actually. That tells us nothing about how he'll play against the Leafs the next time.

Crawford has a career save % of under .900 against the Coyotes and Avalanche. Those have never been good teams during Crawford's career, therefor he actually sucks.

You're making extrapolations based on 3 games, which is absurd enough, but you're ignoring every possible factor except save percentage.

 

[PuckMagi]

I don't think that it's useful to look at statistics over a period of 3 or 4 games. Too much luck and variability over such a small sample size.

Ya, it was a crappy game yesterday from a lot of perspectives... tons of penalties... horrible plays by Gardiner and Rosen... etc. Just one of those games.

But we're still 3-1 on the season... we beat a very good Blackhawks team. In the game we lost, we still put up 50 shots to their 31.

We're not going to win every game. This was a game that just didn't seem to go our way.

I thought Dermott was better than basically every defender apart from Gardiner in the pre-season overall. I'm still pretty shocked he didn't make the team. I think he's clearly better than Rosen, Borgman, and Carrick.

Zaitsev, Hainsey, and Rielly have all stepped up their game from pre-season... but Dermott would still be at least our 5th best defender if he replaced Rosen.

 

[IPS]

I don't think that it's useful to look at statistics over a period of 3 or 4 games. Too much luck and variability over such a small sample size.

Ya, it was a crappy game yesterday from a lot of perspectives... tons of penalties... horrible plays by Gardiner and Rosen... etc. Just one of those games.

But we're still 3-1 on the season... we beat a very good Blackhawks team. In the game we lost, we still put up 50 shots to their 31.

We're not going to win every game. This was a game that just didn't seem to go our way.

I thought Dermott was better than basically every defender apart from Gardiner in the pre-season overall. I'm still pretty shocked he didn't make the team. I think he's clearly better than Rosen, Borgman, and Carrick.

Zaitsev, Hainsey, and Rielly have all stepped up their game from pre-season... but Dermott would still be at least our 5th best defender if he replaced Rosen.

They're putting Dermott in the slow cooker. He was without a doubt a top-3 defensemen in camp but they don't want to risk anything with him just yet.

It'll be real awesome having him on ELC when we're competing for cups though.

 

[Bloomberg]

I don't really care that Rosen played bad. I think that is to be expected of rookies. In the long term, I still believe in him. I am worried about the Bozak line however....

 

[Mess]

They're putting Dermott in the slow cooker. He was without a doubt a top-3 defensemen in camp but they don't want to risk anything with him just yet.

It'll be real awesome having him on ELC when we're competing for cups though.

FYI: Dermott ELC is ticking even playing in the AHL, so they're not saving contract years by keeping him on the Marlies.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Corey Crawford is outplaying Cory Schneider this year.

Crawford .. 3-0-0 record 1.00 GAA & .971 sv% ... (3 goals against total on 104 shots)... 2nd best in the NHL.
Vs.
Schneider 3-0-0 record 2.00 GAA & .941 sv% ... (6 goals against total on 116 shots)... 9th best in the NHL.

Conclusion: Leafs caught a break by not having to play Crawford.

Seems logical to me. In fact any time a team gets to play against the backup and not the starter its an advantage by facing a lesser opponent. .

Henrik Lundquist shut out the Habs with 34 saves the very next day after getting bludgeoned by the Maple Leafs.

If he had eaten the same breakfast on the 7th that he did on the 8th, he would have shut the Leafs out as well. Therefore, the Leafs caught a break.

#factz

 

[Kiwi]

Well bad poop is going to happen no matter what.
I just have always liked Dermott's defensive game. He reads the plays well and had great stick placement.
He has not shown it at the NHL level yet but I see him being more consistent that Carrick

It's going to happen way more often if there's zero experience on our bottom pair, when things turn bad in that situation they turn really bad, fast

I don't care who's playing with Carrick, Borgman or Dermott is fine with me but we need some experience, full stop

Jesus things are that bad if Carrick isn't fit i'd call up Marincin, my God I'd even take that plug Polak back at this point

 

[saltming]

FYI: Dermott ELC is ticking even playing in the AHL, so they're not saving contract years by keeping him on the Marlies.

I think a big part of the decision was the fact Rosen and Borgman left a top tier league to have a shot in the NHL. I think certain promises were made and if not kept may have had negative ramifications on future ufa negotiations.

 

[saltming]

It's going to happen way more often if there's zero experience on our bottom pair, when things turn bad in that situation they turn really bad, fast

I don't care who's playing with Carrick, Borgman or Dermott is fine with me but we need some experience, full stop

Jesus things are that bad if Carrick isn't fit i'd call up Marincin, my God I'd even take that plug Polak back at this point

If polak were fit I would drop him in 10 out of 10 times.
The thing with Dermott is he just seems so steady. Even his 1st pro season he just seemed to get it.

 

[firstemperor]

FYI: Dermott ELC is ticking even playing in the AHL, so they're not saving contract years by keeping him on the Marlies.

If polak were fit I would drop him in 10 out of 10 times.
The thing with Dermott is he just seems so steady. Even his 1st pro season he just seemed to get it.

Exactly...not sure why he's not up. We can only speculate:

- Is it because we are trying to overgroom as a prospect because he's a big part of our future? If so, I could understand that. Top pairing duties (including PP usage) can refine his puck skills, skating. Even if he's never going to play PP with the big club, he'll never have those development opportunities again, really.

-Is it because he lost the job straight up in camp? Tough to believe. He was easily better than both Rosen to me. Borgman is on the border, but I thought he was better as well.

-Is it because of other considerations- like trying to perpetuate the Leafs as a hot-bed for international, empty-wallet UFA's? Wouldn't look too good if we signed the Zaits of the world and stuck them in the AHL. They don't come over to play in the AHL....we already did that with Soshnikov.

Or could be any combination of the above...though if Carrick is out for some time, I'd like to see him called up. Rosen was that bad last night.

 

[crump]

That was a bad game for a lot of guys. That's about it. Next week they will all be all-stars again. Most teams take a good 10 games to show what they really are at the beginning of the season. All things being equal, Leafs still have a winning record despite that, so that's good. I feel bad for Rosen, because it's tough enough being a rookie, but in Toronto your last game defines your career.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Yeah it was his best game so far IMO, my post was just complaining about people thinking extra weight = better. But he hasn't looked the same as 1st half of last season Marner, idk if it's a slow start, the extra weight, or less drive bc his linemates play lazy. Hopefully just a slow start.

I agree with what you are saying, still feels like there is something off. Maybe put him on a line he doesn't have to drive himself for a bit. He cant focus on offence if he's gotta be the first one back all the time (Bozak and JVR have not been good defensively)

 

[Pi]

Sure and I agree we do have many good offensive players, but we only have one Auston Matthews.

It's almost depth to a fault because Babcock is plate spinning trying to keep everyone involved - but at some point, especially last night knowing we have two days of rest coming before Saturdays game, find a way to get him out there more.

I completely agree. There are teams like the Oilers that overplay their stars and there are teams like the Leafs that underplay them.

I think Babcock mentioned last season that he doesn't like to play forwards more than a certain amount of minutes because they lack the "pop" in their shifts if they play too much.

I don't agree with it...I feel like it could become an issue when signing contracts etc. Babcock is a good communicator though so I am sure Matthews knows why he's not getting more ice time for now.

 

[Kiwi]

If polak were fit I would drop him in 10 out of 10 times.
The thing with Dermott is he just seems so steady. Even his 1st pro season he just seemed to get it.

If Polak was fit I'd bet we'd have already signed him, it makes me wonder how long it's going to be before he's ready to go

Dermott is just all-around solid, a couple more defenseman like him we'd be getting somewhere

 

[saltming]

If Polak was fit I'd bet we'd have already signed him, it makes me wonder how long it's going to be before he's ready to go

Dermott is just all-around solid, a couple more defenseman like him we'd be getting somewhere

I'm hoping we sign him around Christmas if he makes a full recovery. He could be like a free ufa signing and one that's already acclimated to our system.

 

[Moncherry]

The game was lost when they came out of a full 2 minute 5-on-3 with a negative goal difference.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I completely agree. There are teams like the Oilers that overplay their stars and there are teams like the Leafs that underplay them.

I think Babcock mentioned last season that he doesn't like to play forwards more than a certain amount of minutes because they lack the "pop" in their shifts if they play too much.

I don't agree with it...I feel like it could become an issue when signing contracts etc. Babcock is a good communicator though so I am sure Matthews knows why he's not getting more ice time for now.

well wouldn't it - (if/when we go on deep runs) be a benefit that they played less during the season?
i don't see why playing "less" would be a bad thing especially if you still put up massive points.

 

[Kiwi]

I'm hoping we sign him around Christmas if he makes a full recovery. He could be like a free ufa signing and one that's already acclimated to our system.

I'm hoping we solidify defensively and don't need to resort to such drastic measures

If I see him ice another puck in a Leafs jersey in going to cry

 

[Jeypic]

Exactly...not sure why he's not up. We can only speculate:

- Is it because we are trying to overgroom as a prospect because he's a big part of our future? If so, I could understand that. Top pairing duties (including PP usage) can refine his puck skills, skating. Even if he's never going to play PP with the big club, he'll never have those development opportunities again, really.

-Is it because he lost the job straight up in camp? Tough to believe. He was easily better than both Rosen to me. Borgman is on the border, but I thought he was better as well.

-Is it because of other considerations- like trying to perpetuate the Leafs as a hot-bed for international, empty-wallet UFA's? Wouldn't look too good if we signed the Zaits of the world and stuck them in the AHL. They don't come over to play in the AHL....we already did that with Soshnikov.

Or could be any combination of the above...though if Carrick is out for some time, I'd like to see him called up. Rosen was that bad last night.

1) - I wouldn't say over groom, but I do think he is a big part of our future, and they want to keep him in the ahl for your stated points.
2) - He didn't lose the job at camp.. but he didn't "take" it either. All 3 dmen impressed with potential while making lots of rookie mistakes.
3) - while I'm sure leafs want to look good to free agents.. I doubt we care too much about the ones not good enough to make the team, to the point where we put them on team...

Dermott is the youngest of the 3.. with the brightest future. He looked pretty bad in that last preseason game though. So we're protecting him from the fans who liked Rosen a week ago but hate him today. We're protecting him from the media. We're protecting him from failure. Because this year, his chances of success aren't really much higher then rosens in the NHL. Let him have success in the ahl this year.

 

[saltming]

I'm hoping we solidify defensively and don't need to resort to such drastic measures

If I see him ice another puck in a Leafs jersey in going to cry

Honestly I would rather see that than an endless cycle in our zone.

 

[Kiwi]

Honestly I would rather see that than an endless cycle in our zone.

I'd like it if the other team actually had to cycle the puck to get a decent shot, we're to busy turning over the puck for the other team to have to resort to anything drastic like cycling the puck to get a decent scoring opportunity