OKG thinks Kylington is Norris material. Nothing else is good enough.
Guys who established their NHL careers on the Flames, like Kylington, Bennett, Dube, etc, aside, it's classic appeal to ignorance, and circular logic. Philips never being given the very vague "chance" can never be proven false, therefore it's true. How many games would this be? Enough games. How many is enough? Enough to prove he deserved it. It's very bad faith, wanting to have it both ways as well.
I got to watch Phillips live in Montreal. He was not good. Did not look like an NHLer. At that time the Flames still had hopes to compete. Pelletier looked better in his opportunity and snagged a spot.
The evil, and abusive Darryl very rationally explained his method of bringing prospects along, and specifically Pelletier. But Valji and Francis whipped up such a frenzy because they wanted shiny new toys, twisting a young player's personal journey to pro hockey for their own clickbait, and Darryl's ill-advised scoresheet jab, which was very clearly directed at the media, and not Pelletier, was gasoline on the blaze, no going back. The Flames hate prospects, and small players.
Making the NHL is impossibly hard, and the reality is cruel and harsh, but somehow the Calgary Flames didn't want the best for the hometown kid.
Sutter said valimaki wasn’t an nhl dman… proceeded to play like a top 4d almost immediately after he left the team.
Provide the quote where he said Valimaki wasn't an NHL defenceman. I'm sure you wouldn't be twisting his words when he said Valimaki had "growing up to do," or any of the numerous times where he said being an nhl defenseman is tough and Valimaki's preparation needed work. I'm sure Sutter didnt say he'd never make an Nhl d-man. Sorry. The fact is Valimaki was a young d-man stuck behind and not playing like he belonged in a deep defence corps. He went to a bottom feeder and was given top 4 minutes right away and looked good in a short run.
Eerily similar situation though. Phillips is the same age as St. Louis was when the Flames gave up on him.
Yeah, however St Louis was an undrafted college free agent that literally nobody wanted, in an era where there was a legit stigma against very small players. With no draft or nhl pedigree and a buffoon like Button as gm, who didnt know anything about St Louis, they got rid of him. Philips was drafted and developed by the flames, in an era much more forgiving to small players, but yes Philips is the smallest of the small. I'm more inclined to believe they know what they have in him. Nothing is a safe bet in the nhl though, obviously.
flamesnation.ca
Indeed. Who's that on? I guess the player doesnt ever need to pull his own head out of his ass. All I see there is constructive criticism(which you'd call muckraking) qualified by saying he hasn't put it all together yet. He's then handed the minutes by a team in which he couldn't possibly not make the top 4 and excelled for a while. What's the problem? Darryl said time and time again there's only so many spots on a team supposedly trying to make a run.Let’s talk about Juuso Valimaki
It's easy to get excited about Calgary Flames defenseman Juuso Valimak...
“There’s a whole package there that has to come together and i think it will over time, but you have to look at the steps. You can’t just look at he was this or he’s that, it’s where he’s going to fit in, what his role’s going to be, how he can be effective in the league, working on his skillset – the skating part of it, the shooting part of it, the passing part of it – they’re all areas that are in that 75-80%. It’s not close to being all the way there yet.”
What is that implying if it’s saying he’s not up to snuff for nhl play? Proceeded to get sent down soon enough after these quotes and his confidence gradually shattered and play degraded with the organization. Ofc that won’t be good enough for you, if the words aren’t explicit it’s twisting words lol. The actions and deployment the team had towards him need not apply either.
He was right though, the package came together… just not under his tenure.
Valimaki was playing nhl minutes before sutter came along and was doing well… valiamki was playing nhl minutes after he left the flames and did well. The “constructive criticism” is a load of bullshit, he wasn’t 70-80% there. He was a f***ing solid nhl dman who’s confidence was wrecked for no reason. No means was he perfect, but he was putting in a perfectly fine 16 mins a night under an inept Geoff ward and had 8 pts in 24 games. Not earth shattering, but a solid asset!
A coach saying a 22 year old defenceman hasn't put it all together yet is total bullshit? That was his evaluation at the time! The fact is Valimaki didn't look good the last 2 years. Darryl was asked again and again about him, and he always said his preparation is lacking. When he sent sent him down he said all he wanted was for him to get games. Realistically the jury is still out on Valimaki's viability in the NHL. You'd prefer to devour Francis/Valji fanfiction and that's on you.
“His prep was lacking”
You're right but still
He was a sophomore with 73 NHL games total over 3 years who had finished a conditioning stint in Finland coming back from a severe injury. Treliving's prized draft pick whom he wouldn't include in any deals for players the franchise actually needed. Instead he fills out the defence with guys who Valimaki couldn't overtake, and turns him over to a coach who actually knows what he's doing with NHL defensemen, and said coach deems him a bit lacking.
You can say that about players from every organization in the league.
Fixed your post. In Darryl Sutter's eyes unless he was the 2nd coming of Wayne Gretzky he was never going to get a fair opportunity to prove himself playing for the Flames. Too many quality wingers such as Nick and Brett Ritchie ahead of him.
Yeah but that's not true. Kylington out played him and took his spot, from the AHL. Was he better than Zadorov....debatable. Are the Coyotes actually an NHL team....debatable.
Gee thanks. It was moreso just a practical matter. Who was Philips taking a spot from in the top 6? What role was he playing in the bottom 6? If you think that sort of evaluation is impossible without him playing in the NHL for an extended period, I don't know what to tell you. Sutter wasn't the only Flames coach to cut him.
I'm pretty sure that if he watched any sort of media or follows this board particularly, his confidence was trashed before Sutter even started. He wasn't solid, he didn't play well and he lost his spot to the hungrier competition. The injury really wrecked any sort of potential value.
Most of those guys had plenty of chances with the Flames.
