C Mitchell Marner - London Knights, OHL (2015, 4th, TOR) II

[Atomos2]

Datsyuk and Zetterberg were established before Babcock took over. Z played much bigger than he is (now has a destroyed back) and if Marner is ever half the player Datsyuk is, you got a real gem this draft. Seriously, look at how he treated Filppula, Hudler, Tatar, and Nyquist. And look at the fact that he would rather play a guy like Luke (no hands) Glendening on the top line over younger players.

Funny you mention this. Look what this person said about Marner:

Director of NHL Central Scouting Dan Marr:
“High end skill set with puck handling and playmaking ability. Plays bigger than his size and is not afraid to get involved in traffic or battle for pucks. He is an excellent skater with very good quickness and agility. He possesses some of the quickest hands in this year's draft class.”

http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospectdetail.htm?dpid=98620&tab=scr

 

[Atomos2]

I hope you realize it cuts both ways, and with a little deductive reasoning it's obvious the Leafs were trying to set up a backup plan in the case that Marner was picked 3rd. There is much less to go on that they were looking to trade down regardless beyond the opinions of people who don't seem to understand that Marner was Hunters guy from the start.



“High end skill set with puck handling and playmaking ability. Plays bigger than his size and is not afraid to get involved in traffic or battle for pucks. He is an excellent skater with very good quickness and agility. He possesses some of the quickest hands in this year’s draft class.– Dan Marr, Chief Scout, NHL Central Scouting"

Admit it, you don't even know who Marner is.

Beat me to it. Well done Cotton.

 

[Frankie41987]

“High end skill set with puck handling and playmaking ability. Plays bigger than his size and is not afraid to get involved in traffic or battle for pucks. He is an excellent skater with very good quickness and agility. He possesses some of the quickest hands in this year’s draft class.– Dan Marr, Chief Scout, NHL Central Scouting"

Admit it, you don't even know who Marner is.

He was simply stating that Babcock had a preference for bigger players (whether that's true or not is a different story) I don't think at all that was a knock on Marner. I think Marner is a fantastic prospect but it's really tiring that we can't have a discussion on him without any and every detail being picked apart and labeled as heresy.

 

[WTFMAN99]

He was simply stating that Babcock had a preference for bigger players (whether that's true or not is a different story) I don't think at all that was a knock on Marner. I think Marner is a fantastic prospect but it's really tiring that we can't have a discussion on him without any and every detail being picked apart and labeled as heresy.

I think he's a great prospect who is not small (he's 5'11) - could he put on more weight? Sure, but he's going back to Jr, so he'll have this summer, next season, and another summer to mature more physically.

 

[Stephen]

Why rush him? Why put him in a losing environment? No way he makes your team this year. He is 18 years old, let him stew a little, and work on his weaker points.

This is a legit point of view, but I'd also wait till camp to see if he might be the kind of player and person who can help change a losing environment from day one.

 

[GTA]

I think he's a great prospect who is not small (he's 5'11) - could he put on more weight? Sure, but he's going back to Jr, so he'll have this summer, next season, and another summer to mature more physically.

5'11 is small. The average forward is 6'1. Looking at it on the other side, is 6'3 big?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Maybe they weren't...

That's a good possibility. 3 years ago Tatar was 21, Nyqiust 22. I doubt back then they were the same players they are today.

Plus Detroit is notorious for over ripening prospects. Maybe Babcock was only following the mandate beset upon him by Wings management.

I've been worried about this since we hired Babcock, because the guy seems like an awful developmental/rebuild coach. He's going to have to adapt and change his coaching style to fit the rebuild, but from the looks of whats already unfolding (He wants to keep Dion, Bozak staying), it looks like nothings changed yet.

It's really only Dion Babcock has commented on as wanting to work with. He hasn't said anything about Bozak or Lupul. Those two still being here is because of a lack of market for them.

 

[WTFMAN99]

5'11 is small. The average forward is 6'1. Looking at it on the other side, is 6'3 big?

It is all relative though, sure there a bunch of bottom 6 guys who are big, but they can't play...at least well. So do a bunch of big dumb guys like John Scott bump the average up a bit (I know it is one guy, but it is an example, there are others), yes a bit.

Look at the top 6 in the finals, Killorn and Toews were the biggest at 6'2. Rest were 5'11-6'0

I would say if you have a top 6 forward and they are 6'3, they are big. Size and skill that can play the game is rare, and that would definitely be a big forward.

There is also an outside chance Marner hits 6'1, his brother hit a growth spurt and went to 6'2-6'3.

If Marner works on his legs and core, and you give him a bigger winger, then his size will be fine. Crosby, Giroux, Zetterberg, Datsyuk are great examples of players he should look to emulate.

 

[Cotton]

He was simply stating that Babcock had a preference for bigger players (whether that's true or not is a different story) I don't think at all that was a knock on Marner. I think Marner is a fantastic prospect but it's really tiring that we can't have a discussion on him without any and every detail being picked apart and labeled as heresy.

It wasn't a discussion, it was "don't expect him to succeed".

He then said thinks that were not true, he was then corrected, that's not "picking apart".

I understand he has issues with Babcock, and that's the root of his issues, but Marner was the 4th overall pick who has elite talent and is known for playing bigger then he is, and in all three zones. He's also not done growing, but even if he tops out as a 5'11 180lbs player he's still an elite player who's game is similar to a Giroux or Gilmour, or a Sam Bennett, I doubt he'll have issues under Babcock.

5'11 is small. The average forward is 6'1. Looking at it on the other side, is 6'3 big?

Height doesn't really matter in the big/small argument, unless your a Chara in which your reach can be a huge advantage. Weight is what matters, and he'll always be considered small because of that, but at 180-190 he'll be a solid player who's size wont be a concern.

Look at someone like Tootoo who played most of his career at 200lbs to 205lbs at 5'9.

 

[snizzbone*]

Someone should average out the heights of actual top six forwards. I bet its lower than it is compared to bottom six forwards.

 

[SuperSaiyanBeastmode]

marner's eliteprospects description hypes me up every time I read it(I read it too much)

A dynamic offensive forward that backchecks hard and establishes his presence through playing smart, puck-possession hockey. A very quick skater gifted with great hands and hockey sense. Battles hard in all three zones and shows a willingness to do whatever it takes to get the puck to the back of the net; an unselfish player. Embodies the definition of a dynamic number-generating machine who makes the players around him better

 

[Pi]

marner's eliteprospects description hypes me up every time I read it(I read it too much)

Basically Anti-Kessel.

 

[con310*]

Ever heard of an unstoppable force vs immovable object? Well, the leafs fans will soon learn Babcock's hate for smallish skilled forwards. Don't expect Babcock to do this kid any favors, don't expect him to start in the top six, and don't expect him to succeed.

People expect him to succeed as they should, You don't for another reason that most people probably already know. Tatar and Nyquist have no one to blame but themselves for their failures.

 

[smpo11]

Datsyuk - 5'11 - 194
Zetterberg - 5'11 -195
Nyqvust - 5'11 - 185
Hudler - 5'10 - 186
Tatar - 5'10 - 186

Babcock seemed to like those guys a little.

 

[Shaman464]

Datsyuk - 5'11 - 194
Zetterberg - 5'11 -195
Nyqvust - 5'11 - 185
Hudler - 5'10 - 186
Tatar - 5'10 - 186

Babcock seemed to like those guys a little.

These players at different points were in his dog house. Wonder why Hudler went from an unknown middle 6 player to a star in Calgary? And Nyquist and Tatar were sat for players the likes of Dan Cleary, Todd Bertuzzi and Mikael Samuelsson. Too many Toronto fans are pretending they know about Babcock, well newsflash, what I am saying is literally what 99% of Wings fan will tell you.

 

[Shwaguy*]

Yeah I'm not sure why people are saying he had a more impressive draft season then Tavares and Stamkos

Wasn't Stamkos on an awful Sarnia team, yet still scored those ridiculous totals? Marner had an unreal season, but he was on a stacked team.

Tavares however, put up insane numbers in the OHL as a whole, but besides being a better goal scorer (which is obvious), I'd say him and Marner had pretty equally impressive draft seasons (except Tavares was a 3rd year OHL player, Marner only a 2nd). I think the main difference is that Marner is not as prolific of a goal scorer as they are.

London was far from Stacked. Especially after the trade deadline. They were rebuilding last year. You just think they were stacked because they are London

Dvorak and Domi were the only other decent players on the team past the trade deadline and Domi brought Marner's game down. He played better when he centred the first line with Rupert.

Now this year? London is STACKED. But still you can't really take anything away from Marner for that considering he will be by far the best player on his team and is probably the leading candidate to be the best player in the entire CHL next season (Even if Matthews is in Everett I'd be pretty surprised if his Draft year is better than Marner's Draft+1)

 

[Shwaguy*]

These players at different points were in his dog house. Wonder why Hudler went from an unknown middle 6 player to a star in Calgary? And Nyquist and Tatar were sat for players the likes of Dan Cleary, Todd Bertuzzi and Mikael Samuelsson. Too many Toronto fans are pretending they know about Babcock, well newsflash, what I am saying is literally what 99% of Wings fan will tell you.

Bab's never coached a rebuilding team either. It's more or less uncharted waters. It's just we know he has an elite system.

None of those players were all that close to the calibre of player Marner is/should become either.

 

[Shaman464]

Bab's never coached a rebuilding team either. It's more or less uncharted waters. It's just we know he has an elite system.

None of those players were all that close to the calibre of player Marner is/should become either.

When Marner is a 30 goal scorer, is top 10 in scoring, or breaks 40 assists we will talk. Until then, he's an 18 year old that has had some success in the OHL. And Babcock took a bottom feeder Ducks team to the Stanley Cup playoffs, least you forget.

 

[TMLegend]

The most overrated prospect on HFboards, bar none. The hype machine is out of control with this guy. It honestly seems like Marner has more hype than Connor McDavid based on the things I've read since he was drafted.

Expectations need to be toned down dramatically. Expecting Giroux/Kane hybrid is nuts for a 4th overall pick. Let's hope he becomes a top-6 forward, and work from there considering the best 4th overall pick in the last 10 years is Nicklas Backstrom.

 

[hamzarocks]

The most overrated prospect on HFboards, bar none. The hype machine is out of control with this guy. It honestly seems like Marner has more hype than Connor McDavid based on the things I've read since he was drafted.

Expectations need to be toned down dramatically. Expecting Giroux/Kane hybrid is nuts for a 4th overall pick. Let's hope he becomes a top-6 forward, and work from there considering the best 4th overall pick in the last 10 years is Nicklas Backstrom.

Backstrom is about the same as both of those guys, also this was a very stacked draft(or so i kept on hearing throughout the year), being a 4th overall here means more than original drafts, anyway he has put up numbers better than a lot of 1st overall picks, he has elite potential, but of course if this was hanifin that we were talking about you would be saying he is the next great defense men,

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Saw that the Leafs signed Dermott. Is there some reason they signed him but not Marner yet?

The most overrated prospect on HFboards, bar none. The hype machine is out of control with this guy. It honestly seems like Marner has more hype than Connor McDavid based on the things I've read since he was drafted.

Expectations need to be toned down dramatically. Expecting Giroux/Kane hybrid is nuts for a 4th overall pick. Let's hope he becomes a top-6 forward, and work from there considering the best 4th overall pick in the last 10 years is Nicklas Backstrom.

Weird that when you were wanting the Leafs to draft Hanifin you were carrying on about him being an elite #1 dman - yet for Marner you just hope he's a top 6 forward.

 

[TMLegend]

Saw that the Leafs signed Dermott. Is there some reason they signed him but not Marner yet?



Weird that when you were wanting the Leafs to draft Hanifin you were carrying on about him being an elite #1 dman - yet for Marner you just hope he's a top 6 forward.

I expect he'll be a dynamic first line winger. I'm just saying considering recent trends with 4th overall picks you shouldn't be expecting franchise or generational players.

Hanifin is irrelevant now, the Leafs passed on him for Marner, that's that. I'm over it, it's time for posters to get over it to now when they call me out over my username. It wasn't just Hanifin I wanted over Marner either, I wanted Strome as well.

 

[HockeyRobinson]

The most overrated prospect on HFboards, bar none. The hype machine is out of control with this guy. It honestly seems like Marner has more hype than Connor McDavid based on the things I've read since he was drafted.

Expectations need to be toned down dramatically. Expecting Giroux/Kane hybrid is nuts for a 4th overall pick. Let's hope he becomes a top-6 forward, and work from there considering the best 4th overall pick in the last 10 years is Nicklas Backstrom.

Preface: I'm a non-Toronto fan..

He's the real deal. His ceiling is Giroux/Kane and thats not overrating him, thats stating that his production, execution, skills, and work ethic at this age and on this trajectory equates to a very high potential.

I won't go as far as saying he will be Claude Giroux or he will be Patty Kane because thats just presumptuous. No one can say for certain who will do what, but his pedigree and comparables at the same age point to a very high ceiling.

4th overall is the product of Jack Eichel and Connor McDavid. You could put those two in any draft in the last 10 years and all of the sudden in 2009 you're saying, "John Tavares, he's way overhyped.. this kid just went #3/#4. No way he turns out to be the next Bryan Trottier."

 

[Morgs]

I expect he'll be a dynamic first line winger. I'm just saying considering recent trends with 4th overall picks you shouldn't be expecting franchise or generational players.

Hanifin is irrelevant now, the Leafs passed on him for Marner, that's that. I'm over it, it's time for posters to get over it to now when they call me out over my username. It wasn't just Hanifin I wanted over Marner either, I wanted Strome as well.

2013 Seth Jones, 2010 Ryan Johansen, 2008 Alex Pietrangelo, 2006 Nick Backstrom. Yeah I'm not expecting a franchise player. Smh

AND he easily could have been the third overall pick. All i've heard is that this could be the deepest draft since 2003 and the Leafs believe they got the third best player from it.

 

[Shwaguy*]

Saw that the Leafs signed Dermott. Is there some reason they signed him but not Marner yet?



Weird that when you were wanting the Leafs to draft Hanifin you were carrying on about him being an elite #1 dman - yet for Marner you just hope he's a top 6 forward.

Probably more to negotiate over Bonuses.

Nylander didn't sign his ELC until August 18th last year as a frame of reference.