C Theodor Niederbach - Frölunda HC, SWE JRs (2020, 51st, DET)

[Henkka]

Maybe we all should update our model for the best possible 1st line center. Maybe it's not that creative one.

2010 - Toews
2011 - Bergeron
2012 - Kopitar
2013 - Toews
2014 - Kopitar
2015 - Toews
2016 - Crosby
2017 - Crosby
2018 - Bäckström/Kuznetsov
2019 - ROR
2020 - Point

Toews/Bergeron/ROR/Point, = over half of the latest Cups have gone these do-it-all guys, instead of playmakers. And as great playmakers, all Crosby, Kopitar, Bäckström also play strong defence.

 

[Henkka]

Personally I think there's a bit of a problem in swedish hockey that pushes a lot of forwards towards the defensively reliable mold of player that doesn't take risks offensively.

Finland is doing the same. And Chicago Blackhawks was constructed mostly the same. Tampa Bay's best offensive weapon was a winger (Kucherov).

Maybe it's just winning hockey evolving on the direction, where skill is on the wing and centers are strong defensively. Centers lack points, but reduce opposite scoring = are most important and effective on the unit, but you don't see it from individual point-scoring.

That's how Sovjet Union teams were constructed already decades ago.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Finland is doing the same. And Chicago Blackhawks was constructed mostly the same. Tampa Bay's best offensive weapon was a winger (Kucherov).

Maybe it's just hockey evolving on the direction, where skill is on the wing and center are strong defensively. That's how Sovjet Union teams were already decades ago.

If Sweden was consistently creating great two-way centers and creative wingers I would not mind it, but I think forward development has been an issue. Luckily it might be turning around just in time, but it was looking a bit dark for a while trying to anticipate who would take over after the Sedins and Zetterberg.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

If Sweden was consistently creating great two-way centers and creative wingers I would not mind it, but I think forward development has been an issue. Luckily it might be turning around just in time, but it was looking a bit dark for a while trying to anticipate who would take over after the Sedins and Zetterberg.

In the mid 2000s, most definitely. Looking at the last 3 drafts the number of Swedish defensemen has definitely been higher than forwards in the first two rounds, but I think starting with the 2020 draft we'll see a reversal as we move forward (no pun intended).

2018: 5 forwards from Sweden picked. 6 if you count Dominik Bokk (Germany) who played there in his draft year. 15 players from Sweden picked between the first two rounds.
2019: 4 forwards from 9 players picked from Sweden.
2020: 6 forwards from 9 players picked from Sweden.

 

[Havre]

"Do it all guys" is obviously fine. And I don't mind players being brought up in a culture where the defensive aspect matters, but I do strongly believe that letting kids be adventurous early in the career for then to develop the defensive side as they get a bit older makes a lot more sense than the other way around.

Not that I think the defensive side is the issue here. As others have pointed out I think it is more a question of a team that is somewhat settled already. Not that I have checked if there are other new players that have been included lately - so I could be wrong.

Hopefully he will become just even more motivated. Absolutely convinced he will get a shot in NA if he stays healthy regardless of how much he plays U-hockey for Sweden.

 

[OiledUp]

Maybe we all should update our model for the best possible 1st line center. Maybe it's not that creative one.

2010 - Toews
2011 - Bergeron
2012 - Kopitar
2013 - Toews
2014 - Kopitar
2015 - Toews
2016 - Crosby
2017 - Crosby
2018 - Bäckström/Kuznetsov
2019 - ROR
2020 - Point

Toews/Bergeron/ROR/Point, = over half of the latest Cups have gone these do-it-all guys, instead of playmakers. And as great playmakers, all Crosby, Kopitar, Bäckström also play strong defence.

All of those guys outside of ROR were dominant players offensively as juniors. Nothing wrong with playing strong two way hockey but one of those two ways are directed towards the offensive end and unless your offense is very high end at the junior level you're unlikely to bring enough offense to be an actual #1/2C at the highest level.

Thing with Niederbach, if we're to bring it back on topic, is that he's not some all offense cheating defensively kind of guy. He's probably the best bet to end up an actual high end two way center out of all the guys in question for the tournament. Yes he plays with some risk and currently lacks physique but this is juniors, he’s absolutely more than good enough to make the WJCs but sadly if he does, which seems unlikely, it's probably as a winger. Imo that is an issue for swedish hockey both right now and going forward.

 

[KRM]

 

[VictorLustig]

Now selected for the U20 NT.

 

[drw02]

centering 2nd line and getting PP1 opportunity

 

[newfy]

centering 2nd line and getting PP1 opportunity

Super weird they didnt invite him in the first place and now theyre playing him in what seems like a really big role potentially. I dont know if playing him in that spot means they like him after camp and want to play him higher in the line up or theyre trying him out where he either can play top 6/pp1 or hes not gonna be on the team

Dont know what to think about that

 

[theslatcher]

With Mursak not playing due to an illness, Niederbach will take his spot between Hjalmarsson, & Raymond.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Roger Rönnberg, the coach of Frölunda said that Niederbach have grit and the skills and that its an unusual combo. A new Peter Forsberg on the rise?

 

[simonedvinsson]

Roger Rönnberg, the coach of Frölunda said that Niederbach have grit and the skills and that its an unusual combo. A new Peter Forsberg on the rise?

That’s not a comparison I’d make.

Honestly, his playing style reminds me more of Yzerman. Stylistic comparison only! Not saying he will captain the Red Wings to three Stanley Cups or post Gretzky-Lemieux numbers or anything of that nature. Rather, I suspect he will lead us to five cups and wreck Gretzky’s single season record, but I digress... Forsberg was a power forward, while Niederbach’s grit is more similar to that Yzer-intensity. Small, fearless, determined.

 

[VictorLustig]

He's been getting good minutes lately. Played on the PP yesterday. Maybe a sign of him playing with Frölunda instead of going to the WJC? Bet Rönnberg and Co would be informed of that in advance.

 

[theslatcher]

He's been getting good minutes lately. Played on the PP yesterday. Maybe a sign of him playing with Frölunda instead of going to the WJC? Bet Rönnberg and Co would be informed of that in advance.

Good and good minutes, prior to yesterday he had a couple of 4th line games under his belt, and yesterday he took Mursak's spot as he was ill. His ES TOI went up by around 2 minutes(which still put him around the bottom), so the primary rise in TOI was from the PP(where he also took Mursak's spot). Add in that Rönnberg likes the kid and I don't think it's indicative of anything

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

TIL it's "Neederbosh", not Bach like the composer.

 

[theslatcher]

TIL it's "Neederbosh", not Bach like the composer.

Well, Niederbash, not sure where you're hearing the o.

 

[VictorLustig]

It's obviously 'Bach' like the composer. This announcer got it wrong.

 

[Aahlstroem]

It's obviously 'Bach' like the composer. This announcer got it wrong.

He got Seider wrong as well that game. He's not good with german it seems.

 

[Ricelund]

Burke says Hakan Andersson told him people are going to be laughing in a few years about the Wings being able to draft Niederbach in the second round. (1:10:41)

 

[covfefe]

Burke says Hakan Andersson told him people are going to be laughing in a few years about the Wings being able to draft Niederbach in the second round. (1:10:41)

I wouldn’t be surprised, had him at 20 and even that felt low. Luckily my team passed on him twice in the second round...

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Burke says Hakan Andersson told him people are going to be laughing in a few years about the Wings being able to draft Niederbach in the second round. (1:10:41)

Everybody's favorite prospect evaluator speaks

 

[OiledUp]

WJC coming out party incoming...

 

[raymond23]

WJC coming out party incoming...

That would be a nice Christmas gift