Calgary city council approves arena deal (UPD: new deal upcoming?)

[voyageur]

I don't think the saddledome is making that much money to be fair. This project would make way more money.

Absolutely. The key to negotiations is real estate. That worked in Katz's favour in Edmonton, and certainly in Chipman's favour with True North.

I don't know how much drawing into federal infrastructure funding helped spawn arenas in the U.S, I know the practice no longers exists, but it's something that could help future Canadian markets.

Government funding for arenas during a pandemic however doesn't send the message that every vote matters, and I see that being increasingly difficult for years to come.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Here’s an interesting question. Has any team in a market size of Calgary every completely privately funded their own arena or stadium?

 

[MNNumbers]

Here’s an interesting question. Has any team in a market size of Calgary every completely privately funded their own arena or stadium?

Winnipeg?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Here’s an interesting question. Has any team in a market size of Calgary every completely privately funded their own arena or stadium?

I was going to say Anfield in Liverpool, UK but that was 130 years ago!

What about the Sabres and their arena?

 

[Digital Kid]

Libraries have free admission. Also help you learn how to read with the youth programs. Don't get this.

There are libraries and there are libraries. This particular one was made for something like $125 million. I know it's free, but there are free libraries all over the city. The Flames can't play at the local rink flooding a neighbourhood greenspace.

I use the library system extensively. I am fairly well read.

I understand the need for them. They are useful for people getting books, and possibly for people not going to hockey games.

The city needs to have different venues and infrastructure for various different people because various people have different needs and interests.

If we build libraries for bibliophiles, we also need arenas for hockeyphiles.

The current Mayor voted against this new arena when she was a councillor. Current developments make me very suspicious.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Winnipeg?

Is it privately built?

 

[Jets4Life]

There are libraries and there are libraries. This particular one was made for something like $125 million. I know it's free, but there are free libraries all over the city. The Flames can't play at the local rink flooding a neighbourhood greenspace.

I use the library system extensively. I am fairly well read.

I understand the need for them. They are useful for people getting books, and possibly for people not going to hockey games.

The city needs to have different venues and infrastructure for various different people because various people have different needs and interests.

If we build libraries for bibliophiles, we also need arenas for hockeyphiles.

The current Mayor voted against this new arena when she was a councillor. Current developments make me very suspicious.

The problem with this post, is that only a small percentage of Calgarians can afford to go to all the Flames games. It's a upper class hobby. The Libraries are available to everyone, regardless of income. Some of the lower class residents and students rely on the Library system, for obvious reasons.

We can put building an arena 1st on the agenda, ahead of health care, social services, education, etc, but at what point do we as a collective say that a mainly publicly funded $500 million arena is not in the best interests of the community. I know during the time Winnipeg was without an NHL team (1996-2011), the city actually prospered. Additionally, the arena was built at around $150 million, with a large portion being paid for by the private sector.

 

[Jets4Life]

Calgary is a funny city because it is world class in many areas, but their sports and major event facilities are embarrassingly bad and people seem to be just be fine with it. They are almost there as it is, but a few years down the road they won't be host of really any major events because their facilities just aren't suitable. The consequences extend beyond sports and a major city that can't even host a basic concert event is kind of embarrassing and shitty for the people that live there.

I always was perplexed in regards to McMahon Stadium. One would think that if Winnipeg, Regina, Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa, Hamilton, and Montreal are either building new facilities, or spending large amounts of money upgrading their stadiums, a city as rich and big as Calgary would do it too. Yet McMahon stadium has arguably been the worst CFL venue for a decade.

 

[Mike Jones]

The current Mayor voted against this new arena when she was a councillor. Current developments make me very suspicious.

Gondek voted yes. Her main competitor in the recent municipal election voted no.

Link: New arena: Calgary council votes 11-4 in favour of Flames arena deal | Calgary Herald

I find it interesting that people claim that they would vote differently in that election if given the chance. Would they vote for the guy who sided against the new arena?

 

[Mike Jones]

Here’s an interesting question. Has any team in a market size of Calgary every completely privately funded their own arena or stadium?

The recent expansion team in Seattle rebuilt an arena (They came awfully close to starting from scratch but I think they still call it a renovation) with private money. They paid roughly the same amount the Calgary arena would cost. Vancouver's arena was privately funded as well.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

The recent expansion team in Seattle rebuilt an arena (They came awfully close to starting from scratch but I think they still call it a renovation) with private money. They paid roughly the same amount the Calgary arena would cost. Vancouver's arena was privately funded as well.

Seattle is quite bigger than Calgary population wise.

 

[Mike Jones]

Seattle is quite bigger than Calgary population wise.

Seattle's population (roughly 760,000) is just over half of Calgary (1.3 million). Given the size of the respective metro areas (Calgary has two cities on its doorstep plus a rapidly growing and developing county) things pretty much even out.

I don't know much about the Seattle hockey scene but person for person I'd say the Calgary market is stronger.

As far as I'm concerned they're close enough for this discussion.

 

[Fatass]

Seattle is quite bigger than Calgary population wise.

Is it?

 

[Mightygoose]

Here’s an interesting question. Has any team in a market size of Calgary every completely privately funded their own arena or stadium?

Wasn't then Delta Center in Salt Lake City privately funded?

Canadian Tire Centre was privately funded too but greater Ottawa may was bigger than Calgary back then

 

[joelef]

Also many teams in all sports let there stadiums become bad

 

[K1984]

I always was perplexed in regards to McMahon Stadium. One would think that if Winnipeg, Regina, Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa, Hamilton, and Montreal are either building new facilities, or spending large amounts of money upgrading their stadiums, a city as rich and big as Calgary would do it too. Yet McMahon stadium has arguably been the worst CFL venue for a decade.

Not even arguably, it's a disgusting facility that need to badly be mothballed. That stadium is so bad, that I would bet a decent amount of cash that there is no city in the developed world the size of Calgary with its feature stadium that bad.

I was at the Grey Cup in 2010 and it was such a bad experience attending that I was certain that the CFL would never have one there again. They did, but without the expanded attendance thank god. The place isn't designed to handle a full house in even its normal capacity, let alone bleachers that boost the capacity by 20k. Have also been to Labour Day games where people were pissing in sinks. The place is 3rd world.

 

[Fatass]

It’s crazy an owner would think there is a better city for hockey, that doesn’t already have a team, than ?Calgary. Quebec? That’s it though.

 

[K1984]

Seattle's population (roughly 760,000) is just over half of Calgary (1.3 million). Given the size of the respective metro areas (Calgary has two cities on its doorstep plus a rapidly growing and developing county) things pretty much even out.

I don't know much about the Seattle hockey scene but person for person I'd say the Calgary market is stronger.

As far as I'm concerned they're close enough for this discussion.

Huh? Metro Seattle is 4 times the size of Metro Calgary. It isn't even remotely close.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Seattle's population (roughly 760,000) is just over half of Calgary (1.3 million). Given the size of the respective metro areas (Calgary has two cities on its doorstep plus a rapidly growing and developing county) things pretty much even out.

I don't know much about the Seattle hockey scene but person for person I'd say the Calgary market is stronger.

As far as I'm concerned they're close enough for this discussion.

Seattle Metro pop is about 4.5M. Calgary metro last time I checked is about 2m.

Hockey scene is irrelevant in this context so I dunno why you are bringing that up.

 

[Bucky_Hoyt]

Seattle Metro pop is about 4.5M. Calgary metro last time I checked is about 2m.

Hockey scene is irrelevant in this context so I dunno why you are bringing that up.

Calgary's metro in the 2016 census was just under 1.4m. Probably hovering around 1.6m now.

 

[BMann]

My half of the family that reside in Calgary and Lethbridge and who are die hard Flamers but have rarely had the chance to dance about on the Red Mile are not best pleased with the situation of using taxpayers money to fund the new arena. The ructions here of seeing taxpayers money used to fund say a rugby or football stadium would be enough to put off any politicians.

 

[Mike Jones]

Huh? Metro Seattle is 4 times the size of Metro Calgary. It isn't even remotely close.

To be honest I really don't know what that has to do with the need for NHL teams in places like Seattle and Calgary to build their arenas with private money. The principle should apply to franchises in every market, regardless of size.

 

[Mike Jones]

Seattle Metro pop is about 4.5M. Calgary metro last time I checked is about 2m.

Hockey scene is irrelevant in this context so I dunno why you are bringing that up.

I know it's irrelevant and I wasn't the one who brought up the notion that the size of a market should affect whether or not public money should be invested in an arena. The principle should be universal - 0 public dollars for any arena or stadium.

 

[Mike Jones]

It’s crazy an owner would think there is a better city for hockey, that doesn’t already have a team, than ?Calgary. Quebec? That’s it though.

It's the NHL - they think there's a desert somewhere in the US just desperate for their ice hockey product.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I know it's irrelevant and I wasn't the one who brought up the notion that the size of a market should affect whether or not public money should be invested in an arena. The principle should be universal - 0 public dollars for any arena or stadium.

It shouldn't I agree. Just that I think there is a correlation there.