Post-Game Talk: Calgary at Chicago (10/24/2016)

[featherhawk]

Am I the only one who isn't that concerned about this start? They are fine 5-on-5, and that is what's important to me at this point in time. I know it's not ideal, but I'm not worried yet.

not terribly concerned but these guys need to stop taking idiotic PIMs and when they do take PIMS they have to be aggressive and get back to what they did in the past 3-7 years on the PK

I think they will figure it out eventually.

time to send hinostroza down though, he is not ready...if he ever will be

 

[x Tame Impala]

Let me get this straight and let's use 14/15 as an example - having 6 EXTRA points as a result of SO differential has no correlation?

The Hawks finished 2 points ahead of a red hot MN team. If they didn't they would have finished 4th. That would have meant a first round matchup against STL and not having home ice in any of the three playoff series prior to the Cup Finals.

Regardless, it's not as relevant any more since the 3:3 change.

It has no correlation. You can't just artificially shave points off of the standings and assume everything else plays out exactly the same. You have no idea what would've happened either. I can just as easily say that the Hawks would've swept the Blues and still won the cup.

Based on the things that actually did happen, not some hypothetical scenario you're using to keep on complaining so you can stay up on your soap box, it has never hurt the Hawks. If a shootout loss to the Calgary Flames in October is the reason we miss the playoffs then we weren't good enough to do any damage anyway and deserve to be golfing in April.

 

[Easton Modano Curve]

Let me get this straight and let's use 14/15 as an example - having 6 EXTRA points as a result of SO differential has no correlation?

The Hawks finished 2 points ahead of a red hot MN team. If they didn't they would have finished 4th. That would have meant a first round matchup against STL and not having home ice in any of the three playoff series prior to the Cup Finals.

Regardless, it's not as relevant any more since the 3:3 change.

It's like you're trying to explain macro economic principles with micro economics.

I believe what JD said - goal differential is a better predictor of where a team will end up in the standings than SO win percentage. It kind of like the whole idea of run differential and "one run games" in baseball when predicting standings.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

I'm with you.

Considering the number of new faces playing important roles, I'm rather thrilled with how well they've been playing 5v5.

Exactly. It's great to see that. The PK being this bad is more a sign of a systematic problem than a talent problem, and that's a problem I'd rather have. Now, I don't kno how or when they will get that garbage fixed, but if things were to be going very wrong, I'd rather have it be because of poor special teams execution than poor play 5v5.

Same here, but that being said the garbage PK is damn annoying.

Don't care where we end up 1-30 on the PK across the season, but hopefully the final month going into the postseason we're closer to the top than the bottom.

Oh, definitely. It's annoying and needs to be fixed. There are major issues with that right now. It's just, if there was a major problem to have, I feel like the Hawks have the best one. That's weird to say - I know. Id rather them not have a turribad PK, but it seems like a much more fixable problem than if they weren't doing well 5v5.

not terribly concerned but these guys need to stop taking idiotic PIMs and when they do take PIMS they have to be aggressive and get back to what they did in the past 3-7 years on the PK

I think they will figure it out eventually.

time to send hinostroza down though, he is not ready...if he ever will be

Agreed with all of the above.

 

[piteus]

Note to Q ... make sure your penalty shooters have better aim than this guy.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Didn't the Kings literally just miss the playoffs a couple of years ago because they sucked in the shootout?

That year Jaeger was pimping them as cup favorites and said how nearly impossible it would be for the Flames to hold onto their playoff spot.

 

[Easton Modano Curve]

But seriously, what is up with Toews?

He just doesn't even LOOK good out there. Gets muscled off the puck much easier than he used to and loses board battles quite frequently as well.

Corsi, possession, blah blah, I know, but at some point he needs to start actually producing. Not to go all HF50, but 0 goals and 2 assists in 7 games really isn't acceptable production for a 10.5 million dollar player.

Toews will be one of my favorites forever for what he's done for the Hawks. But the 10.5 million is tough to live up to going forward. I don't think it's a matter of effort despite what others say. He doesn't have younger Hossa and Saad/Sharp anymore and I think we won't see the points we are hoping for.

Honestly though, if anyone would make us eat our words it's Toews.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Even the years Toews scored his usual he started slow.

This team with an average PK is pretty damn good. We got a point. On to the next one.

 

[piteus]

Toews will be one of my favorites forever for what he's done for the Hawks. But the 10.5 million is tough to live up to going forward. I don't think it's a matter of effort despite what others say. He doesn't have younger Hossa and Saad/Sharp anymore and I think we won't see the points we are hoping for.

Honestly though, if anyone would make us eat our words it's Toews.

It's not effort. Toews' is trying. Look ... the guy still needs to produce, but his line isn't helping. Motte was awful tonight ... and Panik didn't do much either.

Did you see Toews control the puck in the offensive zone at start of the 3rd period when he had Panarin with him? He can't do crap with the forwards he has around him. I know ... he's paid $10.5mn so it's partly his fault for the surround cast, but man ... his linemates were really bad tonight.

At least Schmaltz can control the puck. Give him a try with Toews. Move Motte back to the 3rd line.

 

[piteus]

At least the Hawks killed off a 4 minute penalty tonight. They were actually aggressive and tried to get into the passing lanes and pressured the puck. They also blocked some shots.

But if I hear one more coach or player talk about "resetting" their penalty kill, I'm going to puke. Seriously, we pushed the reset button on our PK more than a computer with a virus.

 

[Easton Modano Curve]

It's not effort. Toews' is trying. Look ... the guy still needs to produce, but his line isn't helping. Motte was awful tonight ... and Panik didn't do much either.

Did you see Toews control the puck in the offensive zone at start of the 3rd period when he had Panarin with him? He can't do crap with the forwards he has around him. I know ... he's paid $10.5mn so it's partly his fault for the surround cast, but man ... his linemates were really bad tonight.

At least Schmaltz can control the puck. Give him a try with Toews. Move Motte back to the 3rd line.

Toews is a Hawks legend so I hope fans don't hold 10.5 over his head.

I wish Stan had found a way to keep Saad. I know that's old news but he was a big bodied guy who could play the puck possession game. Hossa aging now.

I like Schmaltz but he still seems more like a perimeter player to me.

 

[piteus]

Even the years Toews scored his usual he started slow.

This team with an average PK is pretty damn good. We got a point. On to the next one.

We're possibly undefeated with an average penalty kill. I saw a glimmer of hope on the 4 minute double minor tonight. We actually pressured the puck and got into the passing lanes. Then I realized it was against Calgary. I think we're improving ... but who really knows until the next game.

 

[JustABlackhawksFan]

On another note, Anisimov is leading the league in points at the moment. Tied with 3 other players, but still.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Even the years Toews scored his usual he started slow.

This team with an average PK is pretty damn good. We got a point. On to the next one.

Exactly. Get a PK that is just middle of the pack and the start to this season is WAY different.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

On another note, Anisimov is leading the league in points at the moment. Tied with 3 other players, but still.

Not bad for a 3C.

 

[featherhawk]

It's not effort. Toews' is trying. Look ... the guy still needs to produce, but his line isn't helping. Motte was awful tonight ... and Panik didn't do much either.

Did you see Toews control the puck in the offensive zone at start of the 3rd period when he had Panarin with him? He can't do crap with the forwards he has around him. I know ... he's paid $10.5mn so it's partly his fault for the surround cast, but man ... his linemates were really bad tonight.

At least Schmaltz can control the puck. Give him a try with Toews. Move Motte back to the 3rd line.

agreed, Motte was playing over his head and actually he is better suited to play with kruger and Hossa....and guess what schmaltz is better suited to play with Toews and Panik....give the kid a shot up there.

schmaltz-Toews-panik
Party
motte-kruger-hossa
macniel-moose-hartman

 

[piteus]

Toews is a Hawks legend so I hope fans don't hold 10.5 over his head.

I wish Stan had found a way to keep Saad. I know that's old news but he was a big bodied guy who could play the puck possession game. Hossa aging now.

I like Schmaltz but he still seems more like a perimeter player to me.

When you take the money and a massive percentage of the salary cap, you also have to take accountability. It's fair game. But to say Toews' outright sucks is wrong. He's trying, but he's linemates are pretty bad. But it's absolutely to okay to say he's not playing to his salary.

Forget Saad and Hossa. Look forward ... look for solutions. Toews needs someone who can hold the puck. Panik and Motte aren't those type of players. You can't have both of them playing with Toews ... not on the first line when they are playing against skilled puck handlers. We have to try Schmaltz. Maybe he can hold the puck with Toews ... with Panik throwing his weight around.

 

[featherhawk]

Exactly. Get a PK that is just middle of the pack and the start to this season is WAY different.

and stop taking stupid penalties, I would have thought that trend would have been better seeing that Mucker was traded to the Habs but for christ sake its been way worse....

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Observations after just returning from the game.

Team wasn't ready to play, outshot at one point in the 1st 8-0, on home ice. Inexcusable

No grit, no where. Hits at one point were like 35 -8 Flames. Many, many, many times guys passed on rubbing a guy out. Hartman especially disappointing in that aspect tonight at least.

Flames seemed open all the time, Hawks could find no open ice to work with and when they did, they couldn't control the puck.

19 has a vision issue related to his concussions, IMO. He had many great looks where it seemed like he didn't know that he was in a prime scoring area. Another time Hossa was busting down left wing, Toews backhand side and 19 didn't see him and went parallel across blue line to make Hossa offside instead of dishing an area backhand pass to spring him.

Crawford saved the day and 51 had a better game than he has lately.

Signing off before 5:30 wakeup.

 

[featherhawk]

people have to understand that T&K got that 10.5 deal not only as a result of what they could do going forward but IMO it had more to do with that they did to bring the hawks and hockey back to life in Chicago...

they got paid a significant portion of that money from what they did since they both started with the club.

Its a shame that they both could not see through the agents $$ in his eyes enough to realize that $9 M each would have BEEN OK for the deal in order to keep a competitive roster going forward........

alas they did not and got blinded.....
tis the perils of success to a large extent

 

[piteus]

and stop taking stupid penalties, I would have thought that trend would have been better seeing that Mucker was traded to the Habs but for christ sake its been way worse....

What bothered me tonight ... I think Calgary outhit us 35-11 or something close to that. And we took 5 penalties to their 2 (1 if you exclude OT). So we were obviously playing passive due to our PK and we still took more penalties. That's unacceptable. I don't mind penalties when we're aggressive, but not like this.

 

[Easton Modano Curve]

people have to understand that T&K got that 10.5 deal not only as a result of what they could do going forward but IMO it had more to do with that they did to bring the hawks and hockey back to life in Chicago...

they got paid a significant portion of that money from what they did since they both started with the club.

Its a shame that they both could not see through the agents $$ in his eyes enough to realize that $9 M each would have BEEN OK for the deal in order to keep a competitive roster going forward........

alas they did not and got blinded.....
tis the perils of success to a large extent

Two franchise players winning multiple cups before their "big" contract was unprecedented in the salary cap era. The Hawks had to sign them...especially given the history with the Wirtz family.

I honestly don't know how much these guys know about the cap and the implications. I can't even fathom being that rich, but leaving $10+ million on the table, regardless of your wealth, is a lot of money to give up.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Two franchise players winning multiple cups before their "big" contract was unprecedented in the salary cap era. The Hawks had to sign them...especially given the history with the Wirtz family.

I honestly don't know how much these guys know about the cap and the implications. I can't even fathom being that rich, but leaving $10+ million on the table, regardless of your wealth, is a lot of money to give up.

Both of them are making about $900,000 more per year than Matthew Dellavedova will be making this year. Hockey players get nowhere close to what they're worth compared to athletes in other major sports.

As a fan, I want Hawks players to take as little money as possible in order to increase the Hawks' chances of having the best team in the league. However, as a rational human, I don't think I can ever fault a hockey player for asking for a slightly higher salary. No matter what they get, it's probably not enough- at least not compared to a similarly skilled player in a different sport.

 

[piteus]

Both of them are making about $900,000 more per year than Matthew Dellavedova will be making this year. Hockey players get nowhere close to what they're worth compared to athletes in other major sports.

As a fan, I want Hawks players to take as little money as possible in order to increase the Hawks' chances of having the best team in the league. However, as a rational human, I don't think I can ever fault a hockey player for asking for a slightly higher salary. No matter what they get, it's probably not enough- at least not compared to a similarly skilled player in a different sport.

You're absolutely right. But with more money, comes more pressure. This is the rule of NYC. You want to get paid, then you better be able to handle the spotlight. I want every player to get paid what their worth. But I don't like fans separating salary vs. performance (especially in a capped sport). There is a high correlation to the team's performance.

Regarding Kane, he's used to living under the media microscope. I wonder how Toews is taking the criticism? Throughout his career, he hasn't been scrutinized much. This must be a new experience.

 

[Blackhawks]

Time for Q to give Toews one game of rest, clearly he is exhausted from all the hard work he put in this off season.